F-102 weapons

[krgf15]

Been out of the loop for about two months, and cant figure out why my weapons arent showing up. They should be but arent. Anyone else having this problem?

[+ST0RM]

Which sim?

 

Do you have the most current weapons editor?

[tommyhawk]

i have a problem too. i can´t fire the weapons. if i do that, the game kicks me

[GwynO]

I noticed something too, not sure if it's a "problem" but this is what happened to me. I was chasing a flight of Beagles armed with the default loadout of infra red and radar Falcons plus rockets. I got a beagle locked from his 7, flying lead pursuit. But try as I might, I could not loose the weapon, even at 1 mile, a couple hundred feet below and still at his 7, I only allowed myself to get that close out of curiosity why the missile wouldn't loose off. I reasoned that the tracers were just a little too close at this point so switched to rockets and hosed him, not a single hit, so slammed the boards out, switched to the heater Falcons and downed him with one shot. I have read that the real Falcons weren't very impressive, for example the G being useless after 2 minutes due to running out of sensor coolant, but I would have thought the F would be able to lock on a Beagle sized target from within 5 miles no problem. Perhaps I was unlucky, will try again later when I finish work.

[mppd]

Which weapons pack are you using - check the weapondata.ini values for the missiles being used. If you are using the stock WOV install, TK made the AIM-4D all but useless - worse than the AIM-9B Sidewinder in accuracy and launch reliability.

 

Air Defense Command had a somewhat better opinion of the Falcon. Annual live missile firing at Tyndall AFB, as well as the much-publicized William Tell Missile Meets routinely had Falcon's give direct hits on Firebee Drone targets (and the contact fuzing arrangement on the missile fins requires a direct hit to detonate). This was more often than not against a relatively slow non-maneuvering target against a cold clear blue sky - I suspect it would do as well against TU-95/IL-28 type targets.

 

Tactical Air Command's 25th TFS at Eglin did a thorough evaluation during 1966 of the AIM-4D for use by TAC - they had similar excellent results - including exploring the head-on capability of the ultra-sensitive seeker. This lead to the F-4D to be equipped with the Falcon instead of the Sidewinder when its debut in Southeast Asia took place in the spring of 1967 - where it was fired from high -G turns at maneuvering fighter-sized targets, most often fired well out of launch parameters by F-4 flightcrews that had no experience with the weapon whatsoever (the Ault/Red Baron Reports stated time and time again that aircrews often had no idea where the envelope even WAS in the heat of combat). The Falcon seeker cooling issue was legitimate - especially for fighter combat, and carried externally on the F-4, its delicate seeker dome became marred by rain and particles in flight. Maintenance of all missile types in the theater was stated to be woefully inadequate or non-existant - where the rounds were carried constantly without any of the hand-fed tweaking that ADC missile maintenance personnel were famous for.

 

8th TFW C.O. Robin Olds' well known and famous distain for the Falcon was well deserved in SEA - for the use it was put to there. ADC against bombers would have done much better.

 

Mike D.

Edited May 3, 2009 by mppd

[krgf15]

What I mean is that nothing comes out in the loadout screen

[+Dave]

I had to adjust the diameter and length limit in the data.ini to get mine to show up.

[+FastCargo]

Also, certain Falcons could not be carried. The later AIM-4F and G models could not be carried by the F-102.

 

FC

[mppd]

But the deuce lost little - the -4D had the advanced seeker system of the -4G, and a later upgrade for the rocket motor gave it the fastest speed of the early generation Falcons, and almost the range of the Sixes -4F/-4G.

 

MPD

[Lexx_Luthor]

Several sources claim the Swedes used greatly improved Falcons. Don't know in what way, but I can visualize that.

[CoopF4]

So the F-102 carried all variants of AIM-4 except for the F and G? Even the E?

[+Dave]

So the F-102 carried all variants of AIM-4 except for the F and G? Even the E?

 

That is correct.

 

Several sources claim the Swedes used greatly improved Falcons. Don't know in what way, but I can visualize that.

 

They basically ripped the guts out of them and put improved electronics.

[krgf15]

I had to adjust the diameter and length limit in the data.ini to get mine to show up.

 

Awesome!! It worked, but I still have a problem..

 

I can carry every missile but the AIM-4. My AIM-4s work in the game on the F-4, so I know its there.

 

Anyone have any solutions?

[mppd]

So the F-102 carried all variants of AIM-4 except for the F and G? Even the E?

 

The -4E/F/G Super Falcons are all the same larger size - not used on the F-102. The AIM-4A/C/D are the non-nuc deuce Falcons. The C was replaced by the D model (made by modifying -4C airframes) from 1963 on I believe. The AIM-4B was an interim infrared-guided model that no one can provide any concrete info on - it may never have actually seen service. The D model is distinctive in that it was painted white/red, the others were all red on the F-102.

 

*Edit: Further research on the Internet shows that 10,000 AIM-4B models were completed by Hughes - so I guess it DID see service! The original AIM-4 RH model had 4080 built, the AIM-4A 12,000, the AIM-4C 16,000. Conversions to -4D involved 13,500 units.

Edited May 4, 2009 by mppd

[+FastCargo]

Also,I put very specific restrictions on the missile bays to keep visual clipping to a minimum.

 

I've posted a weapon station adjustment for the center missile bay in the F-102 release thread for those who want to carry the wider AIM-26 Falcons which could fit only in the center bay.

 

From what I've been able to gather, the AIM-26 was wider, and slightly longer than the eariler Falcons, but not as long as the E/F/G models, that's why it could fit into the center bay (after you replaced the center bay doors with ones that could not carry FFARs).

 

For those having issues with weapons, remember that the weapon bays are fully automatic...no opening bay doors needed.

 

Also, this model and the FFARs are poly heavy, and I do a bit of trickery to get the FFARs to look and work right, which may cause problems on older/slower computers.

 

FC

[CoopF4]

So it would seem the in its later years, the F-102 carried radar-homing AIM-4A's and IR-guided AIM-4D's as its principal weapons, with some aircraft modified to use the AIM-26A and AIM-26B in the center bay.

 

Anyone know if certain variants other than the AIM-26 were limited to certain stations. For example could IR AIM-4C's be carried in any of the six weapon stations? Could radar-guided AIM-4A's be carried in any of the six? I'm sure the fit was usually three of each type of guidance system, but I'm just asking for interest's sake.

[mppd]

I had an acquaintance who loaded weps on deuces in Spain, and later with the Conn ANG at BDL - he described typical loads, and yes all standard AIM-4s could be carried on any rails. Typical loads were A-D-A fnt, D-A-D rear according to him. I have seen Idaho ANG and 509th FIS at Clark with 2xAIM-26B, 4xAIM-4D. The one thing he said was that when hot, the airplane never stood alert with empty rails. Never. Plus full load of 2.75 in FFARs -12 or 24 whichever it was capable of carrying.

Edited May 5, 2009 by mppd

[CoopF4]

Great info! Always helps to have a source be someone who was there. Did he make any mention of the AIM-4E, AIM-4F, or AIM-4G models on the Deuce?

[mppd]

Coop,

The Super Falcon series was not designed for use on the F-102 and as far as I know, will not fit into the bays.

[CoopF4]

I didn't think so either, but a good question comes of this.

 

The F-102 left the USAF inventory in 1976 (not counting drones), yet apparently the AIM-4D was retired in 1973. If both are true, then what IR-guided AAM did the F-102 use until its final retirement. Surely, they didn't fly unarmed for three years?

[mppd]

TAC or USAFE may have stopped flying AIM-4Ds on their Phantoms in 1973, but ADC/ANG retained the Falcon for the duration of the F-102/F-101B service life. The Nuclear Falcon supposedly remained in the stockpile into the 1990s - long after the deuce was gone.

 

The Super Falcon F/G models stayed in ADC/ANG inventories into the 80s for the service life of the Six. The AIR-2 Genie was retired by 1985 supposedly, but it had not been on alert airplanes for a lot longer than that. Reports of erratic flight characteristics (it was unguided) abound.

 

A major rethinking of flying with nucs took place after the Palomares incident in 1966, after which SAC ended its airborne alert program. ADC never flew its alert planes with nucs after the Cuban Crisis (and it was a big deal relocating acft carrying them during those days - no formation flying to prevent a mid-air, double safety wiring arming switches, etc.)

 

ANG F-89Js were only equipped to carry the AIR-2A, but stood alert unarmed - supposedly they would fly to the nearest active-duty nuc weapons storage site to upload the wpns in time of war or something.

[CoopF4]

Oh, okay. I must admit that 1973 info I got was just in passing so for it to be related to F-4's would certainly make sense.

 

So we can assume them that the Deuce carried the AIM-26B, AIM-4A, and AIM-4D to the end of its serving days?

 

Did Greece and Turkey also get the AIM-26B and AIM-4D?

 

Also, anyone know what specific Falcon variants the F-101B carried?

[CoopF4]

Okay, okay Stormtrooper I'll let it die.....

 

Just trying to tap into a potential good resource that is this site.

 

For the record I've been all over Google trying to find answers to questions like those. If you find them, please provide me a link because many sources aren't that detailed.

 

I have a ton of reference material on the Deuce (I even bought a Dash 1 for it...a flight manual for you non-military folks)....trust me, Google isn't as useful for some of these questions as one would think.

[mppd]

Greece and Turkey received export AIM-4A/D - not AIM-26B I believe. Most or all C- models converted to D- model Falcon by then anyway. The Voodoo carried same versions as the deuce - no AIM-26, no Super Falcon. The Voodoo seemed to carry the IR versions more often - I can't find any photos of anything other than AIM-4D loaded on real alert birds. Same export to Canada - again, only AIM-4D ever seen in few photos of hot birds.

 

Although the AIR-2A was forced upon Canada by CincNORAD, the weapons were stored and maintained by USAF personnel at storage sites within Canada, and never uploaded on CF-101B alert birds until time of war.

 

And you are right -Wiki and Google only go so far...lots of misinformation and BS IMHO. I'll place my money on stories from folks who were there. (Hey, I think that's the first time I ever used an Internet acronym...!)

 

Mike

Edited May 7, 2009 by mppd

[CoopF4]

It would seem that most of us can agree that the F-102 never carried the AIM-4E. I read somewhere there weren't even that many AIM-4E's built. Seems that it was probably quickly supplanted by the AIM-4F.

 

Thanks for all the info gents. It's a pleasure to learn stuff like this. Sometimes you can't beat a forum for the wealth of knowledge it provides.