FE2 career

[Stiffy 1]

Has anyone tried a career in fe2s? Im not having much luck getting a fight...

 

In FE"s as fighter pilot (well actually playing as gunner)... but whenever we encounter the enemy close up (close enough to hear their engines) The enemy just flys by ignoring us... and my wingmen just fly by ignoring them.

 

Anyone else noticed this?

[Slartibartfast 153]

You mean you get to hear the enemy... me I am stooging around in a Bristol Scout looking for a fight and cannot find one and even then I have to get intelligent with the gun...

[Siggi 10]

The Halbs make one pass on our Strutters, then clear off. Just finished my last mission (138 minutes!) and a lone Halb climbed up to our altitude but declined to engage and just shadowed us for a while. Which is pretty damn realistic, considering there were five of us.

[Stiffy 1]

Lol yeah the AI does keep throwing surprises in to keep you amazed! I guessed that the Eindekkers may be avoiding the FE's deliberately. What is confusing is the FE's not giving chase, especially as I am flying offensive patrols to engage enemy aircraft! Do different AIs respond to enemies at different ranges? usually seems to be the same time the engine noises appear (and if you have ever used radar the same time they go red) that your wingmen all peel off for attack... but no reaction from my FE's

 

Is it possibly the AI is acting as if they are bombers and just plodding along even though they are supposed to be opperating as fighters? Ive notice BE2s just plod along without turning to fight (which is odd in itself as they have fixed front guns and should try to dogfight!).

 

I suspect that it is....

 

A. a limitation of CFS...

 

or

 

B. Already being worked on by Devs

 

Usually when I mention something they are already on top of it!

 

 

EDIT - In contrast Ive noticed German 2 seaters spin around dog fighting like madmen! So only seems to be british 2 seaters?

Edited November 10, 2009 by Stiffy

[Slartibartfast 153]

Not sure but my first flight last night against a threesome of Eindeckers I dove on them out of the sun and all that was getting to the point of opening fire and they scattered all over the place... and then fought like fighters... well until I planted my tail in the dirt... but hey thats my impression at present as I am only on my second day...

[Duce Lewis 3]

The man you want to speak to is Bullethead

He's flown several Fee carreers

 

Is it possibly the AI is acting as if they are bombers and just plodding along even though they are supposed to be opperating as fighters? Ive notice BE2s just plod along without turning to fight (which is odd in itself as they have fixed front guns and should try to dogfight!).

As best I remember, this is correct

You need to join a fighter squadron not bomber

There was some mention of changing some file file text to fighterbomber to get better dual role actions

 

Yesterday, Bullet said he'd wouldn't be around til late tonight

But I'm sure he'll give you the nuts and bolts when he's back

[Bullethead 12]

The man you want to speak to is Bullethead

He's flown several Fee carreers

 

More than several. I've done most of the alphabet of 1st names in them. The Fee is my favorite WW1 plane and OFF has made my dream come true in finally being able to fly it. I've attached some motivational pics of what you can do with it, plus a shot of an appropriately attitudinal skin for the Fee fighter pilot.

 

As others have said, the Fee appears in both bomber and fighter squadrons. Be SURE to fly it only in fighter squadrons if you want to get into fights. Fighter Fees do fighter missions, and if you fly in Bloody April (which is the only timeframe I recommend), you do things like OPs over Douai looking for MvR and his posse. The "F" in FE is for fighter (rumors that it means "Farman" are pure calumny ).

 

That said, the Fee suffers from being stuck with a bomber AI, even in fighter squadrons. That means that it's programmed to run straight away from the enemy, as if thinking it has an effective rear gun, unless you convince them otherwise. This ain't realistic because real Fee drivers knew better. But if you're hard-core, you'll learn to live with this and be successful even in Bloody April. I must admist, howver, that a month or so ago I FINALLY had the nerve to change my squadron's Fees to having a fighter AI, and things have gotten a lot easier.

 

The way to change the AI is to go into the \aircraft\FE2b_Sqd folder (no number after Sqd) and edit the FE2b_Sqd.xdp file (using any text editor). The 3rd line from the top starts with "<General Allegience..." Go to near the end of that long line and you'll see "Category=tactical_bomber". Change this to "Category=fighter_bomber" and you'll have much better help from your wingmen.

 

As for your own plane, the Fee is quite maneuverable athough very slow and with a poor climb. Thus, the vast majority of your Bloody April fights will being with superior numbers of ace-flown Albatri swooping you from high above. All you have to do is dodge their 1st few high-speed passes, however, and you can wipe the floor with any who get greedy and blow their E to try to turn with you. The Fee can out-turn the Albatros no problem. Of course, even a slow Albatros will be doing some vertical that you can't possibly match, so just fly horizontally inside his oblique turn and let your observer aim up at him. IOW, fly the Fee as if you were aiming the nose gun, but because you can't do much in the vertical, you have to rely on its off-boresight capability. But considering the Fee's general lack of performance, this is just an equalizer, not an overwhelming advantage. Remember, you 1st have to live long enough to be able to counterattack like this.

 

The rear gun in the Fee is your rear-view mirror. Don't rely on it to save you because it won't. However, it makes a good pointer towards enemies in your upper rear hemisphere, which are hard to see otherwise. So zoom your VC view out as far as possible because you don't have to aim any guns yourself, and being zoomed out lets you see better which way the rear gun is pointing.

 

So that's you. As for your AI buddies, unless you tweak the AI, they're practically useless. Unmodified, if you give them an attack order, they will just run away and usually die because they can't outrun Albatri nor defend themselves effectively from behind. Modified, they're not aggressive, but at least don't sit there and take it quite as much as othewise. Either way, what you want them to do is a Lufbery Circle, so they can defend each other's tails. Unmodified, you need to keep hammering the R key, to try to keep them following you, but this pretty much requires that you fly in a circle yourself, at least until the Albatri blow their E. Modified, just hit the H key once in a while, which will cause them to circle around you and thus keep you segregated from the other enemies while you outmaneuver the 1 you've picked.

 

Regardless, flying the Fee as a fighter and actively seeking trouble with vastly superior forces as a fighter pilot should, you're not going to have an easy time. More or less serious damage is just par for the course and making it back to your home drome is a rarity, usually depending on a complete lack of enemy activity. The vast majority of my non-fatal Fee sorties end up landing at whatever airfield happens to be right under me when my engine gets hit; otherwise it's whatever reasonably clear and flat piece of ground is handy. Success in a Fee squadron is measured in living through April and May 1917 without being hospitpalized for more than 1/2 that time, and if your squadron as a whole has more kills than deaths.

[JimAttrill 24]

So, thinks I, lets have a go at this FE2b. I sign on a new Fred Bloggs (all my pilots are called that), and take the mission in Campaign and get to the airfield. But I have no ammo, even though the previous screen said 100%. Even I am not silly enough to try a campaign sortie with two machine guns that can't do anything.

 

So I sign on another pilot, make him active etc and try again. Again no ammo. Does anyone have any idea why this happens?

 

Add another Fred Blogs, this time in 48sqn F2 Brisfits. He gets lots of ammo, the normal 500 rounds.

 

Even a BE2c gets ammo, but not the FE2b.

[Stiffy 1]

Odd.... you know that you have to switch to gunner to use any guns on FE right? Pilot doesnt have any guns

[JimAttrill 24]

It's all a bit unclear.... So you fly along until the enemy comes along and then switch to gunner. Who flies the aeroplane? I don't even know how to switch to gunner but I guess it's in the help. <br><br>But that would be a good reason for not having any ammo if I am the pilot.<br><br>Bullethead, I see that in the true Semper Fi tradition you like to do things the difficult way <img class="bbc_emoticon" alt="" src="http://forum.combatace.com/public/style_emoticons/default/Salute.gif">  But I think I will follow you in seeing what I can do in a Fee.   After all, after 100hrs in Be2cs anything is possible.  (Actually it was a glitch in the software I didn't know about that kept me alive).  <br><br>If you haven't already, you MUST MUST read 'War Story' by Derek Robinson.  IMHO it's his best book, and it is about a very young and brainwashed schoolboy sent to war as a pilot in a Be2 and who becomes an observer in a FE2b.  For students of literature I can honestly say that this book meets one of the main criteria for a good novel, in that the characters at the end are not the same as they are at the beginning (with a vengeance in this case).  If you haven't read it you will love it, and if you have read it, read it again!  It is a sad and funny book, impossible to put down and has the ending it should have.<br><br>ps I like your 'graffiti' on the Feee, but I don't think the powers-that-be would have approved <img class="bbc_emoticon" alt="" src="http://forum.combatace.com/public/style_emoticons/default/grin.gif"><br>

Edited November 11, 2009 by JimAttrill

[Stiffy 1]

More than several. I've done most of the alphabet of 1st names in them. The Fee is my favorite WW1 plane and OFF has made my dream come true in finally being able to fly it. I've attached some motivational pics of what you can do with it, plus a shot of an appropriately attitudinal skin for the Fee fighter pilot.

 

 

I know what you mean! Something fantastic about the early pushers... still would like to see a Gunbus added.

 

I'll try changing the AI behaviour as you suggest as 2 seaters really dont act like they should in OFF (limitation of CFS3 I guess!)

 

I will probably try out changing BE2 as well as they should definitely not fly in a straight line... I'm guessing it is the only way to make the AI drop bombs though... and even thats not right as they high level carpet bomb like ww2 bombers, they would swoop low over target before they drop them in real life. Withough a modern bombsight wouldnt hit anything otherwise!

[Stiffy 1]

P.s

 

Love the cigarette packit in the cockpit... and the photo... is it a picture of Mata Hari? Got an article in War Illustrated about her execution. These days though she's fairly widely considered to have been executed wrongly, betrayed by a counter agent.

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Well, i think you are brave to fly that crate!

[Guest British_eh]

Hi there BH - I went to the file but all I found was this?

 

Am I in the wrong spot?

 

Cheers,

 

British_eh

 

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Am I in the wrong spot?

 

Nope. Just open the Fe2B_sqd.xdp file in a text editor. About 4 or 5 lines from the top look for "Category="tactical_bomber" and switch to "fighter_bomber," and you will be good to go.

 

BTW, I taught BH this little trick, but whose counting?

[77Scout 3]

A few questions..

 

Will editting the Fe2B_sqd.xdp change all FE2B in the game to fighter-bombers, or just my squadron? I would actually like to put some 'fight' into all the FE2B's throughout the game. They are just to docile and easy to shoot down. How would I do that?

 

Also, is there a reason to use the fighter-bomber designation rather than aassigning a pure fighter AI for a pure fighter squadron?

[77Scout 3]

It's all a bit unclear.... So you fly along until the enemy comes along and then switch to gunner. Who flies the aeroplane?

 

There is a gunner sitting ahead of you and he has two guns (forward and back) and he will do all the firing. You are the pilot so you just fly the plane. You have no gun.

 

If you are role-playing being the pilot you won't switch positions, but if you do chose to switch roles the keys to do so are as Uncleal noted above, and when you are sitting in the gunner seat there is a computer pilot flying the plane.

[Bullethead 12]

So, thinks I, lets have a go at this FE2b. I sign on a new Fred Bloggs (all my pilots are called that), and take the mission in Campaign and get to the airfield. But I have no ammo, even though the previous screen said 100%. Even I am not silly enough to try a campaign sortie with two machine guns that can't do anything.

 

The Fee pilot doesn't have a gun of his own to shoot with, so no ammo shows up in that position. However, both gunner positions do have ammo, never fear.

 

I STRONGLY recommend that you NEVER fight from a gunner seat in the Fee. Just fly the plane and leave the shooting to your gunner(s). You need to be doing ACM if you don't want the Albatri to shoot you to pieces. If you're in a gunner's seat, the plane will just fly in a straight line, which makes it an easy target. All the gunners' kills go on your account, without you firing a shot. The only reason ever to get into the guner's seat is to check the ammo remaining during a lull in the action.

 

Fly the Fee like a fighter. Your objective is to set up shots for your front gun, so chase the enemy around trying to get on his tail. Because the front gun pivots, you don't have to get lined up perfectly, and in fact it's better if you're NOT directly behind the target. I get most of my kills by formating on my target on a parallel course just off his 4 or 8 o'clock. This angle gives my bullets a better chance of hitting the vitals at the front of the target than shooting from behind him. Besides, it's cool to watch because you have a perfect view of the target (not blocked by any part of your plane) and the gunner firing at him, too.

 

Suppose you're after an Albatros that's going rather faster than you. Odds are, he'll be doing high oblique turns, and the Fee lacks the macho to follow him up. No problem, just turn flat inside him (easy for a Fee) and match his bank as if you're in formation with him. Then your gunner can shoot him all through the turn.

 

A few notes on Fee gunners.... I have found that they start to aim at enemies about 300m away but will only fire at 200m or less range (per labels). They will also only shoot if you're in a relatively low-G turn banked not more than about 30^. They can snap the gun instantly from side to side (whereas you have to crank it over slowly) and can follow rapid crossing targets, but can't hit anything except relatively stationary targets. This is why you need to formate on your target, so you can hold him in the same small part of the screen. That way, the gunner can pour rounds into him and he'll go down. But as said above, you can't be turning very hard while doing this. Also note that the gunner usually has to aim at the target for a full second or so before he starts shooting (even if all the other conditions are met), so you can't really do snapshots.

 

The front gun is your only real weapon. It has a field of fire about 160^ wide across the nose, and from about 30^ down to about 45^ up, but only gets many hits on targets that are within about a 40^ cone centered on your nose. Shooting at higher angles to the sides just wastes bullets, even against relatively stationary targets.

 

The rear gun's field of fire is about 90^ wide and from essentially level to about 35^ up. Your rear gun should never fire a shot, other than the odd short burst at some non-threat crossing behind you but not staying back there. It's unlikely that the rear gun will ever fire a long burst, because a Hun on your tail will usually shoot from 300-400m and blow you to bits before the rear gun opens fire at 200m. The rear gun is only useful as a sort of status indicator of your 6. If the gun is in its centered rest position, then your 6 is PROBABLY clear, at least if you're turning (which forces any enemy following you to be on your high 6 and hopefully in the gun's field of fire). However, as aces typically fire from 400m or so and the gun won't point at them until about 300m, it could also mean you're about to die. Just hope your SA is good enough to remember where all the badguys are. If the rear gun is swinging rapidly from side to side, perhaps firing a short burst now and then, that means your 6 is PROBABLY clear (as in nobody's in position to shoot at you) but enemies are criss-crossing the sky behind you. This being fairly normal in a large furball, consider this a good sign. If your rear gun ever points in a single direction and stays there, forget what you're doing and BREAK HARD NOW!! It only does this when it's aiming at a relatively stationary target fairly close back there, which means you're in some Hun's sights.

 

NOTE: I find it best to fly the Fee with my view zoomed all the way out/back. This makes it easier for me to see targets ahead and also keep 1 eye on what the rear gun is doing.

 

Will editting the Fe2B_sqd.xdp change all FE2B in the game to fighter-bombers, or just my squadron? I would actually like to put some 'fight' into all the FE2B's throughout the game. They are just to docile and easy to shoot down. How would I do that?

 

The file I indicated only affects your squadron's Fees, and only for a pilot in that squadron, whichever squadron it is. IOW, suppose you have 2 Fee pilots in different squadrons, say 20 and 22. When you fly the guy in 20, his Fees will fly better but no others will, including those in 22. And vice versa when you fly the guy in 22.

 

I have no idea what tampering with the other files will do. I hesitate to try, actually .

 

Also, is there a reason to use the fighter-bomber designation rather than aassigning a pure fighter AI for a pure fighter squadron?

 

I don't know if there is such a thing. However, what you don't want to end up with is Fees doing a lot of loops, or rather trying to and failing, and thus stalling constantly. Also, bear in mind that the Fee couldn't hold more than 20^ nose-up attitude for any length of time, due to this making all the oil run to the back of the motor and stay there. You CAN loop a Fee if you have a lot of speed to start with, and the Gs of this will keep the oil from pooling, but you don't want to do long, steep climbs. Doing so doesn't seem to have any adverse effects in the game, but you shouldn't have Fees doing this if you want to be realistic.

 

The main Fee tactic seems to have been the Lufbery Circle. As long as I can get my guys to approximate that, I'm happy.

[77Scout 3]

I had a check of the aircraft files, and there is no such designation as 'fighter'; all the fighters are all actually tagged as 'fighter_bomber' so that answers my own question.

 

Three planes are designated as 'tactical_bomber'...the FE2B, Sopwith Strutter, and Hannover. Three planes are designated as 'level_bomber'...the RE8, DFW, and BE2c. I wonder what the behaviour difference between a tactical bomber and a level bomber would be?

[Stiffy 1]

Hmm that explains why the BEs are messed up in OFF... they are set to level bomber... not suitable tactic for a plane with a fixed front firing gun. They were designed to dogfight.

 

Might i sugest it should be altered in a future patch?

[Bullethead 12]

Three planes are designated as 'tactical_bomber'...the FE2B, Sopwith Strutter, and Hannover. Three planes are designated as 'level_bomber'...the RE8, DFW, and BE2c. I wonder what the behaviour difference between a tactical bomber and a level bomber would be?

 

The strange thing is, only the DFW has a bombsight, so only it can do level bombing.

 

In the DFW, if you're in the F7 bombsight view and drop your bombs, your wingmen will drop theirs, too, without having to order them to attack. That's perhaps the difference between level and tactical bombers.

Edited November 12, 2009 by Bullethead

[JimAttrill 24]

BulletHead "NOTE: I find it best to fly the Fee with my view zoomed all the way out/back. This makes it easier for me to see targets ahead and also keep 1 eye on what the rear gun is doing."

 

So you don't fly from the cockpit - do you use chase view?

 

I am having fun with the Fee - the gunners are quite good, better than I am I reckon. Unfortunately my pilots never get back to base so I haven't tried a landing yet. Mostly I am not shot down but lose control - the Fee does not seem to come out of an inverted spin easily Either that or the wings get so much damage they fall off.

 

I am flying with 'the old enemy' 20 squadron. They were the second RAF Germany Harrier squadron and were second in everything. We even stole one of their aircraft one night without them noticing.....

 

But unfortunately 'fantastic fearless fighting Four' had a pretty boring time in WWI, only flying Be2s and Re8s.

Edited November 12, 2009 by JimAttrill

[Stiffy 1]

Hey!... that Fe has a fixed forward firing gun!... can we getone of those?

[JimAttrill 24]

Hey!... that Fe has a fixed forward firing gun!... can we getone of those?

 

That's what I thought and then wondered why I had no ammo for it. I put the picture in because it shows how brave these gunners must have been to sit out of the cockpit on one gun and fire another. And to have another fixed gun aimed at your kneecaps at the same time

 

One spec I read said that the FE2b could have up to FOUR guns fitted.

 

Maybe we could get a mod to the Fee to add in the fixed forward gun. I don't think the devs really expect there to be much demand for Fee stuff. Maybe we should start a 'Fighting Fee' thread rather like the Did thread. But first I need a lot more practice.

Edited November 12, 2009 by JimAttrill

[77Scout 3]

BulletHead "NOTE: I find it best to fly the Fee with my view zoomed all the way out/back. This makes it easier for me to see targets ahead and also keep 1 eye on what the rear gun is doing."

 

So you don't fly from the cockpit - do you use chase view?

 

I am sure Bullethead will be flying from the cockpit (nobody who is serious about simulation would use chase view), but is simply zooming the view all the way 'out'. Zoom is done with the '[' and ']' keys.