Campaign Idea WOE

[+hgbn 91]

I'm thinking of creating a Early 50's campaign for Europe. But I need need some info on units based in Europe in that timeframe.

 

Main idea is! What if??

 

Korea: General MacArthur gets his will and several Chineese Cities are being nuked to rubble. The Soviet retalliation is a masive attack on western Europe. Spearheaded in the Fulda Gap Region. All Nato forces are deploying all availible assets to stop the aggression. Even the Swedes are drawn into the conflict since they are part of the UN forces in Korea. I know that the Royal Danish Air Force was meant to deploy in Germany in the event of war. Most Cold War scenarios predict the Fulda Gap as the main battlefield in Europe.

 

My goal is to have a mix of propdriven Aircrafts and early jets. At least two playable units from each country. But the first task is to create a list of units and Aircrafts and see what is possible.

 

Royal Danish Air Force

 

Squadron 723 Aalborg AB

Gloster Meteor MK IV. 1951-52

converted to Meteor NF.MK11 december 1952

converted to North American F-86D June 1958

converted To Lockheed F-104G December 1964

 

Squadron 725 Karup AB

Supermarine Spitfire MK IX. 1950-52

converted to Republic F-84E/G 1951-52

converted to North American F-100D 1961

 

USAFE

 

36th FBW Bittburg

 

22nd F-84E 1952 ---> Aug 54 F-86F-25

23nd F-84E 1952 ---> Aug 54 F-86F-25

53nd F-84E 1952 ---> Aug 54 F-86F-25

 

50th FW Frankfurt-Hahn

 

10th FB F-86F-30

81th FB F-86F-30

417th FB F-86F-30

 

JG71 - CL-13B Sabre - in Ahlhorn

JG72 - CL-13B Sabre - in Leck

JG73 - CL-13B Sabre - in Pferdsfeld

JG74 - F-86K Sabre Dog - in Neuburg (1961)

JBG31 - F-84F - in Nörvenich

JBG32 - F-84F - in Lechfeld

JBG33 - F-84F - in Büchel

JBG34 - F-84F - in Memmingen

JBG35 - F-84F - in Husum

JBG36 - F-84F - in Hopsten

AG51 - RF-84F - in Erding

AG52 - RF-84F - in Erding

 

German units after 1958-59 source Florian

 

Something like that

I can dig up information on most Royal Danish Air Force Squadrons if not all. But I'm not strong on other Contries.

 

Thought it could be cool to have such a early campaign. Most Aircrafts and ground objects is availible from various sites.

[+Gepard 11,295]

The Fulda Gap scenarios as main direction of attack are wrong. As war game scenarios of the WP, which were found after the political change in 1990, indicated, the planed main attack direction was in northern Germany. The first strike direction was called "Jütlandische Operation" in NVA documents. With a strike from the north of the GDR was planed to conquer the danish penisula of Jutland. The first strategic wave would have to reache the line of the Nord-Ostseekanal (Northsea-Baltic Sea canal) The second wave should take the rest of Danmark.

The second strike direction was called "Operationsrichtung Küste". The main idea of this strike was to reach the area of Bremen and to annihilate the american forces in this area in a major panzer battle, then to run to the river Rhine to attack the Netherlands.

The third strategic direction "Norddeutsche Strategische Richtung" would strike from the centre of the GDR over Hannover to the Ruhr Gebiet area then cross Belgium to reach the English Canal

The forth strike direction was called "Süddeutsche Strategische Richtung" would cover the Fulda Gap scenarios. The idea was to run toward Frankfurt, reach the Rhine and then run over Luxenburg deep into France, main direction Paris.

The troops in the western CSSR would stand defensive at the first moment. It was planed to lure the american forces in bavaria into a trap. The left flank of the forth strike direction was open. So it was expected, that the american commanders would attack in northern direction from Bavaria into Thuringia to cut of the supply lines of the "Fulda Gap operation". When the americans would try to cross the Thuringia Wood mountains the 5th strike direction troops would start to begin a attack from the CSSR to the Rhine and enter France south of the Vogesen mountains. The in northern direction advancing US forces should annihilated in a battle north of the Thuringia Wood (Erfurt area) by troops of the second strategic wave.

It is interessting, that only against american forces the terminus "annihilate" is used. Against all other NATO nations it was said "to push". That indicates, that it was planned to kill as many US americans as possible, because of the proven "loss vulnerability" of the US american society (55.000 lost soldiers in Vietnam forced a big trauma on that nation). The idea was to give isolationist forces in the USA the argument to leave western europe alone.

[Sakai 2]

Funny ya'll are discussing this, cause I am currently reading "Red Storm Rising". This, I think, supports Gepards facts. The main thrust/break through comes in northern Germany on the first day of the war. The area around Alfred becomes the major focal point for the fighting after the invasion. But, I believe that the timeframe is late 80's, 88 to 89 area. The book gives a good idea of what might happen in a conventional war between NATO and WP forces.

[Emp_Palpatine 501]

Even better than Red Storm Rising is "The third World War" by Gen. Sir John Hackett.

[Slartibartfast 153]

If required I have books for the Royal Air Force and Navy where I can get the infomation.

 

As to the books Emp is right about The Third World War much more interesting if a bit more long winded than the Tom Clancy book

[Meathead 1]

Some info on Royal Canadian Air Force units in Europe at the time...

 

In August 1949 Canada joined NATO, and as part of its military commitment, established an Air Division (No. 1 Air Division) in Europe consisting of four wings. The first wing to form, No.1 Fighter Wing, was established at North Luffenham, England in 1951, but later moved to Marville, France. Other RCAF wings quickly followed, with bases established at Grostenquin, France; Zweibrücken, West Germany; and Baden-Soellingen, West Germany. Each of these wings consisted of three fighter squadrons each. The backbone of RCAF support to NATO's air forces in Europe in the 1950s were the CF-100 and the Sabre. Until 1958 the RCAF also trained aircrew from other NATO countries under the NATO Air Training Plan.

 

1 Wing (North Luffenham, England 1951-1954, Marville, France 1955)

-410 Squadron (relocated to Baden, Germany 1954-1955)

-411 Squadron (relocated to Zweibrücken, Germany 1954-1955)

-439 Squadron

-441 Squadron

All four squadrons flew Canadair Sabres

 

**In 1956 410 squadron was replaced by 445 squadron flying the CF-100 Canuck

 

2 Wing (Grostenquin, France 1952)

-416 Squadron

-421 Squadron

-430 Squadron

All flying Canadair Sabres

 

**In 1956 416 squadron was replaced by 423 squadron flying the CF-100 Canuck

 

3 Wing (Zweibrücken, Germany 1953)

-413 Squadron

-427 Squadron

-434 Squadron

All flying Canadair Sabres

 

**In 1957 413 squadron was replaced by 440 squadron flying the CF-100 Canuck

 

4 Wing (Baden-Soellingen, Germany 1953)

-414 Squadron

-422 Squadron

-444 Squadron

All flying Canadair Sabres

 

**In 1955 414 squadron was replaced by 419 squadron flying the CF-100 Canuck

 

Hope this helps a little, alot of this info is courtesy of Dr. Wikipedia.

 

 

 

Good luck with your project

[+hgbn 91]

The Fulda Gap scenarios as main direction of attack are wrong. As war game scenarios of the WP, which were found after the political change in 1990, indicated, the planed main attack direction was in northern Germany. The first strike direction was called "Jütlandische Operation" in NVA documents. With a strike from the north of the GDR was planed to conquer the danish penisula of Jutland. The first strategic wave would have to reache the line of the Nord-Ostseekanal (Northsea-Baltic Sea canal) The second wave should take the rest of Danmark.

The second strike direction was called "Operationsrichtung Küste". The main idea of this strike was to reach the area of Bremen and to annihilate the american forces in this area in a major panzer battle, then to run to the river Rhine to attack the Netherlands.

The third strategic direction "Norddeutsche Strategische Richtung" would strike from the centre of the GDR over Hannover to the Ruhr Gebiet area then cross Belgium to reach the English Canal

The forth strike direction was called "Süddeutsche Strategische Richtung" would cover the Fulda Gap scenarios. The idea was to run toward Frankfurt, reach the Rhine and then run over Luxenburg deep into France, main direction Paris.

The troops in the western CSSR would stand defensive at the first moment. It was planed to lure the american forces in bavaria into a trap. The left flank of the forth strike direction was open. So it was expected, that the american commanders would attack in northern direction from Bavaria into Thuringia to cut of the supply lines of the "Fulda Gap operation". When the americans would try to cross the Thuringia Wood mountains the 5th strike direction troops would start to begin a attack from the CSSR to the Rhine and enter France south of the Vogesen mountains. The in northern direction advancing US forces should annihilated in a battle north of the Thuringia Wood (Erfurt area) by troops of the second strategic wave.

It is interessting, that only against american forces the terminus "annihilate" is used. Against all other NATO nations it was said "to push". That indicates, that it was planned to kill as many US americans as possible, because of the proven "loss vulnerability" of the US american society (55.000 lost soldiers in Vietnam forced a big trauma on that nation). The idea was to give isolationist forces in the USA the argument to leave western europe alone.

 

 

Very interesting. Do you have any indication of that battleplan would go for the early to mid fifties too?? Or is that plan only valid for the later years of the cold war.

[+hgbn 91]

Some info on Royal Canadian Air Force units in Europe at the time...

 

In August 1949 Canada joined NATO, and as part of its military commitment, established an Air Division (No. 1 Air Division) in Europe consisting of four wings. The first wing to form, No.1 Fighter Wing, was established at North Luffenham, England in 1951, but later moved to Marville, France. Other RCAF wings quickly followed, with bases established at Grostenquin, France; Zweibrücken, West Germany; and Baden-Soellingen, West Germany. Each of these wings consisted of three fighter squadrons each. The backbone of RCAF support to NATO's air forces in Europe in the 1950s were the CF-100 and the Sabre. Until 1958 the RCAF also trained aircrew from other NATO countries under the NATO Air Training Plan.

 

1 Wing (North Luffenham, England 1951-1954, Marville, France 1955)

-410 Squadron (relocated to Baden, Germany 1954-1955)

-411 Squadron (relocated to Zweibrücken, Germany 1954-1955)

-439 Squadron

-441 Squadron

All four squadrons flew Canadair Sabres

 

**In 1956 410 squadron was replaced by 445 squadron flying the CF-100 Canuck

 

2 Wing (Grostenquin, France 1952)

-416 Squadron

-421 Squadron

-430 Squadron

All flying Canadair Sabres

 

**In 1956 416 squadron was replaced by 423 squadron flying the CF-100 Canuck

 

3 Wing (Zweibrücken, Germany 1953)

-413 Squadron

-427 Squadron

-434 Squadron

All flying Canadair Sabres

 

**In 1957 413 squadron was replaced by 440 squadron flying the CF-100 Canuck

 

4 Wing (Baden-Soellingen, Germany 1953)

-414 Squadron

-422 Squadron

-444 Squadron

All flying Canadair Sabres

 

**In 1955 414 squadron was replaced by 419 squadron flying the CF-100 Canuck

 

Hope this helps a little, alot of this info is courtesy of Dr. Wikipedia.

 

 

 

Good luck with your project

 

Exsactly the kind of info I need. Would those units be considered as air superior units or Fighterbomber units??

[+Gepard 11,295]

hgbn, the soviet strategy was simply to avoid a new June 22. This was the date of the german attack in 1941 which came completly unexpected for the soviet leadership and became to a trauma comparable to the american Pearl Harbour trauma.

So it was planed in worst case (on the first sign of an enemy attack) to strike first and bring the war into enemy territory. And this from the early 50th. The reasons:

1)Soviet armies were panzer armies, what means the were prepered for fast and deep attack operations. The maximum daily attack depht was set up to 150km. More was not possible because of resupply restrictions. (up today 150km/day is the maximum, more is easily possible for combat troops, but ammo and fuel supply forces cant follow as fast. The fast american strike to Bagdad in the last Iraq war came close to a fiasco, because the US boys suddenly faced empty ammo stocks and empty fueltanks)

If you look on a map of Germany you will see, that the North of Germany is very good suited for panzer operations, because widly flat or hilly and a good street network available. So maneuvering warfare is possible and favors the attacker.

2)Panzers are not made for combat in mountainious areas. What means that an attack through the mountain areas in middle or south Germany would be more risky. The attack ways were much more canaled and could be defended more easily also by outnumberd forced.

3)If you take a closer look on the WP war exercises then you will see, that the major exercises played in low lands. The last large Scale exercise "Waffenbrüderschaft80" (Brotherhood of Arms 80) for instance trained the strike of the "Jütland Operation".

 

This premisses were the basic for the soviet (WP) war planning up to the early 80th.

With Andropow the soviet strategy was changed from offensive style to defensive doctrin. From that time it was planed to lure the enemy into the own territory and follow the successfull strategy of the war against Napoleon and NaziGermany.