Beyond Visual Range engagement

[Basher11]

I have finnaly get everything sorted with the F-22 Vs F-22. It's all about eh AIM-120C missile. I can lock on to a F-22 at a range up to some 39nm no problem with that. Whether the missile hits or misses I don't care at this stage.

 

In order to let the AI F-22 get a bigger signature, I replaced my F-22 with a MiG-29 at least the fulcrum is not stealth. The F-22 still fires upon me with AIM-120C but at a range of some 8nm!

 

How does the AI aircraft decide when to fire using a BVR missile?

[Emp_Palpatine]

AFAIK, it seems that the AI does not use BVR.

Apparently, the fire their BVR missiles when in visual range (wich is set, for the AI, somewhere near 8 nm). But I'm not sure of that, as i've been several time killed by bvr missiles, according to the log, fired from planes I did not see.

[+Fubar512]

The trick is to increase the maximum visible range value of evey non-stealthy bird by 10,000 meters. I even gone as far as adding 15,000 to the values of larger aircraft (bombers & transports), and witnessed my AI F-14A wingmen engaging them at extreme range with AIM-54s.

[Basher11]

Thanks both of you! I thought the same too, I mean the visual range though it doesn't make much sense to me specially when weather is seup as Broken Clouds where visibility is definitely an issue.

 

Fubar, just you mentioned AIM-54, the C model does the job admirably. Watching it drop off from the rail before its booster fires. Doesn't look natural when F-22 fires one of its AIM-120C from its internal weapon bay wehn the missile lights up the moment it is released. Gonna to use the same data to tweak the AIM-120C for the F-22!

 

Go to check out the BVR now. Report back later!

[Basher11]

Changed MaxVisibleDistance=64820.0 (=35nm) for the F-15 in WoE.

 

My F-15 head-on against AI F-15. This parameter controls the AI engage action seemingly because I noticed that the AI aircraft jinked as teh separation touches onto 35nm. But the AI didn't fire until both of us were 25nm apart. I checked the AIM-120C data from the weapon editor. Apparently the AI fires accoridng to the Seeker Range parameter rather than the Maximum Launch Range.

 

Anyway, good to have this one sorted.

[+Fubar512]

Semi-active radar homing missiles, and beam-riders (early SAMs) should have a seeker detection range at least equal to their maximum range, if not slightly greater.

[Basher11]

Fubar:

 

I've found out something: I changed the Azimuth limit to 360 degree and the AI engage right away even we were 60nm apart. I think there are a few parameters which control the AI firing behaviour. Let me go and investigae I 'll report back later.

[Murphy'S]

Fubar:

 

I've found out something: I changed the Azimuth limit to 360 degree and the AI engage right away even we were 60nm apart. I think there are a few parameters which control the AI firing behaviour. Let me go and investigae I 'll report back later.

 

where do you this parameter?

[+Fubar512]

Setting the radar's azimuth limit to 360 degrees imbues that aircraft with what amounts to a "hemispheric" scanning ability.

[Basher11]

I have the findings.

 

I made the AIM-120C to have Azimuth=360 degree and Gimble limit=360 degree. This will unlock the missile maximum launch range. In the case of AIM-120C, AI will engage target at 78km roughly 35nm provided the following setup has been done:

 

For the target aircraft, chnage its Data ini file parameter MaxVisibleDistance to any values as large as you can.

 

This tweak is not rendering the real avionics but enable AI aircrafts to engage at a realistic distance. Basically for BVR combat not dogfighting.

[Stick]

Doesnt maxvisibledistance govern the distance at which the aircraft in question is visble to other aircraft?

Little confused, and i may be completely wrong

[Murphy'S]

I have the findings.

 

I made the AIM-120C to have Azimuth=360 degree and Gimble limit=360 degree. This will unlock the missile maximum launch range. In the case of AIM-120C, AI will engage target at 78km roughly 35nm provided the following setup has been done:

 

For the target aircraft, chnage its Data ini file parameter MaxVisibleDistance to any values as large as you can.

 

This tweak is not rendering the real avionics but enable AI aircrafts to engage at a realistic distance. Basically for BVR combat not dogfighting.

 

what is th real parameter that will make the ai to engage in BVR? the missile azimuth limit or the maxviewdistance?

[Basher11]

what is th real parameter that will make the ai to engage in BVR? the missile azimuth limit or the maxviewdistance?

To get the AI to "engage" is the maxviewdistance. To triiger the launch, azimuth must be provided with the cheated value.

[Canadair]

Doesnt maxvisibledistance govern the distance at which the aircraft in question is visble to other aircraft?

Little confused, and i may be completely wrong

 

Yes it does. that setting is related to AI capabilities to spot other planes. I raised the value to 12000 to all planes.

My procedure for BVR is:

Lock the target on radar. Press CTRL-R to enage it visually, even if, of course I can't see it. Attack it or order to the wingmen to attack my target. They will launche AHM and SAHM; sadly so will do the enemy planes. Actually the engagements BVR are fast and frenetic and still quite tactical at times.

Fubar what do you think of 12000 as visability, do you sugggst a difeerent value?

 

Doesnt maxvisibledistance govern the distance at which the aircraft in question is visble to other aircraft?

Little confused, and i may be completely wrong

 

Yes it does. that setting is related to AI capabilities to spot other planes. I raised the value to 12000 to all planes.

My procedure for BVR is:

Lock the target on radar. Press CTRL-R to enage it visually, even if, of course I can't see it. Attack it or order to the wingmen to attack my target. They will launche AHM and SAHM; sadly so will do the enemy planes. Actually the engagements BVR are fast and frenetic and still quite tactical at times.

Fubar what do you think of 12000 as visability, do you sugggst a difeerent value?

[Basher11]

Think about it: diffrent missiles have diffrent max range. In order not to restrict the AI to launch upon other aircrafts, set visibility to infinity solves everything once and for all! Don't you ever think so?

 

 

Okay, I know why the AIM-120C missed. In Gameplay setting, I took the default values for Enemy Skill and Simulation Difficulty. If you take Hard for both, the AIM-120C is deadly accurate!

Edited April 27, 2008 by Basher11

[Stick]

I just tried it.Only on the F-15.And i had the whole soviet Armada bearing down on me.Looks like Ive got to get busy

[Basher11]

I just tried it.Only on the F-15.And i had the whole soviet Armada bearing down on me.Looks like Ive got to get busy

What do you get again? Please tell me in more details. I need to know if the AI attacks you or just your wingies, also I need to know if the AI fire at you all at once or they bracket you first then fire one after the other.

[Stick]

About 15 planes were bearing down on me from different directions(i keep hitting f6 to get situational awareness).They engage at max range.When I get the call 'he's firing a missile'I hit R to identify and true enough I see a SU-27 or MiG-29 lighter by an R-77.Of course standard procedure is to hit the ECM and turn 90 deg. At different stages of the close in various aircraft begin taking shots. And at optimal range I tell my wingman to open fire.Then Fights on.

 

Oh yeah they bracket me in.I had no option to engage. I was on escort so things were already decided when the first offensive began 50 miles away(which is strange because its outside the R-77 range parameters)

Edited April 28, 2008 by Stick

[Basher11]

About 15 planes were bearing down on me from different directions(i keep hitting f6 to get situational awareness).They engage at max range.When I get the call 'he's firing a missile'I hit R to identify and true enough I see a SU-27 or MiG-29 lighter by an R-77.Of course standard procedure is to hit the ECM and turn 90 deg. At different stages of the close in various aircraft begin taking shots. And at optimal range I tell my wingman to open fire.Then Fights on.

 

Oh yeah they bracket me in.I had no option to engage. I was on escort so things were already decided when the first offensive began 50 miles away(which is strange because its outside the R-77 range parameters)

Alright, let me try to get this right. So you were not alone you have your wingies. And which theatre or WoE or WoI are we talking about? So all bogies fired at you at max range?

 

Now the offensive max range of any missile after such tweaking can go a little bit beyond its designated value in the Weapon.ini file. For instance, AIM-120C has a max range of 78km and it does fire at like 80 or 82km but not an exagerrated 120km you know what I mean.

 

So which theatre I want to know, thanks in advance.