American order of medals.

[zoomzoom 2]

Anybody know what the American order of medals reciept is? Just curious. I have a career American pilot flying camels, and he just recieved his second Congressional Medal of Honor. Is this kinda like the Germans sometimes getting two Iron crosses?

 

ZZ.

[tttiger 0]

The American medals are totally screwed up in OFF, reflecting the fact that it is, after all, a British and Commonwealth game. This also is evidenced by an almost complete lack of biographical profiles of American aces (even Rickenbacker is missing!) while all Brit, French and German aces are profiled.

 

OFF (or BHAH, a truly unpronounceable acronym -- Bee-hah?) shows the Medal of Honor as the lowest award for 5 kills. Instead, it is, of course, comparable to the Victoria Cross, the highest award for gallantry. In the game you get the VC only after you get 30 kills. I've never been able to get an American pilot in the game to 30 victories (even if they live I hit Nov. 11 first) to see what the "ultimate" American medal is in the hopelessly flawed OFF scheme of US decorations.

 

The correct order of precedence for American WWI medals for valor is: Medal of Honor (highest for valor), Distinguished Service Cross or Navy Cross (second highest for valor -- not to be confused with the Distinguished Service Medal, the highest non-combat award), Silver Star (third) and Citation Star (fourth).

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=B1cMtKQP3...4#PRA2-PA767,M1

 

It would seem to me that a sim that beats its chest so loudly about being historically correct could at least get the US medals and biographies straight.

 

This has come up several times before to a chorus of yawns from the "developers."

 

ttt

Edited June 10, 2009 by tttiger

[buddye 1]

Well, as an American and a developer on another flight sim, it does seem to me to be a rather a "low" priority issue considering the scope of the flight sim and how busy the developers can get.

Edited June 10, 2009 by buddye

[Hellshade 110]

http://books.google.com/books?id=B1cMtKQP3...4#PRA2-PA767,M1

 

It would seem to me that a sim that beats its chest so loudly about being historically correct could at least get the US medals and biographies straight.

 

This has come up several times before to a chorus of yawns from the "developers."

ttt

 

That's true ttt. Those slackers at OBD should be ashamed of themselves. 3,200 historically accurate paint schemes on planes right down to the writing on the wheels is a pittance. 12 historical fronts complete with squadrons that move to the correct location by date, are rostered as near as historically possible and even switch between new and older planes just as they did at the time depending on parts availabilty is a complete sham!!! Historically accurate weather from 90 years ago. Real planes from real squadrons flying on genuine missions on the day they flew them. FM characteristics as realistic as it is possible to model them based on descriptions and within the limits of the games engine. But they can't even get the damn American medals right?!? What the hell have these people been doing with their time?!? Slackers, one and all at OBD!!! I demand Justice!!! I feel like I've been slapped in the face with a haphazardly thrown together bit of code that obviously bears NO resemblance to the facts of the day!!! Clearly we've all been hornswaggled and I thank you for pointing out this outrageous deficiency that these deviant developers have tried to sweep under the rug. And they say "historically accurate" as if they have facts to back it up. Pfft!! The nerve!!!

 

Now if you'll just kindly point me in the direction of the WWI flight sim that has done a better job in any, let alone all, of these areas, I'll be happy to plunk my cash down.

 

<waits patiently for the answer>

 

*crickets chirping*

 

<waits more>

 

*more crickets chirping*

 

Gosh tttiger. Maybe for $39.95, these few folks have put together the most historically accurate WWI flight sim available on the market today or even for the forseeable future. Is every single detail of a four year long World War 100% modeled accurately? Gee no, I guess not. That's not really possible, is it? What did you expect? Digitally enhanced photos of every single pilots face mapped onto the pilots in their respective planes like Madden NFL Football does with it's football players? Sorry the Devs are all too busy modeling new aircraft to add to the game for us to enjoy instead of re-arranging the medals box that we see for 10 seconds out of every flight. Of the two, I'm pretty sure the rest of the folks who purchased the game would prefer the additional planes. I think they have every right to "thump their chests" about the historical accuracy of BHaH. Nothing else comes close. Unless you believe maybe that RoF got it 100% historically right by showing WWI was fought between a total of 2 different flyable types of airplanes (that for some reason couldn't take off without an active internet connection)? Sorry that they didn't "at least get the medals right", for you. Maybe they were too busy with several thousand other historically accurate details and still get it done in under a decade.

 

Maybe you could "at least" learn to appreciate that little fact.

 

Hellshade

[Dej 17]

Blimey! That rant is an enjoyable read Hellshade. It reminded me again just how much is in this conversion in case I should forget and I appreciate that.

 

Not sure tttiger is quite as unappreciative of BHaH as he seems and he's in the same group as many others (me included occasionally) who want everything to be perfect because so much already is .

 

Anyway, I came onto the thread only to say that I know the medals are being worked on by Paarma and colleagues and from what's been posted the new system looks awesome. Not sure when it'll be released though.

 

Meanwhile, here's a suggestion. If you swap around the file names for the US medal images in the medals directory you can have the correct medals come up... you just need to be sure of what the sequence was in WW1 as many American pilots received French awards prior to joining the USAS proper, I believe, which may screw that up.

Edited June 10, 2009 by Dej

[SirMike1983 3]

They are out of order, but I'm willing to overlook that, considering the gameplay itself is so good. A lot of work is in Phase 3, to make the flying experience so good. This game is a gem on the whole. Sure, it isn't perfect, but that imperfection is something the developers share with the rest of mankind. These are people who do good work, though we have to remember they are people still.

Edited June 11, 2009 by SirMike1983

[+Polovski 460]

Yawns? Come on that's not fair. Yawns are from the 3am finishes for years in the run up to making P3 ;)

 

Medals are being so overwhelmingly addressed in P4 that you will fall off your seat. We are stunned at the work Paarma has done so I think you may be suitable impressed too. There are MANY things that need adding. Like another 60 aircraft for a start, but hey we only have the whole war to do yet ;)

 

Aces (yes even more BIOs/ details/skins) will also be more complete, again there is rather a lot of detail for any developer to try to cope with let alone our little band. We are getting there...

[Hellshade 110]

Yawns? Come on that's not fair. Yawns are from the 3am finishes for years in the run up to making P3 ;)

 

Medals are being so overwhelmingly addressed in P4 that you will fall off your seat. We are stunned at the work Paarma has done so I think you may be suitable impressed too. There are MANY things that need adding. Like another 60 aircraft for a start, but hey we only have the whole war to do yet ;)

 

Aces (yes even more BIOs/ details/skins) will also be more complete, again there is rather a lot of detail for any developer to try to cope with let alone our little band. We are getting there...

 

60?!? P4?!? Whole war?!? We heard it on this thread first folks. :)

 

Thanks Pol,

Even if your kidding you just made my night.

 

/salute

Hellshade

[tttiger 0]

That's true ttt. Those slackers at OBD should be ashamed of themselves. 3,200 historically accurate paint schemes on planes right down to the writing on the wheels is a pittance. 12 historical fronts complete with squadrons that move to the correct location by date, are rostered as near as historically possible and even switch between new and older planes just as they did at the time depending on parts availabilty is a complete sham!!! Historically accurate weather from 90 years ago. Real planes from real squadrons flying on genuine missions on the day they flew them. FM characteristics as realistic as it is possible to model them based on descriptions and within the limits of the games engine. But they can't even get the damn American medals right?!? What the hell have these people been doing with their time?!? Slackers, one and all at OBD!!! I demand Justice!!! I feel like I've been slapped in the face with a haphazardly thrown together bit of code that obviously bears NO resemblance to the facts of the day!!! Clearly we've all been hornswaggled and I thank you for pointing out this outrageous deficiency that these deviant developers have tried to sweep under the rug. And they say "historically accurate" as if they have facts to back it up. Pfft!! The nerve!!!

 

Now if you'll just kindly point me in the direction of the WWI flight sim that has done a better job in any, let alone all, of these areas, I'll be happy to plunk my cash down.

 

<waits patiently for the answer>

 

*crickets chirping*

 

<waits more>

 

*more crickets chirping*

 

Gosh tttiger. Maybe for $39.95, these few folks have put together the most historically accurate WWI flight sim available on the market today or even for the forseeable future. Is every single detail of a four year long World War 100% modeled accurately? Gee no, I guess not. That's not really possible, is it? What did you expect? Digitally enhanced photos of every single pilots face mapped onto the pilots in their respective planes like Madden NFL Football does with it's football players? Sorry the Devs are all too busy modeling new aircraft to add to the game for us to enjoy instead of re-arranging the medals box that we see for 10 seconds out of every flight. Of the two, I'm pretty sure the rest of the folks who purchased the game would prefer the additional planes. I think they have every right to "thump their chests" about the historical accuracy of BHaH. Nothing else comes close. Unless you believe maybe that RoF got it 100% historically right by showing WWI was fought between a total of 2 different flyable types of airplanes (that for some reason couldn't take off without an active internet connection)? Sorry that they didn't "at least get the medals right", for you. Maybe they were too busy with several thousand other historically accurate details and still get it done in under a decade.

 

Maybe you could "at least" learn to appreciate that little fact.

 

Hellshade

 

Hellshade,

 

Forget your meds today? Eyes counter-rotating?

 

Get a grip, boy! You're raising fanboyism to a whole new level!

 

You're putting a whole lot of words in my mouth that I never said. Digitally enhanced photos? Who said that? Not me, brah!

 

Slackers? Where in my post did you find that? Those terms are with the chirping crickets in your empty skull!

 

Have I ever said it is less than a brilliant sim? Never!

 

And I will buy P4 and any add-ons that are offered.

 

"It's GRRRRRREAT!" (Tony the Tiger)

 

But it does seem if they could get 3,400 historical skins right and accurate daily weather over a four-year war, getting two lousy medals correct isn't asking very much.

 

And if they can get all the Brit, French and German bios correct, why not a few Americans? It's just a cut and paste job from The Aerodrome.

 

Both seem a pretty easy fix to me. (Dej, fixing those medals might be an hour's work and I've been hearing about Paarma for a long time but seeing zero results).

 

I can see why zoomzoom is confused: It's wildly incorrect the way it is.

 

Oh, and I paid much more than $39.95. I bought it at the original price. And it was and is well worth it.

 

Pol, I do appreciate that you say it has been addressed in P4 and am glad to hear it.

 

But heaven help the fool who voices even the most minor criticism.

 

Hellshade the Defender goes bouncing off the walls!

 

Now, just calm down, HS. Get yourself a paper bag and take deep breaths. The fellows in the white coats are on their way.

 

To quote Woody Allen:

 

"Nothing wrong with him that can't be cured with a large dose of Thorazine and a polo mallet."

 

ttt

Edited June 11, 2009 by tttiger

[shredward 12]

OK guys,

You've each had one free swing.

Now let's play nice.

Cheers,

shredward

[Hellshade 110]

tttiger,

 

I bought it at full price too. and by all means, criticize away. OFF P3 isn't perfect and I think the devs are the first to admit that. It's not that you criticism the game that concerns me at all. It's that I think some of your criticisms are spun to be ridiculously unfair and out of proportion with reality.

 

Yawns from devs? Name a company that responded to it's user base faster with patchs after release that addressed serious issues and added flexibility to the game (multiple DMs, Workshop options). I think it's wholly unfair to paint them as uncaring. I see no other way to read that comment from you that all they did was yawn about it. You get upset that I "put words in your mouth" that you never said? That's exactly my point why I did that. Because I've never seen a dev "yawn" at requests made to improve the game. But apparently it's okay for you to put words in their mouths and make them sound like they feel a certain way when they don't. You have every right not to appreciate people putting words in your mouth that you never said. Now that you know how it feels, how about not doing it to others first? Just one of those crazy thoughts in my empty head there. I guess I'm the crazy one because you have a complete double standard on how you want to treat people verses how you expect to be treated.

 

and "for a company that beats their chest about historical accuracy, you think they'd at least get the medals right? As if there aren't thousands of accurate things in the sim already. How abount counting to 3,200 for me? Then multiply that by the amount of time it takes to research and then paint a plane. I can't imagine the thousands of hours that just went into that historical detail alone. Plus maybe, just maybe they want to spend time with their wives or kids once in awhile. Yet another crazy, empty headed thought of mine while I'm off my meds. Because obviously you know what the proper time frame is for them to get done the things that you expect to see done. Wow. If I'm on meds, maybe you should be. How egotistical are you to say that just because you aren't seeing the results you want fast enough, the devs obviously think historical accuracy is just a big "yawn" to them? Maybe the American medals weren't their priority and given the amount of pressure put on them to release P3, I'm sure they made other historical sacrifices in order to just get it shipped. There are things I'd like to see added or fixed in the game too, including the American medals, but just because what I'd like to see isn't the devs priority or doesn't get done as fast as I would like to see it done isn't a reason for me to mock them and say they can't even get the little details right and therefore make it sound like OFF P3's claim to historical accuracy is basically an empty promise. Not sure how anyone else read that comment, but that's how it came across to me quite loud and clear. Make all the valid criticisms that you want. But how about just not extrapolating out outrageous and unfounded accusations from those criticisms like because they missed that detail, it's obviously not a historically accurate sim?

 

Criticisms are fine. Pointing out the medals need to be fixed is a great thing. It lets the devs know we care. Making it sound like they don't care is completely unfair. If they didn't care you wouldn't be flying the beautiful, if imperfect, flight sim that you are. How exactly do you justify those two extremes in your head, anyway? That historical accuracy is a "yawn" but you can't name another sim that is more accurate? Of course you ripped me for pointing out the obvious discrepency in your argument. But that's cool. The fact that you can't answer that question directly pretty much is the answer, isn't it?

 

As for things I'd like improved or fixed. More planes, especially Gotha and HP bombers. Straffing of running trains bringing supplies to the front lines would rock. The ability to pick "Random Enemy Planes" in QC mode. Fixing medals and adding the ability to get more than 4 or 5 would be great. Every one of those and I'm sure more are legitimate requests. I just don't presume to say that just because I haven't seen them in the time frame that I'd like to, that OFF P3 isn't fullfilling it's promise for historical accuracy or that the devs yawn at the ideas of their user base.

Nothing could be farther from the truth. Sorry you can't see that.

 

Hellshade

Edited June 11, 2009 by Hellshade

[zoomzoom 2]

Whoa.....lets all take it down a notch or two guys.

It was just a simple question. We are all obviously thrilled with OFF, and the fact that the American medals are a bit out of whack can surely be remedied in later patches. If thats the exchange thats been made for such a great sim, I think we'll all happily accept it. I don't really care if they pin a "I ate at Hooters" button on me for surviving as an ace in an American squadron....with a game this intense, as long as I made it back in one piece....I'm thrilled. Was just a bit curious though, and thanks for the detailed input as to the progression...might help the Dev's in future clarification. Then again......I'll take a nice shiny new Nieuport 28 over correct American medals any day!!!! Hint hint...wink...wink...nudge...nudge. Priorities you know.

 

ZZ.

 

PS. To Devs re American awards. "I ate at Hooters medal"..tolerable. "I voted for Obama medal"...expect Suicide upon reciept.

 

 

 

 

Edited June 11, 2009 by zoomzoom

[Cameljockey 3]

:yu:

[shredward 12]

Tony answered Zoom's question, and with that, I think we will close.

Cheers,

shredward