Carrier Fire

[+Jug 99]

Typhoid, you are absolutely correct, fire aboard ship is no joke. Have fought more than one myself. All were small thankfully. During our 84-85 cruise onboard the Eisenhower, had one joker get caught smoking in the forward JP-5 pump room during flight ops. Fortunately he was caught before anything happened. Still it earned him a trip to visit the C.O. in less than 24 hours. I hope that smoke was worth it, it cost him thirty days extra duty, thirty days restriction and one months pay. The clock on restriction and extra duty stops while the ship is underway. I guess some folks do not understand what "the smoking lamp is out during flight ops" means when announced over the 1MC/5MC. Fires happen all the time onboard ships. As was stated before, most are are small and contained before they get out of hand. I agree, one of the best schools I went to in the Navy was firefighting school. You also get refresher training. Like they say in the Marines, every Marine is a rifleman no matter what your MOS is. In the Navy, every sailor is a firefighter/damagecontrolman no matter what your NEC is.

 

Which leads me to a question. Jarhead1, do FMF get shipboard/aircraft firefighting training before deploying aboard ships? Seems like a silly question. I don't remember meeting any Marines at firefighting school. It would seem aviation Marines would as the squadrons deploy aboard LHA's. Just curious.

 

Yes, if one cigarette can cause 70 milliion dollars in damage, I seriously question this ships survivability, not to mention the training of the crew. Unless this figure also includes the operating budget for the amount of time she was out of service and cost of repairs. 70 mil is considerable amount of damage. So I would completely understand the relieving of the C.O and the X.O. As a LCPO, even though I was enlisted, I was still held responsible for everything the men under my command did as it was reflection of my leadership capabilities. Everyone is responsible for those under them, right on down to the lowest petty officer. So I'm fairly certain a lot more heads were rolling. Including department heads and division officers, CPO's, etc. Just like when the USS Stark was hit. Some officers were relieved or given letters of reprimmand (effectively killing their careers) and some CPO's and 1st & 2nd class petty officers were demoted for lack of leadership abilities under emergency/GQ conditions while others were promoted for showing exceptional leadership abilities under the circumstances.

Bottom line is, in the military when s$#t happens, heads roll. And I don't mean port-a-potties on wheels.

 

Anyway, sorry I got long winded. Thanks for listening.

 

C2

 

It was not long winded and explained a lot. When what should be a small event rolls up to a catastrophic event, many failures happened along the way. Training shortages, equipment shortages or failures, leadership, and management at all levels. No doubt that the passageways of that ship are full of heads rolling from the top on down. That is the way it ought to be. One of the things that distinguishes the US Military from most others is the ability of the subordinate to step in when the boss goes down and get the job done right. Command under pressure is where from the basic seaman to the captain himself, responsibility and accountability flows with little or no direction. Obviously, this did not happen here. Cases such as this are not the model and I am sure the Navy is hard at work examining what went wrong and what needs to be changed, institutionally, throughout the fleet to return to where things should be in a professional service.

 

It just seems to be a lot of damage and a lot of injuries for a smoking accident. Somebody got the priorities mixed up and a return to the basic 'every sailor is a firefighter/damagecontrolman above everything' seems in order.

 

I'm an AF type and, Lord knows, we are guilty of unprofessional conduct on our own turf, but like our Navy, we hold a pretty high bar up there and hold the entire chain of command accountable for failue and achievement. At the end of the day, the story remains the same, if you cannot do it, we will find some one who can. It is a 365/24/7 committment and that is the oath you take when you sign up.

 

Promotion is not a reward, it is an acknowledgement of the ability to achieve higher expectations.

[+Typhoid 231]

"Came aboard her in Nov. 77 when she was in portsmoth Naval shipyard for 9 month ROH. "

 

we probably passed on the brow......

 

actually I flew off as the ship limped home from her deployment that year. That ship was in baaaaaad shape when I flew off. The potable water tanks were contaminated and we were all, quite literally, getting sick from that !#@$!#@^%^!! We had so much fuel distalate in the drinking water that you could, quite literally, light it off. That started when the fuel smell and taste was so bad in the bug juice one day that some funny guy in the wardroom while we were all sitting around put his lighter to his glass. Quite an uproar when it "lit off". Quickly followed by one of the messcooks tossing a match into the sink full of dirty dishes which were all promptly "cauterized". Followed by guys lighting their sinks off, "no smoking" signs outside of the heads and showers, etc. Followed by the CO getting "slightly" ticked off and telling everyone to "knock that s**t off"!

 

But all of our fire fighting and damage control gear worked at 100%!!!!!!!!!

 

"In the Navy, every sailor is a firefighter/damagecontrolman no matter what your NEC is."

 

AMEN!!!! Absolutely right on C2aircrew. (your name is awfully darn familiar. Do I know you from somewhere?)

 

which is why ashore at these pale blue suit locales, when the fire alarm goes off all those gents and ladies run outside and wait for the profesional firefighters to come put out the blazing popcorn in the microwave. Among us dark blue suit Sailors, when the fire alarm goes off we all run TO the blazing conflagration, put the d@mn thing out, and wait for the profesional firefighters to show up and finish the paperwork.....

 

 

"I will admit that I am not impressed when a out-of-place cigarette can do this much damage to the ship. What would happen with a hostile weapon hit. "

 

a reasonable question in view of $70mil of damage. But the problem here was flamable stuff stored where it should not have been. So some lively firefighting for a couple of hours, but contained with no serious structural damage nor threat to weapons magazines. As a frame of reference - the Indy had a major fire when I was aboard (related above) and a collision at sea, aircraft crash on deck, there were the three major carrier fires that rejuvanated our firefighting training, procedures and equipment, and many other minor and major events. In no case in those examples was the ability of the carrier to conduct flight operations within a few hours compromised. Even the Enterprise and (ahem) Forest Fire events with major ordanance detonations on the flight deck were able, if needed, to launch and recover aircraft within a few hours. In another example that I recall from a few years ago, an EA-6B crashed on recovery into the pack of aircraft parked forward and turned into a major fire on deck which was very quickly put out and the remaining aircraft recovered. Fast hot work, but still in action.

 

so we can still go into the teeth of the opposition and turn infrastructure into rubble when called.

 

 

"Promotion is not a reward, it is an acknowledgement of the ability to achieve higher expectations. "

 

absolutely true and clearly a "joint standard" that we share.

Edited August 4, 2008 by Typhoid

[C2Aaircrew 3]

Typhoid, I'm on a couple of other flight sim forums. PM me if you want. Retired off the The Big E in 93 while she was in drydock an Newport News, right before sea trials, after having her reactors replaced/overhauled.

"Among us dark blue suit Sailors, when the fire alarm goes off we all run TO the blazing conflagration, put the d@mn thing out, and wait for the profesional firefighters to show up and finish the paperwork.....". Reminds me when my bro-in-law were staying with my grandmother's for a few days in Dec. 97, we drove down to Laguna Beach from S.F. bay area so he could talk to a couple of fishing boat captains out of San Pedro Harbor. He was a commercial fisherman in the Bering Sea for almost twenty years. Anyway, we had fallen asleep on her couches and her fire alarm went off at about 4 am. We both jumped up and burst through her bedroom door, breaking it off of the door jamb. Scared the crap out of her. Upshot was no fire, she said the thing goes off all of the time and if there had been a fire she would have called 911 and we should have gone outside. Told her it was reaction to training. Still do it today, certain things happen and you go into autopilot and react or prevent the situation. It does not go away. Well, we spent the day installing a new door jamb/door and fire alarm.

 

Sound like a long string of events led to this catastophy. Where were the LPO's/LCPO's in charge of these spaces? If unauthorized storage of flammables is what caused this, then this is where the final break in the chain of command happened. I find it hard to believe that some hard charging Seaman or 3rd class would have let this pass unless the folks in charge had a cavalier attitude about cleanliness. I seem to remember Chiefs and Firsts who could spot a speck of dust on the topside of the electrical conduits in a dimly light passageway. Were the safety teams doing their daily walkthrough inspections?

What about the documentation for the disposal of flammable materials? Sorry to say but, cavalier attitudes start at the top. It's just the breakdown is usually somewhere between the top and bottom of the ladder. This is why I'm sure that after the investigation/board of inquiry is over, there is going to be enough pain to go around. I hate to say it, but, the guy/gal that started it probable hauled a$$. Hopefully someone saw this person. I would not like to think this person would go unscathed.

 

You guys are right tho. Our ships and crews can take a lot more and still complete their mission. It would take an awful lot of firepower to get to a CV. Tho' I'm sure those two soviet AC jolted someones jockstrap the other week with a CV flyover and no intercept. I'll bet someone heard about that.

 

Speaking about cleanliness, when I was aboard the Mt Hood, we were just notified an hour before liberty call that ComLogGru One was coming aboard at 0800. So needless to say, we know what happened next. Yep, liberty was secured until further notice. Anyway, I was OI Div LPO at the time, so 03-05 levels and the winch decks were my responsiblity. I actually had this 3rd class, 6 mos A school wonder, total TIS 18 mos, tell me I was lucky, I didn't know what it was like to have to scrub decks/bulkheads, etc... I asked him do you think I came in the Navy as a 1st class. I told him I came in the hard way, E-1 started out on deck force on the Saratoga, now get the F$$K back to work. Can't talk like that now. It's the new Navy again. Didn't we go through that Admiral Zumwalt and his infamous Z-grams already?

 

Just my thoughts.

Anyway, take care,

 

C2

[+Jarhead1 27]

Typhoid, you are absolutely correct, fire aboard ship is no joke. Have fought more than one myself. All were small thankfully. During our 84-85 cruise onboard the Eisenhower, had one joker get caught smoking in the forward JP-5 pump room during flight ops. Fortunately he was caught before anything happened. Still it earned him a trip to visit the C.O. in less than 24 hours. I hope that smoke was worth it, it cost him thirty days extra duty, thirty days restriction and one months pay. The clock on restriction and extra duty stops while the ship is underway. I guess some folks do not understand what "the smoking lamp is out during flight ops" means when announced over the 1MC/5MC. Fires happen all the time onboard ships. As was stated before, most are are small and contained before they get out of hand. I agree, one of the best schools I went to in the Navy was firefighting school. You also get refresher training. Like they say in the Marines, every Marine is a rifleman no matter what your MOS is. In the Navy, every sailor is a firefighter/damagecontrolman no matter what your NEC is.

 

Which leads me to a question. Jarhead1, do FMF get shipboard/aircraft firefighting training before deploying aboard ships? Seems like a silly question. I don't remember meeting any Marines at firefighting school. It would seem aviation Marines would as the squadrons deploy aboard LHA's. Just curious.

 

Yes, if one cigarette can cause 70 milliion dollars in damage, I seriously question this ships survivability, not to mention the training of the crew. Unless this figure also includes the operating budget for the amount of time she was out of service and cost of repairs. 70 mil is considerable amount of damage. So I would completely understand the relieving of the C.O and the X.O. As a LCPO, even though I was enlisted, I was still held responsible for everything the men under my command did as it was reflection of my leadership capabilities. Everyone is responsible for those under them, right on down to the lowest petty officer. So I'm fairly certain a lot more heads were rolling. Including department heads and division officers, CPO's, etc. Just like when the USS Stark was hit. Some officers were relieved or given letters of reprimmand (effectively killing their careers) and some CPO's and 1st & 2nd class petty officers were demoted for lack of leadership abilities under emergency/GQ conditions while others were promoted for showing exceptional leadership abilities under the circumstances.

Bottom line is, in the military when s$#t happens, heads roll. And I don't mean port-a-potties on wheels.

 

Anyway, sorry I got long winded. Thanks for listening.

 

C2

 

 

 

Yes sir they sure do, the ARF, or Aircraft Rescue Firefighters, formerly known as CFR or crash fire rescue are deployed with all squadrons on ship and all crewman for aircraft in the USMC are able to fight a basic aircraft fuel or ordnance fire.

[+Typhoid 231]

"Anyway, we had fallen asleep on her couches and her fire alarm went off at about 4 am. We both jumped up and burst through her bedroom door, breaking it off of the door jamb. Scared the crap out of her. Upshot was no fire, she said the thing goes off all of the time and if there had been a fire she would have called 911 and we should have gone outside. Told her it was reaction to training. Still do it today, certain things happen and you go into autopilot and react or prevent the situation. It does not go away. Well, we spent the day installing a new door jamb/door and fire alarm."

 

I can picture that entire event! Especially the installing a new door jamb/door and fire alarm!!

 

[firehawkordy 34]

To add to Jarheads statement, ALL embarked members of a ship have to be qualified to fight fires, the first time is in Boot Camp, after that at regular periods. Aviation types have to do undergo further training for flight deck fires. In twenty years I did five courses, and most of that was as a Reservist, thats how serious fire fighting is in the Navy.

 

As for smoking in an unauthorised area, during an UnREP on the Saratoga, we caught a mess crank laying on some bags of trash having a smoke. Not more than 3 feet from him was an open sounding tube for a JP-5 tank, and, this is where it gets good, the Mag Rats were moving live MK-82's around the Mess decks just outside that compartment. When he was discovered he wasn't wrote up, he got the livin' S*** kicked out of him by every Ordie and Grape in the vicinity. So I guess it's true, smoking is bad for you.

 

And yes thank God no one was killed in this last incident.

Edited August 7, 2008 by firehawkordy

[MAKO69 186]

Fires happened a lot 1 cruise I remember we had like 20 fires in 5 months.