Thanks for the pretty new patch, but.............

[Vogel 0]

I've enjoyed OFF phase 3 since the beginning I just couldn't find the time or a good enough reason to post here until now. I'm not much for small talk but I can assure you that I've read the posts here well for the duration of Phase 3.

 

After installing the new superpatch I'm pretty disappointed with the increase in ground fire, AA and artillery in campaign mode. (as if it wasn't deadly enough before) Please, QC and/or missions players disqualify yourself from replying here. Sure I've read the posts about "just turn the sound down" but that also turns off the other effects controlled by this same slider and the massive AA and artillery increase is really still there.

 

Is this bothering anyone else? Is this an error in the patch, or did someone say "I don't think I'm getting randomly blown out of the sky enough, and oh... please add even more deadly AA and also make it loud, constant and annoying too." But seriously now, was this really necessary? I found the ground fire deadly enough in the previous version. Why go to extremes now?

 

I appreciate the patches and I've loved all the changes so far except this. Could this change in AA be reviewed by the developers and possibly rolled back to the previous model?

[+Winder 32]

I've enjoyed OFF phase 3 since the beginning I just couldn't find the time or a good enough reason to post here until now. I'm not much for small talk but I can assure you that I've read the posts here well for the duration of Phase 3.

 

After installing the new superpatch I'm pretty disappointed with the increase in ground fire, AA and artillery in campaign mode. (as if it wasn't deadly enough before) Please, QC and/or missions players disqualify yourself from replying here. Sure I've read the posts about "just turn the sound down" but that also turns off the other effects controlled by this same slider and the massive AA and artillery increase is really still there.

 

Is this bothering anyone else? Is this an error in the patch, or did someone say "I don't think I'm getting randomly blown out of the sky enough, and oh... please add even more deadly AA and also make it loud, constant and annoying too." But seriously now, was this really necessary? I found the ground fire deadly enough in the previous version. Why go to extremes now?

 

I appreciate the patches and I've loved all the changes so far except this. Could this change in AA be reviewed by the developers and possibly rolled back to the previous model?

 

Prior to the patch the AA was totally inaccurate and ineffective so I am sure you preferred that.

 

1) Adjust the AA effectiveness and groundfire in workshops thats what its for.

 

2) Adjust sound levels of effects in workshops that's what the settings are for.

 

When you have exhausted all those options start a poll.

 

Then I might consider if the numbers support it.

 

 

HTH

 

 

WM

[+Polovski 458]

Pretty new patch.. one way to describe it lol. Well it's not just pretty there's quite a bit of free good things in there, and we really didn't need to give it away, but hey we did.

 

The AA was wrong it was MILES away from the craft. Now they are actually trying to hit the craft radical new idea! Now you can spot enemies by flak bursts (as they really did).. before you couldn't so that was completely unrealistic.

[JohnGresham 0]

Pretty new patch.. one way to describe it lol. Well it's not just pretty there's quite a bit of free good things in there, and we really didn't need to give it away, but hey we did.

 

The AA was wrong it was MILES away from the craft. Now they are actually trying to hit the craft radical new idea! Now you can spot enemies by flak bursts (as they really did).. before you couldn't so that was completely unrealistic.

 

The new 'archie' is deadly, but I really think it adds to the immersive nature and quality of the sim, it's not just window dressing. Read any memoirs from the war and you find that it was both feared and respected by pilots. Great work chaps!

[+Polovski 458]

Thanks, also make sure you have 1.32b installed...

 

• Reduced Rate of Fire of AA guns - was too high when battles are on the go.

[Rickitycrate 10]

Bahhhh. I find now that yes the AA will alert me to the presence of E/A before I can see them. Happened today for the first time that I noticed and used the fact to my advantage. Bahhh.

[Vogel 0]

Thanks for the quick responces. Well, I guess that answers my question. How about another button in workshop then.........

 

O ------------- Even more Reduced Rate of Fire of AA guns

 

I fear you're alienating the casual player by making the sim more difficult and annoying to play.

[Olham 164]

Vogel, perhaps you fly German side first - they don't cross the lines often, and you might even use

"time advance" to avoid any such mission.

 

And please PM me your hometown and country - I would like to add you to the OFF Pilots map.

[Hellshade 110]

Thanks for the quick responces. Well, I guess that answers my question. How about another button in workshop then.........

 

O ------------- Even more Reduced Rate of Fire of AA guns

 

I fear you're alienating the casual player by making the sim more difficult and annoying to play.

 

There is also the option of uninstalling the patch and putting 1.30c back on which will put you right back to the game you loved, Sir.

 

Hellshade

[+Winder 32]

Assuming you are running 1.32b at least, and assuming you are running on AI Gun Fire and range on Easy and you still are getting beaten up by Flak (which I find strange) then I will do this:

 

I will make easy as easy (as ridiculous) as it was before 1.32 i.e Flak will be miles out....Normal and hard will remain the same.

 

I assume you did manage to turn down the sound effects volume in workshops?

 

 

WM

[Vogel 0]

Vogel, perhaps you fly German side first - they don't cross the lines often, and you might even use

"time advance" to avoid any such mission.

 

And please PM me your hometown and country - I would like to add you to the OFF Pilots map.

 

I've flown dozens of campaigns on all sides for the past 5 months and enjoyed them all immensely, but now with the new patches, not so much anymore. I'll give it some more time but I don't like coming out of warp and getting blown away almost immediately by ground fire. At first I thought it was a strange happening, but it happened so much I thought something was wrong with my installation so I reinstalled OFF, superpatch, mini patch. Not really better, there's just too much AA for my liking and I never had trouble finding enough enemy planes before!

 

I'm going to roll back to ver 1.31L to return to a point where I was having fun, and of course this means I'll not be purchasing the upcoming planes pack or Phase 4 or 5 or whatever. Realism is fine I guess but this sim is becoming snobbishly so to the point that it's much less enjoyable for me, the casual user, in it's current state. I'll leave it to the minority of the flight sim world; The OFF hardcore bunch here in which I am in awe that you all play it so.

 

What's a OFF pilots Map? I'm in San Antonio del Mar, Mexico.

[Olham 164]

Yeah, why not, Winder - easy as easy can be. For getting used to all the other things.

Later they will push it higher, cause they want more reality points. Why not, I say.

[Vogel 0]

Assuming you are running 1.32b at least, and assuming you are running on AI Gun Fire and range on Easy and you still are getting beaten up by Flak (which I find strange) then I will do this:

 

I will make easy as easy (as ridiculous) as it was before 1.32 i.e Flak will be miles out....Normal and hard will remain the same.

 

I assume you did manage to turn down the sound effects volume in workshops?

 

 

WM

 

Yes, I have installed all patches, just today 1.32c mini, and yes to your other questions. I still find the rate of fire mainly the problem, truly doesn't seem realistic to me, it's too heavy, never ceases and it's quite annoying. I would be thankful for a workshop button that would return flak to around 1.31L levels and of course the realism people wouldn't have to use it.

 

I'll hold onto the money I've set aside for the plane pak and phase 4 for awhile and if you can come up with somethign that keeps a casual user like myself satisfied, I could think of no better way to spend it.

[+Winder 32]

I've flown dozens of campaigns on all sides for the past 5 months and enjoyed them all immensely, but now with the new patches, not so much anymore. I'll give it some more time but I don't like coming out of warp and getting blown away almost immediately by ground fire. At first I thought it was a strange happening, but it happened so much I thought something was wrong with my installation so I reinstalled OFF, superpatch, mini patch. Not really better, there's just too much AA for my liking and I never had trouble finding enough enemy planes before!

 

I'm going to roll back to ver 1.31L to return to a point where I was having fun, and of course this means I'll not be purchasing the upcoming planes pack or Phase 4 or 5 or whatever. Realism is fine I guess but this sim is becoming snobbishly so to the point that it's much less enjoyable for me, the casual user, in it's current state. I'll leave it to the minority of the flight sim world; The OFF hardcore bunch here in which I am in awe that you all play it so.

 

What's a OFF pilots Map? I'm in San Antonio del Mar, Mexico.

 

Lol yeah P4 and P5 and umm addons I am sure we will miss your purchases, but seriously what version are you running - have you even tried 1.32b released yesterday to reduce RoF?

 

Snobbishly so? We have done nothing but add in easy settings and optional features to make OFF vastly more configurable than what it is out of the box.

Most of the patches to date have been all about accessibility.

 

How many times have you exited warp and been hit by flak?

I mean 1.32b was only released yesterday to address the RoF so how many times was that?

What squad what period etc?

Was there a battle on the go - yes AA is worse when guns are ammased at the front...

 

Finally why not play Pilot never dies until you can accept death in a war scenario?

 

 

WM

[Olham 164]

Vogel, see the thread "OFF Pilots Map" later today - I will add you in the map now.

Go to the first post of that thread and click on the America map - you will be in there

in half an hour from now. Have fun!

[saltysplash 0]

I think its a question of what do you want from OFF?

 

Do you want an Arcade style "shoot em up" game or an accuratly historic recreation flight simulator.

 

You can have both with the settings available in OFF.

 

BTW do some reading non fiction reading of the pilots and people from this era and you may, just may get some idea of how cheap life was in the 1914-18 Great War

Edited August 13, 2009 by saltysplash

[Vogel 0]

Lol yeah P4 and P5 and umm addons I am sure we will miss your purchases, but seriously what version are you running - have you even tried 1.32b released yesterday to reduce RoF?

 

I was running 1.32b all day yesterday, about 8 sorties. I installed 1.32c today and flew several more. I was hoping to fly even more this week while on vacation.

 

Snobbishly so? We have done nothing but add in easy settings and optional features to make OFF vastly more configurable than what it is out of the box.

Most of the patches to date have been all about accessibility.

 

I've enjoyed all of your patches (except the flak and artillery rate of fire in the last) and appreciate them very much.

 

How many times have you exited warp and been hit by flak?

I mean 1.32b was only released yesterday to address the RoF so how many times was that?

 

I was hit 4 out of 8 times within 30 seconds of exiting warp. Other times my wingmen were the victims.

 

What squad what period etc?

 

Jasta Boelcke JGIII 'Loerzer' 6 August 1918

 

Was there a battle on the go - yes AA is worse when guns are ammased at the front...

 

Yes, a fierce battle judging by the overwhelming flak and artillery from below.

[+Polovski 458]

So you enjoyed all the patches and 1 item annoys you, so you fly off the handle and won't buy any products - not the way to approach getting changes made.

Other people think it's fine so you see it depends on many variations of squad, time, location, battles, personal preferences... and we gave you options in Workshop - which you didn't try??

 

I think you missed the fact that WM said he will add in yet ANOTHER option for you to have the old useless Flak back in, but you missed that. So even though we get comments like this he is still doing things to help. Nuts.

 

Warp isn't magic.. you are basically flying straight and level for miles.. so whilst doing that the ground fire is tracking you and firing at you in compressed time - and you are making a lovely straight target.

 

In the meantime try another squad/time/date, warp in short bursts, use easier ground fire settings in workshops, and DODGE. Warp isn't great for helping the player stay alive.

 

Also we tested this again just now and it was fine, so obviously you found or or two dangerous places ;)

[Olham 164]

Fly zig zag criss cross - never straight for longer than half a minute.

Flak wants to kill you. And by 1918, they aren't beginners anymore.

[themightysrc 5]

" Fly zig zag criss cross - never straight for longer than half a minute.

Flak wants to kill you. And by 1918, they aren't beginners anymore."

 

very sound advice. And, is should be said, Aug 6th 1918 puts you right slap bang in the middle of the Battle of Amiens - not exactly the safest posting!

[Fliegenhund 0]

Why fly a sim like this if you want an "easy button"?

[buddye 1]

Everyone has a different concept and idea for what is fun. What is fun to one person is bad for another. I have seen this for years now.

 

The key is to offer the best options (options for everything is just not reasonable) so players can select what is fun for their personal taste.

 

I do not like DID and messing about with pilots , I do not like paper work (claims form), and I do not like flying for 20 minutes to get to the action but some people like all these things.

 

The developers have added options for both (so cool) and many more options as well.

 

Planning and designing options for different taste is the way to go , IMHO, for a full function combat flight sim. It is more work for the developer but more people can enjoy the sim and have fun.

Edited August 14, 2009 by buddye

[cptroyce 0]

To the primary point of choice..I have run/played many sims, PC games, etc., none that I can think of, gives anywhere near the degree of control and customization as the OFF Workshop. It is virtually your own private development editor; and it's easy to use!

 

To Vogel's point of deadly AA,...

 

>> Given this early history, it is perhaps not surprising that it was only in Germany that development of anti-aircraft guns continued. In 1909, a number of Krupp's designs were shown, including adaptations of their 65 mm 9-pounder, a 75 mm 12-pounder, and even a 105 mm gun. By the start of World War I, the 75 mm had become the standard German weapon, and came mounted on a large traverse that could be easily picked up on a wagon for movement.

 

Other countries seem to have largely ignored the possibility of aircraft being an important part of hostilities, but this soon changed when German spotter aircraft started calling down increasingly accurate artillery fire. All armies soon deployed a number of guns based on their smaller field pieces, notably the French 75 mm and Russian 76.2 mm, typically simply propped up on some sort of embankment to get the muzzle pointed skyward. The British Army decided on an entirely new weapon, and deployed a 3-inch (76 mm) gun that was perhaps the best of all the designs at that time. The German Army also adapted a revolving-cannon that came to be known to Allied fliers as the "flaming onion". This gun had five barrels that quickly launched a series of 37 mm artillery shells.[5]

 

In general, these ad-hoc solutions proved largely useless. With little experience in the role, and no ability to spot the "fall" of their rounds with any accuracy, gunners proved unable to get the altitude correct and most rounds fell well below their targets (discovering this, British fliers gave German AAA the mocking nickname, "Archie"). The exception to this rule were the guns protecting spotting balloons, in which case the altitude could be accurately measured from the length of the cable holding the balloon. The Krupp 75 mm guns were later supplied with an optical sighting system that improved their capabilities, but these sorts of systems were not deployed by other forces.

 

As aircraft started to be used in tactical roles against ground targets, these larger weapons proved too ponderous to aim at the quickly traversing targets. Soon the forces were adding various machine gun based weapons mounted on poles. The British introduced a heavier weapon — their 1-pounder "pom-pom" (a 37 mm version of the Maxim Gun) on an elevated mounting. These short-range weapons proved more deadly, and the Red Baron arguably fell victim to an anti-aircraft Vickers machine gun.

 

When the war ended, it was clear that the increasing capabilities of aircraft would require a more serious attempt at downing them. Nevertheless the pattern had been set: anti-aircraft weapons would be based around heavy weapons attacking high-altitude targets and lighter weapons for use when they came to lower altitudes.<<

 

Also...

 

>> An area defense was at the opposite end of the doctrinal spectrum from the WWI antiaircraft experience. In WWI, antiaircraft artillerymen admitted that their systems were inaccurate and short ranged, so they were compelled to position the guns and machine guns close to the defended target where attacking aircraft could be engaged in an incoming posture, the easiest AAA gunnery problem. This conservative tactic enhanced individual system accuracy and enabled multiple guns or machine guns to engage the same airplane. The objective was to produce a volume of fire that would drive the enemy aircraft away; killing the aircraft was a secondary consideration. Marginal capabilities dictated a doctrine of point defense. <<

 

I found the history interesting anyway...

 

 

Regards,

Royce

Edited August 14, 2009 by cptroyce

[corpse grinder 0]

Hi guys....

 

I know its been quite a long time since I posted here but just wanted to add my proverbial "two cents" I used make loads of missions for CFS3 and even some for OFF. In each of these missions I did not always try to bring historical accuracy but at least a very large level of realism i.e. the probobilty of dying during a mission very real and very likely. I did however design my missions that....if you fly with your head and not with the tunnel vision of striving for the kill or destruction a target.....you would survive. In this I mean....sure the target is there....but do I REALLY need to put myself in a siuation that I might not survive?

 

Now, I did not fight in WW1 or WW2....or any other war for that matter. But in cases of life and death a hasty, un-thought out desicion could be your last....even without being shot at. With that being said, would we all not avoid the archie to fight another day....or steam head long into the icy arms of death if it only means one more kill mark on the fuse? If and when I am simming and find myself embroiled in combat and things get too out of hand.....I head for home whenever possible. I dont know about you all....but I would not sit in a burning building....even it would give me bragging rights and help my ego along.

 

I hope my idiotic rambling makes sense.....but the moral of the story is.....choose your fights wisely or meet an early demise.

 

Justin

Edited August 14, 2009 by corpse grinder

[Fliegenhund 0]

Corpse grinder, I played another game at some point where you were on a forum. Possibly, Red Orchestra? This will drive me nuts :p

 

I played most shooters as Pugilist, or Totenkopf if it rings a bell.

Edited August 14, 2009 by Fliegenhund