+ghostrider883 526 Posted June 23, 2009 Honeywell offers F125N, a 43.8-kilo Newton thrust engine Rolls Royce proposes its Adour Mk821 turbofan BANGALORE: The Indian Air Force has set up a committee to indicate which new engine will be suited to power India’s frontline but overweight and underpowered Jaguar tactical light strike fighter. The new, lighter, high performance engine will allow the IAF to improve the Jaguar’s mission performance, especially in medium and high level sortie profiles, undertake missions which are not possible with the existing engine, reduce pilot workload and cut maintenance cost. Headed by K.V.L. Rao, an aero engine expert and former project director (propulsion systems) with the Aeronautical Development Agency, the committee has been tasked with choosing between proposals from Honeywell and Rolls Royce, both of which have replied to the request for proposal that was sent out as part of the programme for new engines for Jaguar. The multi-billion dollar programme will see an acquisition of 280 engines, including spare engines for around 120 aircraft. The committee is expected to submit its findings before the end of June. While Honeywell is offering its F125N, a 43.8 kilo Newton (kN) thrust engine, Rolls Royce, whose Adour Mk811 (32.5 kN) presently powers the IAF’s Jaguars, proposes its Adour Mk821 turbofan. Of 1970s vintage, the Anglo-French designed Jaguar has been with the IAF since 1979, when the first of the two twin-engine fighter aircraft landed in India. But from the beginning, the IAF, which has over 100 Jaguars — acquired either directly from BAE Systems or built under licence by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited — has persistently complained of a lack of thrust from the aircraft’s Rolls Royce / Turbomeca manufactured Mk804E or Rolls Royce Mk811 engines, especially during critical hot weather and high altitude missions. According to flight test engineers who were part of the team which oversaw the arrival of the first Jaguars from Britain, the high-hot weather the aircraft would have to operate in in India is the bugbear of the Rolls Royce engines. The IAF even asked Rolls Royce to tweak the engines to enhance its power, but post tweaking and a number of crashes, the IAF had the engines de-rated back to their original specifications. According to Honeywell — which showcased F125N at the Aero India 2009 air show in February — its engine boasts “improved pilot safety, lower maintenance costs and outstanding reliability.” Officials from Honeywell claim that the modular construction of F125N, with its advanced, dual full authority digital engine control system, would save the IAF $1.5billion in life cycle costs as compared to its competitor. Variants of F125 fly the Aero Vodochody CzAF L-159 and the Boeing DARPA X-45A Unmanned Combat Aerial Vehicle. Rolls Royce claims that Mk821 which is built on the proven technology of the Adour aero engines, “offers a low risk route to the twin benefits of greater thrust and lower life cycle costs.” Choosing the Mk821 also offers a high degree of commonality with the Mk871 variant which flies the IAF’s recent acquisition, the Hawk trainer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hokum 0 Posted June 23, 2009 Wow with then phasing out their Mig 23's etc i thought the Jag's would be next, but their upgrading them? I'm surprised. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stick 773 Posted June 23, 2009 Even today the Jag is one versatile adversary. And if we phased it out we would not be giving our cadets very much to choose between Western or Russian equipment...the former is quite a restricted choice anyway in our air-force...the latter is rather crash prone. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JediMaster 451 Posted June 23, 2009 Personally I'm not a big fan of the Adour thanks to its age. That said, I'm not sure the Honeywell would be better. It certainly has more power, but I don't know if its reliability/maintenance records are really well established. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hokum 0 Posted June 23, 2009 The engine does pretty well in the Hawk but i have no detail on 821. I assume its an afterburning model? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+ghostrider883 526 Posted June 24, 2009 Wow with then phasing out their Mig 23's etc i thought the Jag's would be next, but their upgrading them? I'm surprised. The Jaguars were manufactured until very recently. IAF had placed an order for new Jaguars manufactured by HAL..some two seaters & some single seat strike variants. Check pics of those new upgraded DARIN II IAF Jaguars..Notably the cannon on the starboard side has been removed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JediMaster 451 Posted June 24, 2009 I guess they don't picture doing strafing runs much anymore. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hokum 0 Posted June 24, 2009 (edited) I guess AA and MANPAD's are too cheap and advanced for that. Nice to see the Jag is still getting used, I guess its a stop gap for something home grown? I liked the jag, my only nits were the small high load wing and the thirsty engines. Though the high wing loading makes it stable at high speed and low level. The pics show some kind of LGB? But no designator? Edited June 24, 2009 by Hokum Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+Viggen 528 Posted June 24, 2009 If memory serves me right, the designator is in the nose. Do IAF Jags have the ability to carry IR missiles on top of the wings like RAF Jaguars did? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Slartibartfast 153 Posted June 24, 2009 If memory serves me right, the designator is in the nose. Do IAF Jags have the ability to carry IR missiles on top of the wings like RAF Jaguars did? Yes the Indian Jaguars do have the ability but they carry Magic IRM's. Also some Indian Mirages carry a Radar in the nose for use with the Sea Eagle Anti-ship missile. The majority though have a seeker head in the nose for laser duties cant remember if it had a designation ability. But the RAF used the TIALD system once this came into service. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+ghostrider883 526 Posted June 25, 2009 Yes the Indian Jaguars do have the ability but they carry Magic IRM's. Also some Indian Mirages carry a Radar in the nose for use with the Sea Eagle Anti-ship missile. The majority though have a seeker head in the nose for laser duties cant remember if it had a designation ability. But the RAF used the TIALD system once this came into service. Yeah, IAF Jags carry over wing Magic IIs IAF has specialised Maritime Strike variant of the Jaguar, designated as Jaguar IM. It carried the Agave radar on the nose and it looks much different than the standard strike variant. There were reports that these IMs the Agave radar was replaced by Israeli EL/M-2032 radar. As for the strike variants(IS/IB), they used Atils II for dropping LGBs., now they use Litening II LDPs. New pit: Refuel probe: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
