Voss and the skidding, flat turn...?

[Hauksbee]

Has anyone attempted, or performed, that skidding turn in a Triplane that Voss made famous?

[messaround]

well I spent about an hour trying - not even close...I remember WF2 was saying she did it, but not sure whether its in OFF or with real replica dr.I

[Hellshade]

I switched the flight model to easy,turned off auto rudder and built up some speed...still can't do it. Though it certainly turns in an amazingly short amount of space if you can keep it under control. Maybe with flight pedals? I'd rather fly a Fokker DVII anyways, so it doesn't matter much to me but I don't think it was "poetic license" though when they said it could make an uncoordinated flat 1/2 spin turn. That description was right from the diary of James MCudden who was in the fight.

 

To me what's far more interesting is to put everything on "DiD" standard and set up a QC with a lone DR 1 vs 6 SE5as having Ace flying skills. Give them the advantage (because McCuddens flight dove on Voss from behind) and see how long you survive. No radar. No target cone. limited fuel. limited ammo. All guns and FM set to realistic / hard and preferably with the normal Damage Model loaded. I think Voss put a total of 4 out of the fight (including the two before McCuddens flight showed up) before he died. There's no way to give yourself an Alb DIII wingman, unfortunately. But Voss also had additional EA showing up against him as well. I think they were at 15,000 feet. Maybe 10k. Anyways try that and see how long you last. I've only killed 2 before I died. Damn hard!!!

[Gremlin_WoH]

In none of the W.W.I flight sims I managed to do the flat turn althoug I have tried countless hours. I had a conversation with Womenfly about the flat turn. She said she did it in a real Fokker Dr. I replica.

 

The problem is all the W.W.I flight sims I have flown except Flying Corps I think use table based flight dynamics. I am not sure but Flying Corps was programmed with a fluid dynamics based flight model. In a table based flight model you move your joystick and the whole plane moves correspondingly with a reference to stored values. In a fluid dynamics based flight model the air flow around the wings and control surfaces is modeled. If you move your joystick only the control surfaces will be moved and the results from the changed air flow around the control surfaces will make the plane move. A table based FM is much simpler than a fluid based one but it does not eat up that much processor time.

 

I presume it is simply not possible to simulate a flat turn as this - although looking pretty simple - must be a very complex manoevre fluid dynamics wise. And it can only performed by one plane - the Fokker Dr.I.

 

I have tried that in OFF P2 and P3 also but the Fm simply does not allow for this as CFS 3 flightmodel is table based. By the way even Microsoft's FSX has still table based flight models.

 

One flight sim that immediately comes to my mind is Flight Unlimited by Looking Glass. This one had a fluid dynamics based flight model and you could fly aerobatic manoevres like in no other sim.

 

In my opinion a Dr.I doing the flat turn may be able in a flight sim with fluid dynamics based FM but not with a table based one.

 

BTW, Hellshade, Voss could do the flat turn which would give him huge advantage over any other plane because it is reported to be a very tight turn. But 7 SE5a were just too many.

Edited April 11, 2009 by Gremlin_WoH

[+Olham]

I remember Womenfly2 posting, that the flight model for the Dr.1 is much closer to the real thing,

if you put it from "realistic" to "easy". Worth a try, for that Voss combat and turn.

[Gremlin_WoH]

It's been tried, the only thing I can come up with is the the severe tailwind, which allowed Voss to fly very fast into the turn. And upon completing the turn those very same winds, became Head winds, generating tremendus lift. No matter what I try, I can complete about 5/8's of the turn, then my nose drops PERIOD

 

Womenfly did the turn WITHOUT any tailwind in a real Fokker Dr.I PERIOD. And OFF is a sim and not the real thing PERIOD. Read my post above why a flat turn won't work in a sim.