Biff Bam Boom Biff

[Duce Lewis 3]

Lately I've been running into Bristol Fighters a lot

On a good day, I lose the Flight, knock down a similar number of Biffs, stagger down to a field

Bad day, they just give us a whomping

 

Attacking from the rear is verbotten, shear suicide

Best strategy is so far:

Diving attack - hit him in plan view where that blasted rear gun can't swivel

Dive below, jinking as you pass

If he circles, try to take him on head-on but lower

Or a low beam attack

Break low after the pass jinking

 

Low stalk works too

Follow popping up nose occasionally to hit his belly

Never pull up to or above his plane of flight as the TGer will catch you hanging like a pinata

 

And most important, if they have numbers/height, dive away and fight another day

 

Had a banner day today!

3 D7 flights (12 total) were attacked by 6 Biffs

Singled out the top Biff and followed all the rules

Hit him good in plan view (TGer got me as I passed) and he broke off and ran

Chased, hitting him numerous times with short pop-ups (might have killed the TGer)

Eventually he turned in a dive to Port

Pure panic as the TGer had a clear line

No choice but to battle it out

Knocked his wing off with no return fire

 

Banked over to return to the fight but all I found were 5 Biffs

Did they wipe us out??? Whomped again???

Applied most important rule and dove for home

 

Anyone have any other Biff attack methods?

 

It seems that the TGer traverse rate of the Biff is far faster than the Re8

Passing shots are possible on the tail of the Re8 as long as you force him to traverse

The Biff, on the other hand, can riddle you no matter what angle you're at

Are the tranverse rates different?

Edited August 12, 2009 by Duce Lewis

[Hasse Wind 46]

I'm itching to start my first D.VII career - I'm sure it does a lot better against Biffs than the Pfalz!

 

Attacking them straight from behind is indeed a quick way to become a casualty. Diving attacks sometimes do the trick, especially if you manage to hit the engine or the poor guys sitting in the plane. And if you succeed in killing the gunner, fighting Biffs becomes suddenly MUCH easier.

 

They are really tough opponents.

[OvS 8]

Anyone have any other Biff attack methods?

 

Yes... avoid them... period. I shot down 2 of them 2 nights ago, last night, they kicked our butts and I died.

 

I hate them. I actually get depressed when I see them as I know I am going to die.

[Olham 164]

I don't get depressed, but too angry.

As they circle and fly waves all the time to get the rear gunner in best position,

I've given up to approach a weak spot. You can't sneak under their belly, as they move

like hell all the time.

So when they perform a left or right curve, I attack pulling into that curve and fire at the

rear gunner/pilot/engine area like hell.

I have by now downed about 7 of them - but always with the loss of my DIII engine.

My mechanics are always mad about Brisfit engagements.

Edited August 12, 2009 by Olham

[RAF_Louvert 101]

Duce Lewis, the tactics you describe seem very sound and prudent, and are nearly identical to those I use against the Hannover CL IIIa. Diving attacks from either front quarter, than zip by and jinx under the fuselage to avoid those deadly accurate rear gunners. Fly up and away and repeat. And just as with the Brisfits, attacking them when they are in their defensive formation is a quick way to die for King and Country.

 

Have I mentioned again lately how much I love this sim...and these forums?

 

Cheers!

 

Lou

 

 

[OvS 8]

I don't get depressed, but too angry.

As they circle and fly waves all the time to get the rear gunner in best position,

I've given up to approach a weak spot. You can't sneak under their belly, as they move

like hell all the time.

So when they perform a left or right curve, I attack pulling into that curve and fire at the

rear gunner/pilot/engine area like hell.

I have by now downed about 7 of them - but always with the loss of my DIII engine.

My mechanics are always mad about Brisfit engagements.

 

The problems I have start once I get a little damage. In my OAW, I couldn't outrun, out-turn, or out manuever them. The only chance I had was to bang hard rudder turns which worked for a little while, but as I came out of one, I realized I was parellel with one heading the opposite way, and his Rear Gunner plugged the hell out of me... down I went.

 

They are very agressive, and true to form. The Brisfit and Salmson 2a2 were the most feared. Especially once the Brisfit was fitted with 2 Lewis guns in the rear. It was a nasty combo.

 

OvS

[Olham 164]

Next time, I'll order my wings to attack them, and then, when they are busy,

dive into the attack to clobber one. (Although I think, I know it won't work any better - Lol!)

They are defenseless, when you come from high head on. But you rarely ever get them into

this position.

[zoomzoom 2]

Where's that tennis ball size nose cannon through the spinner when you need it!!?? Would be a nice one pass solution for these blasted Bristols! A pity they found these airframes too light to handle the recoil.

 

Oh wait...then there's the German aft flamethrower!! Yeah, we could fly over them, and when those damn accurate (can shoot me upside down and sideways with perefect accuracy while performing a barrel roll in fact!!!) Bristol gunners look up to nail you...piss a load of fire down into the blighters!! wakey wakey!!

 

ZZ.

[Olham 164]

Naw - I prefer the clean, fair fight. They really fire my ambition. Everybody can shoot down

those poor Fees (at least as long as they are not trained to do the Lufbery Circle according to

Bullethead). But these blighters can really fight!

I have thought out a new form of attack; now I only need another encounter with them.

I will try to engage one from his 12 o'clock high, firing into engine, pilot and gunner.

Only problem: the time. When both craft approach each other, there will only be seconds for

aiming and firing.

Edited August 12, 2009 by Olham

[Duce Lewis 3]

Oh wait...then there's the German aft flamethrower!! Yeah, we could fly over them, and when those damn accurate (can shoot me upside down and sideways with perefect accuracy while performing a barrel roll in fact!!!) Bristol gunners look up to nail you...piss a load of fire down into the blighters!! wakey wakey!!

And I thought I was angry at the Biffs!

zoomzoom sounds like you need a 3 day pass

...then we'll pour the napalm on those Bris-fiends

 

Lou, I like your idea of B&Zing the Hannovers

Steep angle attack is best option of attacking the Biff so far

Problem is she's so fast and climbs so well , it's hard to get out from under her & extend away

Almost always end end with some kind of shallow climbing attack

 

I still have the feeling that the Biff TGer has supernatural powers

Even in a high speed diving attack he still manges to get a quick passing shot in

Thinking ...hoping ...praying there's a decimal point off somewhere

 

OvS are there files that govern TGer performance?

[Olham 164]

That's true, Duce, they hit you even in the craziest curve, and always my engine (maybe better

than as for OvS - he's always getting shot dead).

That's really supernatural how they shoot and hit.

[shredward 12]

That's the thing - Bristol Fighters were not just two-seaters going about their business - hence the 'Fighter' in Bristol Fighter. They were crack crews, and they were out for blood. They had great machines, and they exploited their abilities, and as Stachel pointed out, they were feared by German fighter pilots above all else. For a reason.

Cheers,

shredward

[Duce Lewis 3]

I understand your point Shred

Brisfit was a formidable opponent

Great performance and the TGer had an excellent vantage point

 

But as Olham states, "they hit you even in the craziest curve"

These guys have hummingbird like reflexes and all those little bursts add up

Add to that, the AI wingies always go for a 6 O'Clock attack

They quickly get chopped up by the TGers and you're alone

 

Loss rates seem all out of proportion to RL WWI

Best fight I ever had was 4 DVII's diving on 3 Biffs

We shot all of them down but all 3 wingies crashed too ...finally I flopped her into a field

If these rates were true then the Biff not the DVII would've been considered the best WWI fighter

 

Don't get me wrong, I love the challenge of the Biff

But I'm sure he just looks at his TGer and they chortle with laughter when they spot me :black eye:

[JimAttrill 24]

As a sort-of philosophical point, I think it was the success of good 2-seaters in WWI that caused a few mistakes 20 years later in round two. These WWI two-seaters were as fast as the scouts and better armed in the back. By the time WWII came around the fighters were faster and better armed from the front, the brits with 8 rifle-caliber MGs and the Me109 with 2 MGs and two cannon. And later they had four cannon or 6 0.5 mgs.

 

So the 2-seater Zerstorer Me110 and (even worse) the Fairey Battle and Boulton-Paul Defiant were easy meat for a modern single-seater. Both air forces had to learn this the hard way.

 

The Me went on to prove itself as a night fighter but the other two ended up as target tugs or scrap.

[Bullethead 12]

But as Olham states, "they hit you even in the craziest curve"

These guys have hummingbird like reflexes and all those little bursts add up

Add to that, the AI wingies always go for a 6 O'Clock attack

They quickly get chopped up by the TGers and you're alone

 

I strongly urge everybody to use the "Less Accurate" tailgunner setting. I know, I know, this lowers your precious DiD realism score, but this is an area where I think "Less Accurate" is more realistic, so hear me out.

 

As you know, I fly the Fee a lot. The Fee has ONLY a gunner--the pilot has no weapon of his own. Yet I always fly it with "Less Accurate" gunners, because I think that's more realistic. The Fee gunner is right in front of me, so I've had ample opportunity to watch him in action, and it was from these observations that I started using the "Less Accurate" setting.

 

If you use the "Less Accurate" setting, you get the following things:

1. The gunner will only shoot at ranges of 200m or less (as shown by labels), regardless of anything else.
   
2. The gunner will only shoot when the plane is holding relatively still. It can be turning, but not too steeply, and definitely not when upside down.
   
3. The gunner can't hit fast crossing targets, but only targets with up to medium bearing rates. He'll still shoot at a fast crossing target that's within 200m, but if he hits at all (which is rare) it will only be with 1 or 2 bullets. However, he can still drill targets with low bearing rates.
   
4. The gunner doesn't shoot as often as you think he should, given otherwise good opportunities, fires in short bursts, and pauses a second or 2 between bursts.
   

OTOH, if you use "Normal" gunner accuracy, you get laser-guided gunners firing long bursts from all attitudes and at ranges up to 400m.

[Olham 164]

You may be right, Bullet - a case to make an exception.

[Hasse Wind 46]

Thanks for the tip, Bullethead, I'll give that setting a try!

 

(I've been secretly thinking about starting an RE.8 bomber career for the Brits as a way of teaching myself some humility after shooting down so many two-seaters. Maybe I'll do that with the less accurate gun settings. I already have a pilot created for this purpose in RFC 10, summer 1917.) :yes:

[Bullethead 12]

(I've been secretly thinking about starting an RE.8 bomber career

 

I won't tell anybody :).

 

But seriously, if you want to do a 2-seater career, I recommend the Fee in a fighter squadron instead of the Fee or anything else in a bomber squadron. I quickly lose interest in bomber careers because I find the bulk of their missions dissatisfying. You just don't get bombing missions very often; it's almost all recon and arty spotting, where you just wait to get intercepted. If you want to keep the pilot alive any length of time, you have to avoid combat every chance you get, which isn't very fun. OTOH, standing and fighting leads to many campaign restarts. Bombing missions are the most likely to get you killed, because you're over enemy territory, in the flak a lot, and if you want accuracy, you have to get down in the AAMG zone. But they're the only missions where you're more than just bait, so I enjoy them the most.

 

It would be nice if they had dedicated bomber squadrons that did nothing else, and dedicated observation squadrons that did nothing but recon and arty spotting.

 

OTOH, if you're in a Fee fighter squadron, you go on offensive patrols and such things, looking for trouble. And you're sure to find it. Plus you can see ahead, you get to watch your gunner hose the Huns, and you've got Mata Hari smiling at you the whole time

[Hasse Wind 46]

Yep, the Fee sure has a nice cockpit! I guess I'll have to take the plunge some day and see what those crates are made of.

 

About two-seater careers in general - maybe they could be improved in the future (P4)? Bullethead's suggestion for dedicated bomber and recon squadrons sounds good to me. And maybe there could be some kind of a camera with the recon plane for taking those all-important pics the generals in their chateaus are so interested in? That would be cool!

 

As far as I know, the awards system currently heavily favours fighter pilots, because you can only get medals for shooting down enemy aircraft, which is quite difficult to do with certain two-seaters. So maybe there should be a compeletely different system for giving awards to successful bomber/recon pilots?

 

I think it's great OFF has all those two-seaters, but there's always room for improvements. :yes:

[Duce Lewis 3]

I strongly urge everybody to use the "Less Accurate" tailgunner setting. I know, I know, this lowers your precious DiD realism score, but this is an area where I think "Less Accurate" is more realistic, so hear me out.

 

As you know, I fly the Fee a lot. The Fee has ONLY a gunner--the pilot has no weapon of his own. Yet I always fly it with "Less Accurate" gunners, because I think that's more realistic. The Fee gunner is right in front of me, so I've had ample opportunity to watch him in action, and it was from these observations that I started using the "Less Accurate" setting.

 

If you use the "Less Accurate" setting, you get the following things:

1. The gunner will only shoot at ranges of 200m or less (as shown by labels), regardless of anything else.
   
2. The gunner will only shoot when the plane is holding relatively still. It can be turning, but not too steeply, and definitely not when upside down.
   
3. The gunner can't hit fast crossing targets, but only targets with up to medium bearing rates. He'll still shoot at a fast crossing target that's within 200m, but if he hits at all (which is rare) it will only be with 1 or 2 bullets. However, he can still drill targets with low bearing rates.
   
4. The gunner doesn't shoot as often as you think he should, given otherwise good opportunities, fires in short bursts, and pauses a second or 2 between bursts.
   

OTOH, if you use "Normal" gunner accuracy, you get laser-guided gunners firing long bursts from all attitudes and at ranges up to 400m.

Good idea Bulletthead

Might make the Biff's hit rate more reasonable

But the poor ol' Re8 (and others) would take a beating

It's a challenge to outfox an Re8 now ...but it can be done

[Fliegenhund 0]

Just found this thread and realized I had posted almost the same thing this morning! I am going to try lowering rear gunner accuracy too, they seem to shred me if if inverted!