Abhi 3 Posted October 20, 2009 The winner’s jackpot could soon become even bigger in what is already the world’s most lucrative fighter aircraft tender: India’s proposed purchase of 126 medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) for an estimated Rs 51,000 crore ($11 billion). The reason: a breakdown in India’s long-running negotiations with French aircraft manufacturer, Dassault Aviation, for upgrading 51 Indian Air Force Mirage-2000 fighters. According to senior IAF sources, Dassault has flatly refused to reduce its quote of Rs 10,000 crores (US $2.1 billion) for extending the service life of the IAF’s Mirage-2000 fleet by fitting new radars and avionics. The Ministry of Defence (MoD) considers this price --- Rs 196 crores (US $41 million) per aircraft --- unacceptably high, given that the airframes and engines will not be changed. In comparison, each of the 126 brand-new, next-generation MMRCAs will cost some Rs 400 crores (US $87 million) per aircraft. That includes the cost of technology transfers, as well as capital costs for setting up a manufacturing line in India. Once those costs are amortised, additional MMRCAs would be significantly cheaper. Dassault’s India head, Posina V Rao has not returned multiple phone calls from Business Standard. MoD sources say that Rao is engaged in last-ditch attempts to salvage the deal. But, the MoD is veering around to the viewpoint that the Mirage-2000 fleet should continue service in its current form. After six squadrons (126 aircraft) of MMRCAs have entered IAF service, an additional two squadrons of MMRCAs would be built to replace the 51 Mirage-2000 fighters. That amounts to a 40% rise in the MMRCA’s numbers. Israeli aerospace companies have reportedly entered the fray, offering to upgrade the Mirage-2000 for half the price being quoted by Dassault. The MoD, however, is not inclined to accept that offer. Price negotiations for the Mirage-2000 upgrade have travelled a rocky road over the last two years. Initially, Dassault quoted Rs 13,500 crores (US $2.9 billion), which it brought down to the current level of Rs 10,000 crores (US $2.1 billion) after the IAF diluted its upgrade requirements. But the MoD believes Dassault’s reduced bid only reflects the diluted requirements, rather than any flexibility on the part of Dassault. The IAF, traditionally a staunch supporter of Dassault and the Mirage-2000 fighter, is apparently changing its views. Dassault, say pilots, has badly damaged its credibility during the recent negotiations by arm-twisting the IAF over the supply of spares for the Mirage-2000 fleet. The Gwalior-based IAF squadrons that currently fly the Mirage-2000 are Number 1 squadron (Tigers) and Number 7 squadron (Battle Axes). Five of the six contenders for the MMRCA contract --- Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Eurofighter, Gripen and RAC MiG --- know they could reap handsome gains, through larger fighter orders, if India chooses not to upgrade the Mirage-2000. The sixth contender, Dassault Aviation, realises that failure to negotiate the Mirage-2000 upgrade contract could seriously damage the chances of its Rafale fighter in the MMRCA contract. The fighters in contention for the MMRCA contract are sequentially undergoing flight trials and evaluation, which the IAF expects to complete by April 2010. It will take another six months to finalise the trial report and submit that to India’s MoD. The MoD will then announce the winner of the contract. -as reported by ajay shuklas blog 'broadsword'. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Abhi 3 Posted October 20, 2009 what i am seeing is a act of stupidity,rafale is already short on some specs and now this? dassault is acting against its own. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+76.IAP-Blackbird 3,557 Posted October 20, 2009 Gripen NG is a nice choice it would save SAAB and would fit fine in the IAF as a modern Fighterbomber. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DarthRevan 3 Posted October 20, 2009 Gripen NG is a nice choice it would save SAAB and would fit fine in the IAF as a modern Fighterbomber. I totally agree and I don't say that just because I'm swedish I think Gripen could fit IAF good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Atreides 144 Posted October 20, 2009 Agree. The Gripen is/would be a great choice for the IAF but, since it uses U.S engines, I suspect the Indians are a bit cautious of possible U.S embargos on their tech be it license built if the Indians were to (very likely) go to war with Pakistan in response to an attack, depending on which country the administration of the day is in favour of ! Just my 0.02 cents. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Viggen 644 Posted October 20, 2009 Agree. The Gripen is/would be a great choice for the IAF but, since it uses U.S engines, I suspect the Indians are a bit cautious of possible U.S embargos on their tech be it license built if the Indians were to (very likely) go to war with Pakistan in response to an attack, depending on which country the administration of the day is in favour of ! Just my 0.02 cents. Wouldn't be the first time something like that happened. If memory serves, the IAF wanted the Viggen, but weren't able to get it becuase of the engine being of US origin. (albeit being a Volvo built, afterburning version) That's why they got the Jaguar. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Atreides 144 Posted October 20, 2009 Yep. Remember reading all about that, sad really, would've loved to see what the Viggen would've looked like in the IAF camo scheme. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JediMaster 451 Posted October 21, 2009 Boeing and LockMart are in the same group as Saab when it comes to having to deal with that issue. That gives the MiG a considerable boost in this competition, yet at the same time the pricing issues with the whole Gorshkov deal may well counter that. Only the Typhoon seems to have none of these political downsides, but I'm not sure it's proven multirole enough for their requirements plus it has yet to have an AESA enter production (another requirement) while most of the others have. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Abhi 3 Posted October 21, 2009 the chances of MIG WINNING is very less as IAF prefers western fighters(maintenance issue) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+ghostrider883 526 Posted October 21, 2009 If MiG had less chance, why would the Navy propose buying more MiG-29Ks? Why not buy rafales instead? Besides, the first MiG-29Bs are in Russia now for UPG. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Atreides 144 Posted October 21, 2009 the chances of MIG WINNING is very less as IAF prefers western fighters(maintenance issue) Which is shadowed by the very high cost of operating U.S aircraft(s) for example one only need to look at the very high cost of flight hour for the F-16,18 and the EF. The Gripen seems to have the lowest cost for a Western a/c per flight hour. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hokum 0 Posted October 21, 2009 Agreed, the Gripen is probably one of the most capable (and cheap) 4th (4.5?) generation fighters about. I like them so much i'd prefer that we had them over the Eurofighter or F-35... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Abhi 3 Posted October 22, 2009 (edited) yes,its the cheapest and meets all the IAF specs,second it can be integrated with any kind of weapons(i ve heard that after installing russian avionics it can also fire russian weapons) super cruise,low cost and ToT. only problem is its payload as compared to other counterparts. but in gripen ng these issues will be fixed. saab says if it wins the contract india can manufacture their own versions. IAF in near future is not going to prefer russian fighters except sukhois.and gripen is the best choice. range is not a issue as the targets are not very far away.(Pakistan- China) if there will be no pressure from US (which is not going to happen,they banned Israel from exporting avionics to gripen in the mmrca) then gripen is the clear winner. Edited October 22, 2009 by satish Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Abhi 3 Posted October 22, 2009 f MiG had less chance, why would the Navy propose buying more MiG-29Ks? Why not buy rafales instead?Besides, the first MiG-29Bs are in Russia now for UPG./quote] bcoz thats navy not IAF.didnt you noticed that recent deals are won by airbus,lockheed or other companies. IAF strongly dislikes russian monopoly and their mid term price negotiations and delays.after sales support is very bad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rotarycrazy 4 Posted October 22, 2009 And the fact the the mig-29k are going to fly out of a russian aircraft carrier Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
