USS Cabot question

[Stratos 3,191]

The USS Cabot later Dedalo was the first truly spanish carrier, we operated Harriers from it, but do you think that as a carrier can operate Crusaders and Skyhawks?? Maybe changing the deck to a metal one?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_aircr...ier_D%C3%A9dalo

Edited July 14, 2008 by Stratos

[MAKO69 186]

You would need an angled deck and or not recover and launch at the same time keeping the departure end of the carrier clear of aircraft, people, vehicles etc. Also witha massive upgrade the carrier would need steam catapults, and recovery eqiupment. So there goes a lot of useable space on the ship that was able to support 8 helos 8 Matadors. The wiki says 33 fixed wing I am sure that was WWII era aircraft. Probably not feasable and cost effective they are better off w/their new class of carriers. Unless they want to go the route of the money hungry rigs like the U.S.

[+suhsjake 11]

I think its to short to launch F-8 and A-4. Its possible to launch and recover aircraft w/o an angled deck, but it is much simpler to do so with an angled deck.

[Stratos 3,191]

I'm thinking to have a spanish navy detachment in Vietnam, so my first idea was the Cabot, maybe a more realist idea is a modernized Essex like the Oriskany?

[MAKO69 186]

bingo or just have propeller aircraft operating off of it example skyraider, bearcat, tracker, etc.

Edited July 14, 2008 by MAKO69

[Stratos 3,191]

Well a Oriskany class sounds better, but the prop version spunds cool, If only I have some skins for it

[Thog10 0]

The USS Cabot later Dedalo was the first truly spanish carrier, we operated Harriers from it, but do you think that as a carrier can operate Crusaders and Skyhawks?? Maybe changing the deck to a metal one?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_aircr...ier_D%C3%A9dalo

 

 

To echo and expand upon earlier comments, probably not. Deckwise, IMHO, I believe that the SCB 125 Essex class carriers were about as small as practicable for use by even relatively light jets such as the A-4 and F-8. Not only was the CV-9 class capable of carrying a much larger deck than the Cabot, but it also had much, much more internal volume. Even if it were just possible to cram appropriate arresting gear, an angeled deck, and a much more powerful catapult onto the Cabot's hull, you would have little or no margin in terms of weight and volume for little things such as an airwing.

 

Having said all that, Norman Friedman writes that "... Saipan and Wright served continuously after the end of the war, both being decommissioned in 1956-57. At that time limited interest was expressed in an angled-deck conversion, presumably to keep the Saipan as a training ship at Pensacola. No design work appears to have been done, although an SCB project number was assigned" (Friedman, U.S. Aircraft Carriers. pg 195.) Friedman is referring to the two light carriers completed later in the war that were in some respects a larger development of the CVL-22 class light carriers. Perhaps, based upon this note in Friedman's book it is just possible to imagine Cabot so upgraded, but it does require one to stretch one's imagination a bit.

[+Typhoid 231]

maybe an A-4, but that's a stretch.

 

prop job

 

In Spanish service what did it operate? wasn't it mostly just S-2's and helos?

[+suhsjake 11]

AV-8S too.

[MAKO69 186]

Re skin the Oriskany and make up a fictional story about 1 of the US essex class that was decom-ed and leased to the Spanish Armada in support of the Vietnam Conflict. There was a slew of Essex class carriers that went in and out of service from the 50s to the early 70s. I think people will like that. Then you could get some Spanish Armada Hornets skinned up for the 80 Vietnam campaign that would be cool.

[+Hinchinbrooke 36]

The US offered to send over a couple of Essex class carriers to the RN in the mid-60's after the cancellation of CVA-01. National pride and difficulties surrounding operational support meant that the offer was never taken up.

 

For a 'what-if' scenario, such an offer might provide good background for a Spanish mod (despite the difficulties of dealing with the Franco regime).

[Stratos 3,191]

Well Franco was after all a anti communist, and the war in Vietnam is not going well, so maybe is possible, Imagine a intervention in Cuba, Spain and Cuba have lots of ties, so why not the Spanish marines helping the USMC in Cuba? But I believe Vietnam willo be top notch.

What else will be realistic to add? Skyraiders or Bearcats?

[MAKO69 186]

Both, skyraiders were great air to ground and the bearcat was still a mean plane up into the mid 50's as a fighter, it could also do air to ground well.

Edited July 15, 2008 by MAKO69

[macelena 1,070]

What about using Furies? Spain already had Sabres in the age, some kind of gunval, with missiles- perhaps too similar to Mig17

 

Why not Skyhawks? USS Cabot was a CVL, not a CVE, so some deck mod could serve. Anyway, i would rather use the Starfighter, with wich we got good results, or a later deployment with MirageIIIE - of course not embarked.

Another idea is to have spanish pilots in USN flying crusaders, but before AV-8S, aboard Dedalo, is hard to say.

Edited July 15, 2008 by macelena

[+Typhoid 231]

Well Franco was after all a anti communist, and the war in Vietnam is not going well, so maybe is possible, Imagine a intervention in Cuba, Spain and Cuba have lots of ties, so why not the Spanish marines helping the USMC in Cuba? But I believe Vietnam willo be top notch.

What else will be realistic to add? Skyraiders or Bearcats?

 

what about Spain trying to reclaim her former colonies while the US is otherwise engaged.........

 

[+Hinchinbrooke 36]

'60's Spain was still fairly impoverished. Even if she could have manned and maintained a carrier the size of an 'Essex', perhaps for authenticity, the mod might reflect that she could only afford refurbished Dutch Hawker Sea Hawks for strike duty after they ended service on Karel Doorman. I'd suggest the Sea Venom also, but we don't have one.

[MAKO69 186]

I like that idea too but I think they would rely heavily on prop planes as well as 1st gen jets if they had the essex if not, just props of the short carrier.

'60's Spain was still fairly impoverished. Even if she could have manned and maintained a carrier the size of an 'Essex', perhaps for authenticity, the mod might reflect that she could only afford refurbished Dutch Hawker Sea Hawks for strike duty after they ended service on Karel Doorman. I'd suggest the Sea Venom also, but we don't have one.

[JediMaster 451]

What I don't know is the fuel storage capacity of those smaller carriers. Props and jets use different fuel, plus props use the more volatile of the 2 (which is one reason the USN wanted to go all-jet on carriers ASAP), and that makes extended ops more difficult.

[Stratos 3,191]

WIP, not by me, Thank's mate!!

 

[MAKO69 186]

Unless you are a nation like Spain that could not afford the bigger carrier and the jet aircraft to go with it. They would have needed help w/purchase or lease of both during the 60's. The small escourt carrier Cabot had no problem operating w/33 fixed wing propeller driven aircraft during WW2, so I see no problem using Skyraiders, Bearcats, and S-2 Trackers, Heck you could even throw in late versions of the F4U Corsairs which were pretty mean planes in the air to ground role in the early part of the conflict. Props were better on gas than jets the skyraider could loiter for 8 hours hanging on the prop with a fairly good bomb load. The first 2 would have been very usefull during the 60's and after the navy got rid of the Skyraider in '67. The Dedalo's Skyraiders and or Bearcats could have been assigned RESCAP duties, and or assigned to close air support for R.O.K. Army and South Vietnam Armies. Spain would have been about 10-12 years behind the US,UK,USSR in tech-mech back in the 60's. The use of a loaned USN Essex class carrier would be great but use of the Dedalo would be more realistic and a more sense of pride for Spanyards.

 

What IF, The Dedalo could have been equiped w/arresting gear and the A-4s could have been fitted w/JATO units, similar to forward USMC bases during 'Nam. A carrier the size of Dedalo could only have 6 A-4s and operate safe and efficiant 8 would be pushing the envelope of safety. Recovery would have to be done in a way that would allow the deck to be clear for runoff after landing and bolters. The A-4 just landed would have to be stowed below "quickly"(within minutes) between recoveries.

What I don't know is the fuel storage capacity of those smaller carriers. Props and jets use different fuel, plus props use the more volatile of the 2 (which is one reason the USN wanted to go all-jet on carriers ASAP), and that makes extended ops more difficult.

Edited July 17, 2008 by MAKO69

[JediMaster 451]

Would JATO have been safe to use on those carriers?

[MAKO69 186]

As safe as you want to make it. Probably not any more dangerouse than a F-18F coming back w/an unspent warload. It was a what if option, if they wanted to operate a-4s from that Dedalo it could have been an option. It was done w/RN Hurricanes off some theirnon carrier-type ships in WW2

Would JATO have been safe to use on those carriers?

[Stratos 3,191]

Is JATO available somehow in SF series? I want to use F8 Crusader too is the Crud lighter?

[MAKO69 186]

Check out the NF-104 there is a mod that gives that aircraft additional thrust for sveral minutes get some ideas from that. Jato would only be for 4-10 seconds depending on size. You would have to Mod the aircraft to so at 100% power it would double the thrust of the aircraft and only last for a specified time 4-10 seconds. Or mod a centerline fueltank or missle, rocket it would fire when selected giving the required thrust, but not release until jetisoned.

2nd part The F-8 is much heavier than an A-4 F-8 normal load 28,000 lbs(12,700kg) the A-4 about 10,000 lbs (5000 kg) The f-8 has a highr landing speed and in order to land on the Dedalo would need to be on vapors, not true to life. Need atleast enough fuel for 2 passes an then some to climb out to 5k to bail out.

Is JATO available somehow in SF series? I want to use F8 Crusader too is the Crud lighter?

Edited July 17, 2008 by MAKO69

[MAKO69 186]

JATO would be no more dangerouse than a 2000k bomb or other hi explosive device as long as caution is used.

As safe as you want to make it. Probably not any more dangerouse than a F-18F coming back w/an unspent warload. It was a what if option, if they wanted to operate a-4s from that Dedalo it could have been an option. It was done w/RN Hurricanes off some theirnon carrier-type ships in WW2