Higher Turn rate... how to ?

[Dagger1 7]

Hi everybody....

 

First of all am a big fan of the Mig-21... just for the fun factor I would like to learn how to mod this bird to make it more maneuverable, or have better turn rate.

 

What are the parameters I should change in the .INI files to make it turn better...

 

 

thank you...

[ShrikeHawk 384]

I'll respond since no one else has so far.

 

If this is the same mig-21 used in the Gen 1 WoX sims, then I wouldn't touch it. I think it turns very well. Fly with it's strengths in mind and you'll have a very deadly bird in your hands.

 

That said...

I'm sure others will have better ideas, but you could try reducing the stall speed towards the top of the .ini file.

[Dagger1 7]

Thanks for the advice ShrikeHawk.... it ever crossed my mind befor I will try lowering the stall speed...

 

I tried so many things before like increasing the stabilizers angle, also the control rate of the stabilizers the pitch damper.... but never tried to decrease the stall speed :)

[+Brain32 265]

add more lift to the wings(CLmax), in theory that should provide tighter turn circle, or adjust drag vs thrust for shorter turn time, although the second one will most certainly influence rate of climb and acceleration...

[Dagger1 7]

add more lift to the wings(CLmax), in theory that should provide tighter turn circle, or adjust drag vs thrust for shorter turn time, although the second one will most certainly influence rate of climb and acceleration...

 

Hi brain32...

 

so all I have to do is increase the numbers infront of the Clmax for the wing.. ya? how to adjust the drag vs thrust?

 

thank you..

[Fubar512 1,350]

Its not that simple. Flight models are almost algabraic in that what you do to one value, must be offset by the appropraite changes to another. That being said, the default Thirdwire model is pretty accurate, with the exception of its stall values. The '21 should begin to experience the onset of stall at between 17 and 20 degrees of AoA. Thus:

 

Inner Wing Panel Values (L & R):

CLmax=0.2915

AlphaStall=19.00

AlphaMax=22.00

AlphaDepart=28.00

 

Outer Wing Panel Values (L & R):

CLmax=0.2054

AlphaStall=17.00

AlphaMax=21.00

AlphaDepart=26.00

 

These will ensure that a '21, under hard settings, will stall when it should, assusming that you're flying above its rated, flaps up stall speed. Just use the AoA guage in the cockpit to verify this.

[Dagger1 7]

Its not that simple. Flight models are almost algabraic in that what you do to one value, must be offset by the appropraite changes to another. That being said, the default Thirdwire model is pretty accurate, with the exception of its stall values. The '21 should begin to experience the onset of stall at between 17 and 20 degrees of AoA. Thus:

 

Inner Wing Panel Values (L & R):

CLmax=0.2915

AlphaStall=19.00

AlphaMax=22.00

AlphaDepart=28.00

 

Outer Wing Panel Values (L & R):

CLmax=0.2054

AlphaStall=17.00

AlphaMax=21.00

AlphaDepart=26.00

 

These will ensure that a '21, under hard settings, will stall when it should, assusming that you're flying above its rated, flaps up stall speed. Just use the AoA guage in the cockpit to verify this.

 

 

Hi Fubar512...

 

I find the abbreviations so tricky for me I understood earlier that the Clmax is max climb... ya? Alpha stall is the stall speed? how about alpha depart what does it mean? if I change one of those I have to change the others too, ya?

 

I tried a little trick it worked somehow, i changed the values of the stabilizers ControlRate=2.0 to 20.0 the response of the aircraft was amazing even at lower speeds if I maintain higher speeds I could chase any jet in the sky...!

 

in RL if the mig-21 has a LEX would it be better in maneuvering?

 

thank you...

[Dagger1 7]

Sorry I forgot to ask if the corner velocity has to do with the turning radius and better maneuvering? is it better when high or low?

[Fubar512 1,350]

CLmax = Maximmum lift as a multiple, for the surface in question.

 

The rest of the value definitions are as follows:

 

CL0 Lift coefficient at zero

angle of attack (AOA)

CLa Lift coefficient due to AOA

CD0 Zero-lift drag coefficient

CDL Drag coefficient due to lift

(induced drag effect)

Cmq Pitching moment due to pitch rate

(pitch damping)

Cmad Pitching moment due to AOA rate

(aero interaction between wings and horiz tail)

Cyb Side force due to sideslip

Cyp Side force due to roll rate

Cyr Side force due to yaw rate

Clb Roll moment due to sideslip

Clp Roll moment due to roll rate

(roll damping)

Clr Roll moment due to yaw rate

Cnb Yaw moment due to sideslip

Cnp Yaw moment due to roll rate

Cnr Yaw moment due to yaw rate

(yaw damping)

CLiftdc Lift due to control surface deflection

CDdc Drag due to control surface deflection

Cydc Side force due to control surface deflection

Cldc Roll moment due to control surface deflection

Cmdc Pitch moment due to control surface deflection

Cndc Yaw moment due to control surface deflection

DeltaStallAlpha Increase in max angle-of-attack before stall

Xac X-location of aerodynamic center

 

So what's involved in properly defining values for an FM? The following should provide some insight: http://adg.stanford.edu/aa241/highlift/clmaxest.html

[Fubar512 1,350]

Sorry I forgot to ask if the corner velocity has to do with the turning radius and better maneuvering? is it better when high or low?

 

The corner speed value, as it applies to a Strike Fighters model, is simply there for the benefit of the AI, and has little (if any) effect on the player's aircraft.

[Dagger1 7]

Wow thats amazing.... alot of things are connected together in this issue I thought it's gonna be simple...

 

 

thank you very much Fubar512

[Rambler 1-1 9]

you could also try reducing the weight a bit. You'll have some side-effects like faster acceleration and climb, but less weight means less wing loading, which means you'll be able to sustain a higher turn rate at higher speeds.

 

I think the ReferenceArea, ReferenceSpan and ReferenceChord inputs may have something to do with mass centralization, but I'm not sure.

[Fubar512 1,350]

I think the ReferenceArea, ReferenceSpan and ReferenceChord inputs may have something to do with mass centralization, but I'm not sure.

 

 

Reference Area = Total wing surface area in square meters

Reference Span = Wing span, in meters

Reference Chord = Average wing chord....very impotant, as it helps average out the effects of the Xmac table between inner and outer wing surfaces.

[Dagger1 7]

reducing weight and increasing power.... ya that would help alot

[Fubar512 1,350]

http://area51specialprojects.com/video/hav...ut_tactical.swf

 

http://area51specialprojects.com/video/hav...t_technical.swf

[Sixgun 0]

I am similarly trying to figure out a way to make the A-10 flight model more realistic. At low gross weights, the Hog turns on a dime IRL, but having just started a Hog campaign, I find that strafing runs are almost impossible due to a ridiculously low pitch rate and low AOA tolerances. I can do better CAS in an F-4 in terms of re-attacking! Any ideas?

[MigBuster 2,884]

I am similarly trying to figure out a way to make the A-10 flight model more realistic. At low gross weights, the Hog turns on a dime IRL, but having just started a Hog campaign, I find that strafing runs are almost impossible due to a ridiculously low pitch rate and low AOA tolerances. I can do better CAS in an F-4 in terms of re-attacking! Any ideas?

 

What game and patch are you using because i'm sure TK made the A-10 more agile in later SF2 patches after a few requests

[Sixgun 0]

Pretty sure I'm patched to the latest and greatest...october 08. Flying with Nato IV installed. WOE1 of course.

Edited December 17, 2009 by Sixgun

[FrankD 7]

This thread should be hijacked and be force landed in the Knowledge base!