List of questions for OFF phase 3, would this'n that be possible ?

[Wels 2]

Hello,

 

some observations after my first 25 or so missions - all with the Fokker E.III.

 

The E.III has a generally belivable behaviour, (however sometimes when slightly banking to the right, it will not roll back to the left at all, and this is not a reproducable behaviour, or connected to any speed, rudder or whatever. Has been improved by the last patch or so it feels).

I wonder how this bird would have ever shot down anything at all. You have absolutely no chance engaging any two-seater with an observer and MG. Only plane that can be shot down is the BE2c. I manage to shoot down one 1 1/2 strutter at times, but almost immediately my engine will be damaged in a way that i have to land - and this brings me to the following list of observations:

 

1. Is there any way possible to change that OFF does not automatically finishes the game after an own crash landing, or landing at all in enemy territory ? So that you can have a look at the crashed plane, pan around it with the camera, and have your own thoughts whether you would have survived that in reality. Regardless where i land with a damaged plane, i am instantly drawn out of the game, and mostly the plane is described "destroyed", even if i made a perfect 3-pointer, and only engine or tank was punctured !

 

2. Damaged enemy planes tend to crash-land almost always in forests, even if there was a clear strip some 100 feet to the left, or right. Thus they explode and "annihilate" in fierce explosions (overdone IMHO, WW2 or Hollywood style).

 

3. If shot-up enemy aircraft manage to land at an open field, they will not stop their engine but roll on until they finally reach a tree, or any obstacle, until they again explode in an unbelievable fireball. Would it be possible to let them stop the engine and just stop moving ? Like make an emergency landing, stop and that's it. I already hated this running-on forever in Red Baron hrrrm.

 

4. Enemy planes never stop their prop even with a shot-up engine or so it seems. Instead the white puffs/the black smoke will vanish, and the engine keeps turning on and on.

 

5. At least some enemy AI planes should try to break from a fight when badly damaged, instead of circling on and on until they simply crash - better break off or try an emergency landing. Some of the enemy planes (observed Nieuport 11 and BE2c, fly in a strange "hanging" way until they crash.

 

6. AI planes should not circle above enemy fields forever, but fly away as soon as their target plane is shot down, or if the situation allows it. The way it currently works is they circle until they are all shot down by the aerodrome's machine gun fire. They should develop hit and run tactics, and automatically evade machine gun fire getting away.

 

7. Enemy planes mostly attack from above, which is ok, but after a few shots they break from the fight and head directly for the deck, as well as my wingmates - but it does not make sense - shouldn't they try to keep altitude ? Diving away is ok so the enemy might lose them, but it happens too often.

 

8. All questions regarding AI planes, own (wingmen) and enemy:

a) Do they have unlimited ammunition ? If yes can you change this ? And they should run away when out of ammo.

b) If developing a white trailing smoke after being hit, will their engine overheat at some time, and lose performance, or fail (burn/prop stop)?

c) Same question for black smoke ?

d) Will the AI plane's engine develop flames after some time of running too hot by itself ? Or will it rather stop its engine trying to glide down to a landing ?

e) Will the AI plane try to land or get away when trailing white (water) or black (oil) smoke ?

Asked b) and c) because i saw numerous planes which stopped smoking after some time, flying on and on. Same with burning engines - plane flies on without falling down, observed a lot of BE2cs.

 

8. Will your own engine be prone to failure by chance (without being hit, just the usual component failure) ?

 

9. Do enemy AI planes at their enemy aerodrome react to my presence ? I mean does some AI plane or squadron start when my flight comes into sight ?

 

Thanks and greetings,

Catfish

[+Winder 32]

Sure its called P4 but features list is not up yet.. and its not been made yet...and it will need you to shell out money for it all over again

 

I have posted that Phase 3 is basically complete.

 

HTH

 

WM

[Wels 2]

Hi,

 

Sure its called P4 but features list is not up yet.. and its not been made yet...and it will need you to shell out money for it all over again. I have posted that Phase 3 is basically complete.

HTH

WM

 

Well, thanks for your well-thought and witty answer. Your charm has never failed to amaze me.

Bye,

Catfish

[+Winder 32]

Hi,

 

 

 

Well, thanks for your well-thought and witty answer. Your charm has never failed to amaze me.

Bye,

Catfish

 

Yes well thought out for sure - witty no - I am saying we are not adding in any more features into P3 as we are now taking a break - what the future holds we shall decide over time.

And I know you have read my post in this regard?

 

If not here it is:

 

http://forum.combatace.com/index.php?showtopic=38219

 

WM

[griphos 0]

Hey Catfish,

 

Actually, some of what you ask has been addressed in other threads. Not all of it, but a good bit of it. For instance, the prop turning is hard-coded, they say, and so that's just the way it is. They can model the engine failure, but not the prop stopping (or, for instance, not have pilots sitting in parked planes).

 

As for some that hasn't, such as enemy plane landing behavior, I've seen some of the things you're asking about myself, such as enemy planes landing and just stopping.

 

Okay, so I'm clearly a little obsessed with this sim lately and read the forum entirely too much. :blush2:

 

Anyway, overall, my impression of your list is that it's the sort of list that displays just how good the AI is so far. I think only with extremely good AI, so good it really pulls us in and convinces us we are fighting almost real enemy, do we get to the place where we ask for those last few details that would make things basically exactly like real life. That's how I read your list, anyway, as a request for those final realistic details.

 

My sense is that this is ultimately impossible, since we're dealing with code and pixels. What I can't get over is that given that we're dealing with code and pixels, I quickly get to the place in every mission where I'm sweating and cursing those guys flying those beautiful and sometimes wildly painted crates, and thinking of them and their planes as at least as real as me and my own. Are there little things that sometimes remind me they are code and pixels? Yes. But damned few.

 

And to balance those out on the positive side, when my plane goes down in flames, I'm happy to learn that I don't actually get burnt or die.

 

Anyway, I'm thoroughly delighted with P3 as she stands, and will be standing by, billfold at the ready, for anything else that comes down the pike. Best sim money I've EVER spent.

Edited March 16, 2009 by griphos

[77Scout 3]

Sure its called P4 but features list is not up yet.. and its not been made yet...and it will need you to shell out money for it all over again

 

I have posted that Phase 3 is basically complete.

 

HTH

 

WM

 

Sounds great. We players will always ask for more and more improvements and there is no end to it, so you have to cut things off on Phase 3 at some point. At this point I certainly think we have gotten much more than our moneys worth in the Phase 3 product, the great support, and the patches/tweaks.

 

I would certainly buy a Phase 4 with added planes and other improvements.

Edited March 16, 2009 by 77Scout

[Rick Rawlings 138]

Wels: I have definitely seen A.I. planes break for home when damaged. Yes it could happen more frequently and yes, some still insist on following me all the way back to my aerodrome when I am trying to escape, but it does happen.

 

Winder: Put me down for phase 4 right now!

 

RR

[+Polovski 460]

Wow Catfish ;) 15 questions takes some time - let's hope everyone doesn't do this or P4 will never be done.. ;)

 

I prefer WM's answer but..

 

EIII is fine and much better now too. It wasn't a great flyer, was an extremely early design, used wing warping, what can you expect from that? But it did have a synchronised, reliable gun. Fearsome versus limited ammo opponents. Don't fly right behind two seaters they will put your lights out! 2 seaters are MUCH easier now so I think your tactics need to be refined some?

 

1. Yes but decided not to do that - maybe P4.

2. Yes we can do more on crashes more variants etc but P4

3. Maybe yes, P4. But all this is not easy and takes time, so wonder my RB did it too mmm ;)

4. Don't know if it's possible.

5. Low powered craft have trouble flying let alone breaking for home when damaged, maybe P4. AI does break for home, just not as often as it should (plus it just flies straight so makes it too easy for you to kill, and then that's something else we'd have to add/fix lol).

6. OK yes we need to write large amounts of AI code to cope with that.. probably better spending that time on other good stuff, but P4 maybe.

7. Depends, diving away was a good tactic then speed and head for your lines. If in QC use RANDOM AI. Much better mix.

 

8. AI isn't human and does not have all the problems/issues. More code it could be done, P4 maybe.

Also remember maybe some leaks stop in real life too (hole half way up the tank?) oil burns off but has enough to fly on?

8. no2. Maybe :)

9. No.

[Red-Dog 3]

P3 is by far the best sim i've ever flown,and to the dev team you should all get some sort of award for your work over the years.

to quote the man himself"never as so much been owed by so many to so few"

[Wels 2]

Hello,

 

i did not post those observations out of the blue. I got my OFF DVD relatively late (due to late ordering, no problem mail-wise), so i had only three weeks to "test" it, and write down what i thought would be nice to improve, until P3 is now considered finished, and any work on it stopped. I only wrote down what i experienced and saw, just to make it heard by the dev team.

Some small issues troubled the sim since phase 1, and i made some lists of issues before, regarding phase 1 and 2, as you will probably remember. There were a lot of points i wrote back then, from what you said would never be possible to improve due to "the CFS3 thing" - but contrary to this statement i found almost all issues have now been cured in phase 3, along with further improvements i never dared to dream about.

This is the best and most realistic simulator i ever saw and played. There is indeed not one that comes even near, and compared to phase 2 (which was not "bad" at all) it is a quantum leap ahead.

 

So i did not write this to downsize this sim in its third iteration, it is only that this is a relatively short list - had i wrote a list with what i liked this would have probably blown up the forum - i will reserve this for a review ;).

 

@Winder: No i did not read this post you mentioned via link, sorry, not even me can read all most of the time lol. Anyway after reading the link to the "current state of P3" post i understand your first answer, even if i found it a bit impolite. Well those who stayed "through the phases" are used to it, and after all this time i'm sure you don't give a damn lol .

 

@Pol: Thanks for taking the time, and thoroughly answering. Those points are no show stoppers, just might be worth thinking about along the line. I do not care whether you improve the sim with a patch for Phase 3, or in a new pay-for version, be it numbered 4 or whatever - just make sure you keep up the good work ! Maybe this intention of mine did not show through well enough ..

 

Thanks for reading and greetings,

Catfish

[+Polovski 460]

Thanks Catfish, we never know what the future holds, we never thought we could do what we have done, but hey . here we are now :)

 

We know most of the limitations and possibilities as we have been working on it so long now, and there are 100's of small things would could do but even the small things take some time, some of them too great an amount for small return.

Anyway we will see what we can be done in the future.

Next we want to make more craft, and to do that all other things become secondary.

[rabu 9]

Thanks Catfish, we never know what the future holds, we never thought we could do what we have done, but hey . here we are now :)

 

We know most of the limitations and possibilities as we have been working on it so long now, and there are 100's of small things would could do but even the small things take some time, some of them too great an amount for small return.

Anyway we will see what we can be done in the future.

Next we want to make more craft, and to do that all other things become secondary.

 

Yea, it all just takes time. Remember in Red Baron before Rens figured out how to access the compacted files that contained the scenery, etc., no one thought we could do that, then it happened and things moved forward. The CFS3 game engine is powerful and awsome, it's just that the way they used it in CFS3 had much to be desired. But look what has been accomplished in just the last year in OFF.. it's awsome too, and I think we will see a lot more to come.

[themightysrc 5]

"Next we want to make more craft, and to do that all other things become secondary."

 

Is this what P4 will be about, or will it be the final bit of P3? Sorry if someone's already asked this and you've provided an answer. It just seems to me that the only real need for P3 is to fill in the gaps in the historic squadrons' aircraft rosters.

[+Polovski 460]

No talking of possible addons for P3 - obviously depends on how things go with sales etc, and with new craft mean some gaps may get filled, or new squads made. Too many things needed so can't fill everything. If we do a P4 what's in it will be decided later.

[griphos 0]

Uncle Al, was it "Gimpyguy" before...or "Grumpyguy"?? <----smiley indicating question asked in genuine good-feeling and warm regard.

Edited March 17, 2009 by griphos

[themightysrc 5]

"What part of PHASE do you fail to grasp?"

 

Uncleal, I'm pretty well au fait with the English language, thanks for asking. I simply wished to find out when/at what point/if at all the bits missing from BH&H will be filled, ie, with regard to the absent aircraft which would round out and simplify squadron selection in the campaign game. Not an unreasonable request, I would have thought.

[almccoyjr 7]

Wow Catfish ;) 15 questions takes some time - let's hope everyone doesn't do this or P4 will never be done.. ;)

 

I prefer WM's answer but..

 

EIII is fine and much better now too. It wasn't a great flyer, was an extremely early design, used wing warping, what can you expect from that? But it did have a synchronised, reliable gun. Fearsome versus limited ammo opponents. Don't fly right behind two seaters they will put your lights out! 2 seaters are MUCH easier now so I think your tactics need to be refined some?

 

1. Yes but decided not to do that - maybe P4.

2. Yes we can do more on crashes more variants etc but P4

3. Maybe yes, P4. But all this is not easy and takes time, so wonder my RB did it too mmm ;)

4. Don't know if it's possible.

5. Low powered craft have trouble flying let alone breaking for home when damaged, maybe P4. AI does break for home, just not as often as it should (plus it just flies straight so makes it too easy for you to kill, and then that's something else we'd have to add/fix lol).

6. OK yes we need to write large amounts of AI code to cope with that.. probably better spending that time on other good stuff, but P4 maybe.

7. Depends, diving away was a good tactic then speed and head for your lines. If in QC use RANDOM AI. Much better mix.

 

8. AI isn't human and does not have all the problems/issues. More code it could be done, P4 maybe.

Also remember maybe some leaks stop in real life too (hole half way up the tank?) oil burns off but has enough to fly on?

8. no2. Maybe :)

9. No.

 

Ok...I'd like to be able to look out over the EIII's wings and watch them warp as I commence a roll.

 

And I'd like to be able to "communicate" with AI pilot to persuade him to "join" me and fly back to my Aerodrome when his guns jam or when rear gunner is killed. Deny this confirmation HQ!

 

I have CCR ready for P4 beacuse P3 is really something else.

 

By the way, what "warp" factor due you devs use to get back to your home planet(s)?