*HELP* fellow Skinners!

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Hi Skin-Masters

 

Anyone know how to solve this small problem?

 

Please try and picture this in your mind, as there is no way to replicate it for you.

 

On 'some' skins, if you can imagine the aircraft turning sideways on, in flight, towards the sun or other light source...instead of a smooth transition of the skin from dark to light...the transformation is bit by bit...in other words, the lighting change on the skin is a protracted series of events, instead of one smooth transition...almost like a tiled effect as opposed to an all in one skin.

 

Whilst this is not a skin destroying, horrible effect, it nonetheless reduces the eye candy somewhat

 

A) Does that make any sense to you at all?

 

B) if you know WTF i'm talking about, can you advise me how to remedy it within Photoshop?

 

Many thanks guys

Edited April 21, 2009 by UK_Widowmaker

[RAF_Louvert 101]

Widowmaker, I have noticed something similar to this when transitioning from canvas to wood to metal. Each surface reflects light differently so at certain angles you will see quite a difference in color shades. You can adjust this to some extent by tweaking the colors and hue saturation on each of the different surface.

 

Was this the issue you were referring to Sir?

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Yes, sounds like that's it Lou..thanks matey, I will play around with Hue Saturation, and see what happens!

 

thank you

[Gous 0]

I totally understand what you talking about. I have never noticed it though..

And I have a slight suspicion that this is not the skin's problem but CFS3 problem to model the sun illumination correctly.

[Rickitycrate 10]

I thought I saw this today while flying a Roland CII in campaign. OFF stock plane, no alterations. A graduated illuminating of the planes side as the sun hit it.

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Yes, that's it exactly Rickity.

 

Interested point Gous.. If I can blame CFS3.. I most certainly will!

[bzhyoyo 0]

This only can be changed by someone with access to the Gmax source files for the plane models. Modelers assign "materials" to the polygons. Two settings are paramount: the specular and glossiness settings. If you choose the wrong value for these two settings, then you get this "walking shadows" effect. Shame the Netwings website is down otherwise I would have linked to a thread where this is discussed at length. The effect is further reduced when you apply a specular texture on your model. 

 

Here are the values I use : specular = 25, glossiness = 65. I think Polovski was using something like 50/50 for both settings on his planes. If I remember from phase 2, some crafts suffered from this problem and others not. I and Polovski exchanged some pms about it some time ago but I don't know if further steps were taken to tackle this issue with some crafts.

 

A note: this effect is more noticeable when you use wrong glossiness and specular settings, but it doesn't disappear completely AFAIK. Or I should make more testing to find THE perfect combination in Gmax.

[bzhyoyo 0]

Ooooops, should have checked before: 25/65 gives great results along with Blinn / spec= 30 / gloss = 48 / soften = 0.54 (Robby’s canvas) which are the setting Robby Bruce used for his Biff. These settings make the effect almost unnoticeable.

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Bzhyoyo..Hello!... nice to see you over here!

 

That info is very useful..thanks for posting it!..I suspect the original conversations you had with Pol, I missed...cos I hadn't started skinning.

 

This info is exactly what we need to help us noobies!...many thanks

 

(ps... I have never got to grips with understanding what a 'Specular Texture is?'

 

Perhaps you could help?

Edited April 29, 2009 by UK_Widowmaker

[bzhyoyo 0]

Thanks!

 

Specular textures are textures that control the amount of specular reflection of a model, meaning that you can make parts more shiny than others thanks to this texture. If P3 is like P2, models don't use these maps. I haven't got P3 yet but look in the aircraft folders if there are grey images with the tag xxxxxxxxxxxx_s.dds. If there are, then these are specular maps.

 

from the cfs3 SDK: 

 

Specular texture- <name>_s The specular texture defines the ‘shininess’ of the surface. Either specular or reflection should be used, not both. The specular map is a grayscale image (generally made by starting with the base texture) and then painted to refine the areas of definition. Pure white is the shiniest, pure black is completely flat. The Go-229 is a good example of what a specular map can do. 

 

So here are two shots from stock cfs3, with the Go229. 

 

The first one shows the specular effect on the left wing. Compare this wing with the second shot, taken without the specular texture. Notice how it looks flat? That's the beauty of it: it gives a more lively lighting to objects. 

 

PS1: contrary to what the SDK says, you can use a reflection map and a specular map for the same model. Of course, it looks better but it also costs fps.

PS2: owners of ATI cards don't see this effect because the drivers of the ATI graphic cards don't allow it. That was still true one year ago, but I don't know if that's still the case now. That's why I would advise everybody who's thinking about upgrading their graphic cards for OFF to choose a Nvidia card.

Edited April 29, 2009 by bzhyoyo

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Ah!...so these must be the 'grey' looking images I have seen with CFS3 aircraft skins?

Edited April 29, 2009 by UK_Widowmaker

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

These?

[bzhyoyo 0]

exactly!

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Hmm..Like you say..don't think OFF BHaH has them.

 

Is it possible (without going to Harvard!) to make these then?

Edited April 29, 2009 by UK_Widowmaker

[bzhyoyo 0]

Only the OFF team can do it as they are the ones with access to the source files. Specular textures must be assigned to the model through Gmax before being exported to cfs3/OFF. I suppose they didn't include them to save fps and to save also space on the DVD: imagine a specular texture for each skin type? That would take some space! It's just speculation from me, mind you. I think that's a bit of a shame because specular textures add so much to models in cfs3 but that's the way it is.

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Only the OFF team can do it as they are the ones with access to the source files. Specular textures must be assigned to the model through Gmax before being exported to cfs3/OFF. I suppose they didn't include them to save fps and to save also space on the DVD: imagine a specular texture for each skin type? That would take some space! It's just speculation from me, mind you. I think that's a bit of a shame because specular textures add so much to models in cfs3 but that's the way it is.

 

 

Makes sense!....with 1,000's of skins..that would take a hell of a lot of work!... for CFS3's paltry amount of skins!... M$ never pushed the boat out!

[Gous 0]

These grey looking images is the Alpha Channel. They are used mainly for skins which represent metal surfaces (and metal surfaces reflect a lot of light) and not canvas (thats why we dont see them in OFF).

[bzhyoyo 0]

no, they aren't alpha channels. In DDS format, an alpha channel is used to control transparency, not specularity (i.e. shyniness). You use it to make some parts look transparent: that's what I used for the small railway bridges in OFF. Maybe you're using the expression alpha channels because that was how they were called for FS models. The alpha channels of the bitmap files were used to control shyniness if I recall correctly (I may be wrong as I never skinned or modeled for FS).

 

As for their usefulness, I disagree: varnished dope is very reflective and to add some variations to the textures, specular textures are great. Imagine a scratch in the varnish: it will be less reflective and more matte. You can do this thanks to the specular texture, so it's a great tool to weather your textures and break the uniform lightning that looks too CGI on models.

 

Look at these pics: see how the shadows are reflected very precisely on the wings? But on the contrary, there's almost no reflections or shyniness on the tail. There's only one way to replicate that in the sim - to use a specular texture.

The second pic shows how reflective varnished dope was: you can clearly see it's almost mirror-like on the elevator where the tail is clearly reflected!

Edited April 30, 2009 by bzhyoyo

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Here is an example of a 'shiny' skin.

 

This is a pup I am working on..and this texture is just a green repaint of the wing!..no added blend / texture...just a paintcan all over!

 

Why is this so shiny, and other aircraft not?

[bzhyoyo 0]

Because of the specular/glossiness settings used in the Gmax material editor.the uniform CGI lightning I was referring to is clearly obvious here: it makes objects look like plastic.

 

Otherwise something to notice also on the SE5 pics: the rib tapes on the wing are less reflective than the rest of the wing canvas. So that is also something you can only replicate with a specular texture. So it's not only for metal parts (even if they benefit even more from the use of these textures).

Edited April 30, 2009 by bzhyoyo

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Because of the specular/glossiness settings used in the Gmax material editor.the uniform CGI lightning I was referring to is clearly obvious here: it makes objects look like plastic.

 

Otherwise something to notice also on the SE5 pics: the rib tapes on the wing are less reflective than the rest of the wing canvas. So that is also something you can only replicate with a specular texture. So it's not only for metal parts (even if they benefit even more from the use of these textures).

 

 

Yes, i see...well with a lot of weathering and a smidge of Gaussian Blur..I might take that shinyness out a bit

[Gous 0]

no, they aren't alpha channels. In DDS format, an alpha channel is used to control transparency, not specularity (i.e. shyniness). You use it to make some parts look transparent: that's what I used for the small railway bridges in OFF. Maybe you're using the expression alpha channels because that was how they were called for FS models. The alpha channels of the bitmap files were used to control shyniness if I recall correctly (I may be wrong as I never skinned or modeled for FS).

 

Oh yes. I have tried some repaints in FS9 and thats why I recall it as "shinyness" control.

[RAF_Louvert 101]

Bzhyoyo, great info on this issue! Thank you very much for sharing. I will be noting it in my paint folder for future reference.

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

[sandbagger 1]

Hi all,

Most, but not all, aircraft in BHaH have a specular file. These are located in the applicable aircraft folder in Campaigns/Campaign Data/Aircraft. As stated, these specular files are basically the basic aircraft in greyscale and with no squadron markings etc and the DDS files carry the 's' file indentification.

 

Not all aircraft in BHAH have a specular file.

[sitting_duck 3]

Thanks!

 

Specular textures are textures that control the amount of specular reflection of a model, meaning that you can make parts more shiny than others thanks to this texture. If P3 is like P2, models don't use these maps. I haven't got P3 yet but look in the aircraft folders if there are grey images with the tag xxxxxxxxxxxx_s.dds. If there are, then these are specular maps.

 

from the cfs3 SDK:

 

 

 

So here are two shots from stock cfs3, with the Go229.

 

The first one shows the specular effect on the left wing. Compare this wing with the second shot, taken without the specular texture. Notice how it looks flat? That's the beauty of it: it gives a more lively lighting to objects.

 

PS1: contrary to what the SDK says, you can use a reflection map and a specular map for the same model. Of course, it looks better but it also costs fps.

PS2: owners of ATI cards don't see this effect because the drivers of the ATI graphic cards don't allow it. That was still true one year ago, but I don't know if that's still the case now. That's why I would advise everybody who's thinking about upgrading their graphic cards for OFF to choose a Nvidia card.

 

Stumbled to this post from a google search....

 

I've been trying to figure out why some ppl (even those with top of the line Nvidia cards) dont see the reflection in things like the N17 mirror, and some of the planes guages...

 

 

http://forum.combatace.com/neiuport-mirror-t45480.html/page__view____hl____fromsearch__1

 

http://forum.combata...__fromsearch__1

 

Pol came back with the fact that ati wont show s_specular. Dont really know that much about what i am researching, but everything i have seen indicates what you see in the mirror something more along the lines of a cube map,,or a gloss map (or a reflection map...).

 

Anything you can think of that might help would be appreciated...

Edited September 8, 2009 by sitting_duck