First Eagles, Over Flanders Fields

[WarlordATF 1]

I was browsing the forums today and it struck me that we are kinda lucky to have two great WWI flight sim groups here at Combat Ace. I fly First Eagles but i read alot of the OFF posts and i noticed that no matter how different our sims are the pilots are really the same.

 

Both groups have a strong passion for flying machines that are so dangerous they will kill you before you leave the ground if your not careful and our interest in WWI in general is so close to one another its scary. When i read a OFF post talking about a dogfight between x and y aircraft i can relate and i'm sure the OFF guys can do the same with a FE post.

 

One sim may have features that the other does not, but i think overall we can share a mutual respect for our fellow pilots and i hope we can use this forum section to mingle between both pilot groups and share storys and to some extent even share useful tactics.

 

Personally, I love all aspects of flight. I fly everything from the Wright Flyer in FS9 to my X-Wing in Star Wars Galaxies. If its got wings, i can get killed in it.

 

So lets introduce ourselves here and share our ideas on WWI flying and dieing, what do you guys say? :yes:

Edited April 13, 2009 by WarlordATF

[JediMaster 451]

All I can say is as much as I like FE and OFF, I still miss the days of RB and RB3D (when they were new and not nostalgic!). There was just something about the way Dynamix did WWI that I thought was awesome.

[ONETINSOLDIER 2]

I too have FE and enjoy flying the old canvas covered aircraft, and I know im beating a dead horse here, but wish it had the multi-play capabilities that cfs3/off has, not to mention the campaign generator. I have the phase2 files, but each time I installed it, it kept asking for the cfs3 cd, even tho cfs3 never asked for it when Id try to start the sim.

oh well.

[ArgonV 2]

Indeed there are many a fond memory around WWI simming. I've recently installed Wings of Glory via DosBox because of the wonderful campaign and storyline. :) I have yet to have my full World War I sim dream realized on a modern PC. Red Baron 1 and Red Baron II/3d came very very close... OFF is on the tip as well. Still, there is something missing. I cannot quite put my finger on it. Perhaps, it is the ground war and detail? Or the true sounds of an open cockpit?

 

My fondest memory was when I first got Red Baron II and flew over an enemy town. The chuch bells started to ring! Then the flak got me from a bridge close by and I had to make an emergency landing at a near by airfield. I tipped over, and an ambulance came to get me!

Edited April 14, 2009 by ArgonV

[JediMaster 451]

LOL, I remember the first time I heard the ambulance!

 

I liked WoG, but I never finished it. The later missions got ridiculous with the "fight 4 planes, fight 4 planes plus zeppelin at target area, fight 4 MORE planes..." You just never had enough ammo. The creaking of the crate as you pulled hard was an awesome invention for the time, though.

[ArgonV 2]

Yeah, I do find it a bit repeditive now... However the Zeppelin hunting missions are awesome! That thing blows up very nicely... The Gauntlet mode is very challenging! My dogfighting skills have improved. :D The graphics and sounds in this sim are very sweet for the era. Also, the cockpits were very detailed for the day!

[Dutch_P47M 9]

Indeed there are many a fond memory around WWI simming. I've recently installed Wings of Glory via DosBox because of the wonderful campaign and storyline. :) I have yet to have my full World War I sim dream realized on a modern PC. Red Baron 1 and Red Baron II/3d came very very close... OFF is on the tip as well. Still, there is something missing. I cannot quite put my finger on it. Perhaps, it is the ground war and detail? Or the true sounds of an open cockpit?

 

My fondest memory was when I first got Red Baron II and flew over an enemy town. The chuch bells started to ring! Then the flak got me from a bridge close by and I had to make an emergency landing at a near by airfield. I tipped over, and an ambulance came to get me!

 He ArgonV why not transforming FS to your WW1 dream game???

[Gr.Viper 131]

FS has no campaign engine at all

[Dutch_P47M 9]

FS has no campaign engine at all

 

Ok, thats what you are missing , me to. But ArgonV is not mention this, what he is missing can be fixed in the FS project or not????? he is in charge there.

But your right, yes, the RB campaign mode was subliem, it has a suck you in the screen mode, I have played a lot of WW1 and WW2 combatfly sims but never had that feeling again. I must admit that when I'm the flight leader, I always try to take them at home safely, just if it was in real life. Even feel some tears when they did not made it. Maybe RoF can bring this back to this, but reading a simhq RoF interview, I think they will not use this campaign mode or only a limited. Stil I'm using only for RB an old P4/Win98se/Voodoo3/MS-FF to play RB3d patched, can't miss it.

 

note: Lot of old RB players went to IL2 and now to OFF3.

Edited April 25, 2009 by Dutch_P47M

[ArgonV 2]

FS-WWI does not have dynamic campaign support. However, it does have dynamic missions in that you can take control of every aircraft in the mission. :)

[Dutch_P47M 9]

FS-WWI does not have dynamic campaign support. However, it does have dynamic missions in that you can take control of every aircraft in the mission. :)

 

I know, I have played FS, like the Sikorski airplane btw. And I think that what everybody miss in a flysim nowadays, the roleplay, the as in real life; site by site flying with the aces. The flysim is not populair in my country and that is not only because off the comic book plane graphics but the lack of a good virtual flying world, which a good campaign mode can supply to you. 

 

   

[themightysrc 5]

"note: Lot of old RB players went to IL2 and now to OFF3. "

 

Absolutely bang on!

 

I fell in love with RB3D, and played it to death, until commitments elsewhere forced me away from the PC. When I returned, much later, I found IL2 and various other sims - it was IL2 that hooked me. After it became clear that my kit wasn't good enough to handle IL2, I lloked for and found RB3D again, but patched the buggery out of it, culminating in WFP2 and FCJ - which I still run. FE's sort of come and gone for me, as the lack of a decent campaign mode meant that I couldn't maintain much interest in it.

 

Now I've found OFF:BH&H, I'm a happy man. All I need is a major league, industrial strength f*** off server to run it at 55555!

[PinkPanther 0]

I've flown OFF phase1 but didn't care for it enough to buy. FE is not hardcore enough (planes take off faster than an F18 jet on tarmac) so my only hope now is for Rise of Flight to give me what I really want in a WWI sim. I don't care if it doesn't come with lots of planes to fly out of the box because I appreciate quality over quantity.

[JediMaster 451]

Since it will apparently come with only TWO planes, I hope you really care nothing for quantity.

[PinkPanther 0]

Since it will apparently come with only TWO planes, I hope you really care nothing for quantity.

 

Sure...so long as the two it does come with are done very well. I'll take that over ten mediocre modeled planes any day. Besides, there will be more planes added later. Lots of sims have been released with only one plane and I have never felt I needed more.

[JediMaster 451]

Sure, sims like F4 and Flanker and Black Shark where there's a lot to learn about that plane.

 

However, there's not to much to learn about a SPAD or a Sopwith. You have an engine, stick, rudder, and MGs (maybe small dumb bombs). Flying and gunnery are the only things to learn, as in depth as they may be. You have to learn those same things to the same degree in Black Shark, plus you have things like the avionics, countermeasures, weapons that aren't guns, etc.

In short, the developers by necessity have to put a lot more effort into modeling just one plane if it's a post-50's model compared to post-WWII and earlier. So while I can accept a study sim of just an F-4 or any contemporary or later airplane, I find it hard to swallow when it's got no radar, no NAV, no radio, no missiles, no ECM, simple engines, not even retractable landing gear. What exactly are they putting all their time into?

 

Frankly, no home PC can truly model a damaged WWI bird with ripped fabric anyway, the equations are too complex and need to be approximated.

[ArgonV 2]

Sure, sims like F4 and Flanker and Black Shark where there's a lot to learn about that plane.

 

However, there's not to much to learn about a SPAD or a Sopwith. You have an engine, stick, rudder, and MGs (maybe small dumb bombs). Flying and gunnery are the only things to learn, as in depth as they may be. You have to learn those same things to the same degree in Black Shark, plus you have things like the avionics, countermeasures, weapons that aren't guns, etc.

In short, the developers by necessity have to put a lot more effort into modeling just one plane if it's a post-50's model compared to post-WWII and earlier. So while I can accept a study sim of just an F-4 or any contemporary or later airplane, I find it hard to swallow when it's got no radar, no NAV, no radio, no missiles, no ECM, simple engines, not even retractable landing gear. What exactly are they putting all their time into?

 

Frankly, no home PC can truly model a damaged WWI bird with ripped fabric anyway, the equations are too complex and need to be approximated.

 

Well, it can be a lot more tricky to fly a WW1 crate. Not one WW1 sim yet has to model many high-fidelity items you had to deal with in a WW1 crate: You've got to worry about starving fuel to the engine when inverting or even pushing down on your joystick, not over-reving your engine in a dive (No feathered props in WW1), blipping your engine on a landing or take off (Many rotaries did not have throttles). Most WW1 crates had no trim, or the trim was set on the ground and you could not adjust it mid-flight. This means you are always "flying" your aircraft, let go of the controls and your aircraft will not fly it self for the most part (Unless is was a stable recon type, like a B.E.2). You also had to worry about your guns jamming (Which can happen easily at higher alts where it's cold) and changing the ammo drum if it's a Parabellum or Lewis. Also, there was no such thing as a defroster or engine warmer so if you fly high enough your engine could freeze up, or your oil could clump up and cause your engine to fail. Constant monitoring of oil pressure is required. Sometimes, you even had to hand pump the oil mid-flight! To top it all off, you have to do this all in the midst of combat, with no help from a computer! You had to be very aware at all times. No early warning from your on-board radar! It really did come down to what man was better, and not the machine while dog-fighting. The constant fear of your crate just breaking up in mid-air, and no way to eject must have taken its toll on the WW1 pilot's mind...

[Gr.Viper 131]

ArgonV, most of what you named is in RoF

[JediMaster 451]

Again, though, other than engine management (which many other sims already have) there's nothing different about that. Maybe some of the details of WWI engine management are new, but the rest of it is technique, not technical.

I'm not saying they're not doing new things, or that it's not worth doing, or difficult to do. I'm saying a lot of this stuff has to be generic and applicable to any plane in the sim and including only 2 seems more like a ploy designed to make people pay more for more planes over anything else.

One plane at a time for DCS or F4 (before it went under) makes perfect sense. For any WWII or WWI-era plane it really isn't defensible. The only WWII study sim I ever had was B-17, and thanks to the Norden sight and controlling 4 engines and multiple turrets it really was complex and worth it.

[jomni 6]

Did anyone here play the old game called Blue Max.

Also enjoyed that one before Red Baron.

[JediMaster 451]

I remember a semi-platformer Blue Max game from the mid-80s that had little to do with WWI other than you being in a literally blue biplane.

[PinkPanther 0]

Sorry, I spoke too soon. I won't be buying RoF after all. Was just reading about the DRM that RoF will have incorporated and there is no way I am buying any game with that level of draconian DRM. I thought the DRM in Jutland was bad and never bought it because of its DRM shceme but it seems tame compared to what RoF will have. RoF requires you to be connected to their server online just to play single player mode. No way, never.

[themightysrc 5]

I'm afraid that that and the paucity of flyables has sort of done it for me. My sim of choice for WWI is now, and will remain, OFF:BH&H, particularly once the next set of planes comes out.

[Bandy 3]

... RoF requires you to be connected to their server online just to play single player mode. No way, never.

 

Geez, here I was excited to here it finally made it, and then this. I agree, no freaking way.

[WarlordATF 1]

Geez, here I was excited to here it finally made it, and then this. I agree, no freaking way.

 

I gotta agree with that, i buy single player games to give me something to do if the internet goes down. Its a shame because it looks like a good game but being forced to connect just to play SP is stupid IMO. I'll stick with First Eagles, although OFF looks really interesting too, I might give phase 2 a shot to see if my system can handle it.