von Richthofen DR1 Photos

[RCAF_Dudley 0]

Hi,

 

I have scaled down the photos and I can now load and post them successfully. So, as I was saying...

 

I recently had the opportunity to visit the Royal Canadian Military Institute (RCMI), which is on University Ave. in Toronto. The RCMI displays many items from Canada's notable military history. In the their aviation section, is a display case showing remnants from Manfred von Richthofen's Fokker DR1 Triplane. I took the following photos of these items as I thought they might be of interest.

 

I've also included the descriptive text that's next to these items in the display.

 

The display case in the RMCI:

 

Provenance of von Richthofen seat, fuselage fabric, wingtip in Museum collection.

 

In 1920, Captain Arthur Roy Brown, D.S.C.* presented the seat and fabric to the Canadian Military Institute. (After Brown obtained the fabric from the Fokker Triplane, his squadron mates ripped out the the cross center, signed their names to a white linen panel, and fixed it to the cross center. The names are still visible today).

 

Brown also had the wingtip, and gave it to his friend, then-Lieutenant-Colonel William "Billy" Bishop, V.C., D.S.O.*, M.C., D.F.C. In 1968, Bishop's son Arthur presented the wingtip to the Royal Canadian Military Institute.

 

Generation of Institute members, their guests, and professional reasearchers have studied the von Richthofen seat, fabric, and wingtip.

Edited June 2, 2009 by RCAF_Dudley

[RCAF_Dudley 0]

 

Manfred von Richthofen's Fokker Triplane Seat, 21st April 1918.

 

 

 

Seat of Germany's "Red Devil."

 

 

 

The curved aluminum/plywood seat had a red linen covering. Only fabric scraps around the seat edges remain today.

 

 

 

Bullet holes in the seat?

 

 

 

The holes in the seat's center are not bullet holes, but are mounting holes which joined the seat to the aircraft's internal frame.

 

 

 

"The Red Air Fighter" died in this seat.

 

 

 

Around 1045 hours on 21st April 1918, near Corbie village, Somme River Valley, France, Rittmeister Manfred Freiherr von Richthofen, the 80 victory German "ace" fighter pilot, died in this seat.

Edited June 2, 2009 by RCAF_Dudley

[RCAF_Dudley 0]

 

(Sorry about the flash, but this shot came out the best)

 

Manfred von Richthofen's Fokker Triplane Fuselage Fabric, 21st April 1918.

 

Fabric "skin" of the Fokker Triplane.

 

The aircraft had a linen fabric "skin" strengthened, tightened, and waterproofed with layers of applied airecraft dope.

 

How red is red?

 

The "skin" was then painted a distinctive red colour. Military aviation historians and artists are interested in the fabric because it shows through visual and microscopic study, the exact shade of red: "Lake Red Methuen 9 (C-D) 8."

 

Germany's military aircraft markings.

 

From early 1918, smaller, straight-sided black/white crosses identified German military aircraft. This cross is from the port side of von Richthofen's aircraft.

Edited June 2, 2009 by RCAF_Dudley

[RCAF_Dudley 0]

Manfred von Richthofen's Fokker Triplane Wingtip, 21st April 1918.

 

 

 

A lifting surface of the Fokker Triplane.

 

 

 

This is the middle or lower starboard wingtip of von Richthofen's Fokker Triplane.

 

 

 

Wingtip reveals Fokker Triplane construction.

 

 

 

Fokker Triplane wings were built around light, strong plywood/spruce box spars. Plywood leading edges, ribs, and stiff wire trailing edges gave the wings their shape.

 

I thought some might be interested in the construction of the wing, so took multiple photos of the section.

 

Personal comment on the wingtip: The wingtip is described as being from the middle or bottom wing. I find it curious that the trailing edge of the wingtip is concave. This suggests to me that the section might really be from the top wing with the concave edge being for the aileron. The Fokker Triplane only had ailerons on its top wing. However, I am an amateur. Perhaps others more knowledgable can correct me.

 

Edited June 2, 2009 by RCAF_Dudley

[Test Pilot 0]

Great pictures, thanks for sharing!

[Hasse Wind 46]

Thanks for posting these pics, they are excellent!

 

That seat sure looks comfortable...

[OvS 8]

Thanks for posting these pics, they are excellent!

 

That seat sure looks comfortable...

 

Thanks for posting these. You have confirmed 2 of my suspicions about the Dr.1 and MvR's red Balkenkreuz.

1. The Dr.1's main spar was weak by design, and certainly wouldn't have lasted very long in the weather. Just looking at the cross-section and noting the extremely thing walls of the spar denotes that. Although these pieces are 90+ years old now, it still does not eliminate the idea that warping would have occured no matter what. The design was light, and made to be strong, but certainly it was not made to last very long.

 

2. MvR's Balkenkreuz crosses were field painted! Now, I know by mid-March 1918, all German planes were to be remarked with the new Balkenkreuz, but I always thought MvR's all-red Dr.1 was taken out of service and totally repainted from the Iron Cross version, and not painted in the field. But that proved it, his Dr.1 was painted at the field, and not given any more special treatment than any of the other members of his Jasta.

 

That says a lot about MvR, unlike his lovely friend Göring, who wouldn't DARE seat himself in anything other than something that was factory fit and brand new.

 

OvS

[Olham 164]

Dudley - do you know any links to the colour reference you mention? I can't find any.

 

Does anyone know, what the seat metal is? Is it steel? And how much bulletproof would that be? (Or not...)

[Gous 0]

Does anyone know, what the seat metal is? Is it steel? And how much bulletproof would that be? (Or not...)

 

Uh oh...don't tell me you are going to replace your office's seat with a replica of the MvR's chair .

Edited June 2, 2009 by Gous

[Dej 17]

Dudley - do you know any links to the colour reference you mention? I can't find any.

 

I don't recognise the format of that Methuen reference, maybe some of the expert modellers do, but Methuen 9C8 is equivalent to FS11105 which is: Click here!

[JFM 18]

425/17 went through two cross changes in-field. First, from the standard iron cross version with which it had been produced to the "thick" (25cm wide) Balkenkreuze. Next, from this thick cross to the 15cm wide narrow cross with which the plane was captured.

[Olham 164]

Hi, Dej - thanks for the link to the FS colours.

In that site, it was possible to enter other numbers and check the colours as well.

And so I entered the FS equivalent number for the colour RLM Red. It was almost looking the same.

 

I have always thought, that in those early days of industy, they would only have had small variety

of colours, and wouldn't have changed it much from 1918 - 1939.

 

RLM 23 Rot (FS 31136) is almost identical to the number you sent. I believe, this is the colour, that was

painted on MvR's Fokker.

[Womenfly2 0]

Dudley - do you know any links to the colour reference you mention? I can't find any.

 

Does anyone know, what the seat metal is? Is it steel? And how much bulletproof would that be? (Or not...)

 

RCAF_Dudley, Thanks for the fantastic pictures!

 

Olham; Color reference, go to the Aerodrome forum you will find an unlimited source of info on the color and references to matching it there.

 

The seat was aluminum. If MvR was shot from below, or as some believe above, should there not be a bullet hole in the seat? The cockpit of a Dr.1 is very tight an it is impossible to be out if the seat in it ... so?

 

Just curious.

 

Cheer,

WF2

Edited June 2, 2009 by Womenfly2

[Womenfly2 0]

I don't recognise the format of that Methuen reference, maybe some of the expert modellers do, but Methuen 9C8 is equivalent to FS11105 which is: Click here!

 

This is a little OT; but, could someone post this color chip with a landscape background as seen if you were flying over the Dr.1 and one with a sky background as one would view her from the side. Just curious on how the color hue and tones are changed by the background color/s.

 

Cheers,

WF2

[Olham 164]

It would be much more complex and complicated than that, WomenFly2.

So, I had realised, that the underside grey-blue of German WW2 craft looked pretty dark from

close on. But then I made 50x 50 cm proofs, and put them 10 m, 25 m, and 50 m away.

The further away they were, the brighter and shinier they became.

Also important, whether the colour was applied on metal or canvas, and if another colour was

overpainted (shining through effect). And another point: in which angle to the sun the colour

is seen.

A colour is just a material, that reflect light of a certain frequency - very difficult to match.

[Olham 164]

To add another story about colours in combat:

 

the Germans had painted their Afrika Corps tanks in some dirty sand-like ockre.

But at the various stages of sunlight, they would appear darker sometimes in front of the surrounding sand.

The British found a better colour, that was looking rather absurd for a military vehicle:

they chose Pink. And the Landrovers of the desert rats got the nick name "Pink Panthers".

 

But it reflected the sunlight at any time of day so, that the vehicle fitted almost invisibly into the background.

Edited June 2, 2009 by Olham

[JFM 18]

WF2, MvR was hit on his side below the right armpit, the entry wound being at his ninth rib (the exit wound was two inches higher than the entrance wound, between the fifth and six ribs and located "about half an inch below and three quarters of an inch external" to the left nipple), so the bullet passed in front of where the seat curves downward.

[Womenfly2 0]

WF2, MvR was hit on his side below the right armpit, the entry wound being at his ninth rib (the exit wound was two inches higher than the entrance wound, between the fifth and six ribs and located "about half an inch below and three quarters of an inch external" to the left nipple), so the bullet passed in front of where the seat curves downward.

 

I see, looking at the D.vIII seat being the same as the Dr.1, it was one lucky shot.

 

 

Olham; thanks for the great rely. It is truly amazing how the basic color can look so different. All based on the world in which the color is viewed, which wildly plays with all of its inherent attributes.

 

Cheers,

WF2

Edited June 2, 2009 by Womenfly2

[+Polovski 460]

Hmm from that you could see the bullet could have come from behind to the side too :) (can-o-worms inc)

 

WF2 by the way in that pic the sides inside of the wing cut out look flat (well either side does) and the middle more shaped/domed, is that so?

[JFM 18]

Cool photo WF2! You can see if that person's right hand held the control column the arm would be elevated a bit and expose more of the right ribs. Also, it occured to me that MvR was bundled in all that bulky flight gear (he looks awfully roly-poly in that photo of him walking to his Dr.I 127/17 on the J11 flightline) and thus his body would not not have been flush against the rear of the seat.

[Olham 164]

As one of the members of Can-O-Worms Inc. I had to do it - sorry, WomenFly2!

Edited June 2, 2009 by Olham

[+Polovski 460]

perfect Oldham, Capt Brown it is :D

but looks painful sorry WF2

[JFM 18]

Yep, Brown's diving attack from MvR's port side produced another magic bullet!

[Womenfly2 0]

Hey Guy's, that is great how you showed that MvR could have been hit from below. Makes it hard to believe that the shot came from Brown, there would have been a hole in the seat back then, correct?

 

POL: The wing cutout is finished with leather padding that is mounted to a board then fastened to the flat areas of the cutout frame, as such .....

 

Cheers,

WF2

Side note here: That is not me in the cockpit, its Achim's wife.

See my photo below the D.vIII.

 

[Villicus 0]

To add another story about colours in combat:

 

the Germans had painted their Afrika Corps tanks in some dirty sand-like ockre.

But at the various stages of sunlight, they would appear darker sometimes in front of the surrounding sand.

The British found a better colour, that was looking rather absurd for a military vehicle:

they chose Pink. And the Landrovers of the desert rats got the nick name "Pink Panthers".

 

But it reflected the sunlight at any time of day so, that the vehicle fitted almost invisibly into the background.

 

That's pretty interesting. Before going to Desert Storm we painted our Hummers what we thought was a sand color, but after it dried it was a very light shade of pink. It was almost embarrassing to look at, but it worked out quite well. The paint never looked pink in any photos we took though.