9/11 Trial

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Hmm...Not sure what to make of this?

 

They want to bring those (thought to be) responsible to a civil trial in New York?

 

Why?

 

And if found guilty, the death penalty?..Hmm.... Well, that's a sure fire way of turning a bunch of Murdering nobodies into Martyr's if ever I heard...why do the Prosecutors want to give them an easy ride?

 

Don't they realise, thats exactly what these freaks want?...They want to Die!..their whole Ethos is looking forward to it!!

 

Hmm...Not sure what to make of this?

 

They want to bring those (thought to be) responsible to a civil trial in New York?

 

Why?

 

And if found guilty, the death penalty?..Hmm.... Well, that's a sure fire way of turning a bunch of Murdering nobodies into Martyr's if ever I heard...why do the Prosecutors want to give them an easy ride?

 

Don't they realise, thats exactly what these freaks want?...They want to Die!..their whole Ethos is looking forward to it!!..and now they will get their final wish!...Nice one eh?

 

Hmm...Not sure what to make of this?

 

They want to bring those (thought to be) responsible to a civil trial in New York?

 

Why?

 

And if found guilty, the death penalty?..Hmm.... Well, that's a sure fire way of turning a bunch of Murdering nobodies into Martyr's if ever I heard...why do the Prosecutors want to give them an easy ride?

 

Don't they realise, thats exactly what these freaks want?...They want to Die!..their whole Ethos is looking forward to it!!..and now they will get their final wish!...Nice one eh?

 

And I REALLY didn't want to repeat it three times!!!

 

Sorry chaps!!

 

OOPS!...I must be more tanked up than I thought (hic)

[eraser_tr 29]

If found guilty? as if there's a question to the outcome of that trial? Especially if held in NY, the whole jury pool will have some connection, either friends or family to FDNY, NYPD or people who worked in the towers.

[+Typhoid 231]

this will be a circus, not justice.

[+SkippyBing 8]

I may be wrong, God knows I normally am, but surely it's going to take the rest of their natural lives just to find an unbiased jury. Otherwise the defence attorney isn't doing his job and they can call for a mistrial or something?!

Maybe they ought to be thinking along the lines of the Lockerbie trial that took place in a third party country? Although probably not release them if they start feeling a bit poorly....

[OvS 8]

I'm from Long Island, NY.... what I think about this and our "president" supporting the decision I can't post on this forum.

 

But I think you can imagine it considering I lost 3 friends on that day....

 

OvS

[Ruggbutt 45]

 

 

But I think you can imagine it considering I lost 3 friends on that day....

 

I can't imagine that. I lost a lot of fellow Americans I didn't know. I'm still pissed off about 9/11 and as time goes on I doubt if I'll ever stop being mad about it.

[eraser_tr 29]

Ramsi Youssef was tried in NY for the 93 bombing, so why not KSM? He should actually be facing charges for 93 as well.

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

I guess we were 'lucky' with the London Bombings...in that they blew themselves to Kingdom come..so no need for a trial.

 

The fact is, we Brits were fighting a 'War on Terror' with the IRA for 30 yrs prior to 9/11 (The Irish Terrorists were supported I am sorry to say, by certain Irish / American's... shame on them, and their families for an eternity!!...as I consider them murderers by association, and would gladly see them hanged publically)...and we ended up letting them out of Prison as part of the good friday agreement!

Though it has, for the most part stopped the IRA from using their Terrorism...and they now have joined the political path.

 

Sorry to say, but it matters not how many F-16's or Soldiers we send to Afghanistan...we won't win a war on terror with an Army...the best we can hope for (IMHO) is to keep Al Queda tied up.

 

Sometime, somewhere, somehow... we will have to negotiate with them (or tie ourselves in with someone who will)

Edited November 17, 2009 by UK_Widowmaker

[eraser_tr 29]

Sorry to say, but it matters not how many F-16's or Soldiers we send to Afghanistan...we won't win a war on terror with an Army...the best we can hope for (IMHO) is to keep Al Queda tied up.

 

Sometime, somewhere, somehow... we will have to negotiate with them (or tie ourselves in with someone who will)

 

Correct, though we don't need to negotiate with them or have anything to do with anyone who will, as long as we don't start again with all the crusade rhetoric again, their pool of possible recruits will continue to dry up and they'll just die out.

[+Dave 2,322]

I dont give a damn where they are tried, as long as they are founds guilty and shot afterwards.

[fallenphoenix1986 603]

"Correct, though we don't need to negotiate with them or have anything to do with anyone who will, as long as we don't start again with all the crusade rhetoric again, their pool of possible recruits will continue to dry up and they'll just die out."

 

 

Sadly it rarely works out like that... there will always be someone queing up just a matter of how many and how frequently. As long as theres someone in a position of authority and people gulible/stupid/psycotic enough to agree/be brainwashed there will always be someone willing to screw with us. Maybey down the road it wont be Al Queda but at the end of the day it dosnt matter what the loons want to call themselves, there will be someone ready to kill the inocent in the name of their God/Ideology.

 

Craig

Edited November 17, 2009 by fallenphoenix1986

[eraser_tr 29]

That's exactly why we can't freak over it all. It's nothing new to the world and it won't go away.

 

Every society has its own version of savages, created by the same situations, poverty, no education and no hope for better. The Middle East has the archtypical terrorists, Africa has a thousand different rebel militias who'll rape and machette as they please. Latin America has drug cartels and their fair share of rebels. We have gangs in the cities and Klan in the country. England/Ireland had the IRA to contend with. Russia has Chechnyan rebels.

[OvS 8]

That's exactly why we can't freak over it all. It's nothing new to the world and it won't go away.

 

Every society has its own version of savages, created by the same situations, poverty, no education and no hope for better. The Middle East has the archtypical terrorists, Africa has a thousand different rebel militias who'll rape and machette as they please. Latin America has drug cartels and their fair share of rebels. We have gangs in the cities and Klan in the country. England/Ireland had the IRA to contend with. Russia has Chechnyan rebels.

 

Well... I don't agree with anything you just said... these people on not normal, contribute nothing to the success of modern civilization, if they had it there way, you'd be either dead or praying to Allah, and you're daughters (if you have any, I do) would be sold as sex slaves and Islamic Jihadist production factories.

 

To compare them to Drug Cartels is ridiculous, as Cartels do not go around blowing up the citizens. If they did, who would they sell the drugs to. They fight with the Police and Military and other Cartels as well.

 

To compare them to the Klan is silly. The Klan are nothing more than a bunch of screwed-up Southern extreme racists who beat-up anyone that is of another color. They don't blow-up schools, kill children, etc. At this point, they're about as threatening to the average citizen as a biker gang. I don't recall the last time I read a story about a Klan member strapping a bomb to his a$$ and running into a Sunday market killing himself and 30 others in the name of Jesus Christ.

 

To Compare them to the IRA and England/Southern Ireland is not understanding why they do what they do. The feel oppressed from the pressures of religion and ideology coming from the rest of the UK, and now and then go on a mortar spree at LHR. LHR is tremendous and really, hitting the terminal with old WWII type short-range mortars is a long-shot by any means. Scary yes, but they are only trying to place fear as a terrorist does, the IRA is not a killing machine that mindlessly slaughters the Southern Irish women and children, or flies planes in to civilian occupied buildings in London to prove it's point. Plus... they're always willing to negotiate now and then to cool things off. Islamic Jihadists wouldn't know what that meant as they are brainwashed from birth.

 

The Bloods and Crips in the USA (really the prime gangs, the rest are predominately off-shoots of them like MS13) have gotten stronger mostly from their ability to infiltrate the US Military and receive training with weapons, explosives and tactics, but for the most part, are still gangs made up primarily of illegal immigrants, young men and ex-cons. They fight over territory and access to drugs. The FBI and US Military would steam-roller them if it came down to it and they know it. Many members decide the life is really not for them and try like hell to get out of it... unlike an Islamic Extremist. When was the last time you saw someone from the Carbone family blow-up a school bus full of innocent children to make a statement that children should stay home and read the Bible?

 

Lastly... Africa... it's a jungle... what did you expect. Those poor people have been oppressed by tyrant Dictators and Extremists for hundreds of years. It dates back to tribal rules, which we moved out of thousands of years ago. The only thing you can say about that situation is it will never change. How can it, they know nothing else because they're not allowed to. We keep this insane idea that we can change them over-night... we can't.

 

Getting back to the real point... these useless pieces of $hit do not deserve the same rights as any of the citizens that they slammed those planes into the morning of 9/11. It was premeditated, and an act which we, and the rest of the free-loving world went to war over. This was an act of war. They declared war on us, and shortly after this act, the world that supported our cause declared war on them. They should be tried in a military court, found guilty, and promptly shot via Firing Squad.

 

Once again, we show the world we are compassionate, and understanding... meanwhile, these men are going to make a mockery out of us.

 

On a side note... any lawyer sick and sleezy enough to even attempt to defend this scum in a public court should be standing next to them, tied to the post when the guns go off.

 

Thanks for showing respect and discussing this topic. Come to NYC and stand at ground zero... maybe you'll hear one of my friends crying in the wind.

 

OvS

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

Surely OvS.. America is built on a system of freedom and Justice for all? (yes, even the sort of detritus that was responsible for 9/11)

 

Much as I would hate to be the unfortunate Lawyer who has to defend them, I think execution of the poor chap is a bit off the mark!

They must be defended in court, or we are all as bad as them!..a lawless bunch of Killers!...worse still..State owned Killers.

 

I too and Fro regarding the Death Penalty...yes, I was not there on September 11th, and appreciate I may have felt a lot different...but I was here on 7/7 when they attacked London..and of course, had they survived I would probably have wanted them executed... as Indeed at the height of the Troubles in NI, I rejoiced at every IRA Members Death!

 

But these are not ordinary Criminals...these people go way beyond that!...As I said originally, they pray for Death...by killing them (Humanely of course no doubt, with a lethal Injection)...as opposed to skinning alive, (which is what many would, understandably wish)... You create Martyr's....dead recruitment officials for the cause of Al Queda!...for the short lived gratification of Killing them, you create an effigy of heroic Martyredom which will live for decades!

 

Jesus was your typical 'Terrorist' to the Roman World.

Of course he did'nt act like a terrorist (in fact, I am fairly confident in saying, he was an all round 'Good Egg')

 

But, if those Nasty Romans hadn't nailed him to a tree...would we all have been so influenced by the Concept of Christianity?...I think perhaps not....he was a True Martyr in every sense of the word.

 

These Murdering Animals (hate to use the word Animals..because not an Animal on the Planet would act in such a Heinous way...that is the priveledge bestowed on us as Humans)...deserve to die.

 

But... Are we sentencing to death..Innocent people in the future, who are to become victims of another young Islamic Man /Woman with a bomb, who are to be influenced by a dead martyr?

 

Thats my fear.

[OvS 8]

ahhh... what the hell.... it's a good subject. I need to learn not to be so emotional over it now... but I can't.

 

As a NY Taxpayer... and a worker in the 5 boroughs, I am sick to my stomach that this is how my honest tax paid money will be spent. The amount of O/T the Port, NYPD and NYFD will have to work to stand as witnesses, give testimony, cover security, run patrols, check ID's... etc..etc.. etc.. in order to protect the livelihood of the NYC citizen... and these rats .... is a total waste of money better spent on economic development.

 

NY will be in the eye-of the world once again, and this time, the stakes are very high. Unless the prosecution has well-thought and documented argument that all admissions and or evidence collected during water-boarding, and or other CIA interrogation techniques is not illegal evidence most of their testimonies will be tossed out as inadmissible evidence... this putting the CIA on the chopping block for using illegal interrogation tactics.

 

If seeking the death penalty is the best we can do in a civil court, then we are only assisting their cause. The other option is Life in Prison (which in a maximum security prison can be good or bad, depends on how the other inmates see things)... but then the USA forks the bill for the cost of keeping them alive, 3 meals a day, gym, library, cable, doctor visits, religion practices.... etc, baically living better than they ever would have in a cave in Afghanistan or a hole in the ground in Pakistan.

 

Again... see where I am going. We're a civil society dealing with barbarians born from the defecation of pigs.... what do you think is the best choice?

 

OvS

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

OvS...I can't even begin to tell you how much I share your feelings!

 

I personally cannot understand why Guantanemo (excuse my spelling) is closing down.

I can think of no better place to keep these vile creatures...and as for Torture...well, it's not as though they don't deserve it!

 

Death (IMHO) really IS too good for them!

[+Dave 2,322]

Drug cartels have blown up innocent people. It is well documneted. The IRA bombed innocent people as well. Both sides in that conflict were doing that, because of religion and other things (dont want to get too deep here). So they are terrorists just has much as the Jihadists are. Killing innocent people for money, drugs, religion etc puts them all in the same boat, terrorists. Period. I dont care what country they came from, they are all the same and need to be exterminated like the vermin they are.

[OvS 8]

Yes, Simon... I know.. I'm a little extreme on the lawyer thing... but think about it.... what the hell kind of defense (excuse) can a lawyer possibly conjure up out of a cesspool to defend these pigs?? They were brainwashed? You agree, as a human being, our basic desire is self-preservation and pro-creation. How the hell can anyone possibly be convinced to do otherwise and kill themselves is something we would never know. It's a whole different ball-game over there. In cases like this, that are extreme, why does the law allow a defendant the power of attorney to stand trial? For a heinous crime like this, that privilege should be removed as a clause and they stand trial as their own defendant/attorney. Why should the law be allowed to offer a loop-hole, or a chance for the case to be acquitted when it's obvious to the entire world, by their own admission that they helped plan and execute this act of war.

 

Much like the Spartans of ancient Greece, these men are taught from birth through religion (the most powerful tool to use for good or bad) that they will be preserved in eternity and their families forever taken care of by Allah for doing what they do. You and I simply cannot compare that to anything we have known to be civilized/normal, average human behavior in a democratically governed society... or even in a communist, fascists, socialist... whatever... it's just not a part of life for us. No law can change them, no punishment, no incarceration. They keep coming and will forever until their goal of 100% Islamic rule and law is in place. Unlike WWII where Hitler had is insane dream, these people have taken that to an all new level. It's like you are dealing with 10 million Hitlers... each one capable of being his own Hitler and influencing each other. Mostly all TRAINED in military style tactics and use of weapons good enough to take down lesser militaries and smaller societies.

 

I mean... what do you do with this??? You sentence them to death, you create more of them for sure... you leave them in prison, you pay out the ying-yang for them forever like a really bad STD.

 

This is not going to end anytime soon.

 

OvS

[OvS 8]

Drug cartels have blown up innocent people. It is well documneted. The IRA bombed innocent people as well. Both sides in that conflict were doing that, because of religion and other things (dont want to get too deep here). So they are terrorists just has much as the Jihadists are. Killing innocent people for money, drugs, religion etc puts them all in the same boat, terrorists. Period. I dont care what country they came from, they are all the same and need to be exterminated like the vermin they are.

 

This is different though Dave. I understand what you mean, but realistically, you don't have to fear the IRA getting into Nuclear Weapons. God help us if these guys do. They are internationally funded. Just recently, this past week, the FBI took down a bunch of banks, and a High-Rise in NYC finding that the money they have been withholding moves through other networks to feed back to Iran. I don't know the exact details, it's worth a read, but the point is that this is all around us now, not just in the USA, but the world.

 

The Cartels and IRA have their beef, no doubt. They do their thing, like any other gang, but they are not on a scale of global terrorism, or annihilation like these guys are. They use scientists from our own universities, they call upon Military personnel that wear the flag of the country they live in... they could be your neighbor, having a beer one day, then standing in the middle of your street sweating, with the vest on. It's nuts.

 

It's only a matter of time one of these SOB lights off a dirty bomb in Central Park, or in DC.

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

It's a tough one!...Yep...It sure is!

 

I guess, we as democracies are facing this inherent threat from Mad Jihadists in the best way we can.

 

But, It's very easy to fall into the trap of feeling that these nut-jobs are everywhere, in our Streets, Communities...all over the Islamic World..all ready to shout "Allah is Great" and attack every American and European they can.

 

This of course is a nonsense.

 

The vast majority of the Arab World are just going about their daily business, feeding their families...working...taking a dump..exactly the same as us.

 

A lot of this sh*t can be placed firmly at the door of the Isreali / Palestine Issue.

 

I am going to post a link here, which I am a little wary of...It is a speech by John Pilger...it lasts for 45mins..and if you are a Brit or an American...you will find some of what he says, a little unpalatable..but I would ask you to see it through to the end.

 

It opened my eyes to the bullsh*t our governments (and Media) feed us.

You comments would be most welcome.

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-4258131083758254736#

[JediMaster 451]

As they pointed out on Jon Stewart's show last night, it's not like they'll get off. Pundits decrying "Oh, what if they get released on a technicality?" to which Jon took out 2 beer bottles and started banging them together saying "KSM...come out and play-ay..." Street justice would be quite swift, so just put him on the streets of NYC.

[OvS 8]

It's a tough one!...Yep...It sure is!

 

I guess, we as democracies are facing this inherent threat from Mad Jihadists in the best way we can.

 

But, It's very easy to fall into the trap of feeling that these nut-jobs are everywhere, in our Streets, Communities...all over the Islamic World..all ready to shout "Allah is Great" and attack every American and European they can.

 

This of course is a nonsense.

 

The vast majority of the Arab World are just going about their daily business, feeding their families...working...taking a dump..exactly the same as us.

 

A lot of this sh*t can be placed firmly at the door of the Isreali / Palestine Issue.

 

I am going to post a link here, which I am a little wary of...It is a speech by John Pilger...it lasts for 45mins..and if you are a Brit or an American...you will find some of what he says, a little unpalatable..but I would ask you to see it through to the end.

 

It opened my eyes to the bullsh*t our governments (and Media) feed us.

You comments would be most welcome.

http://video.google....31083758254736#

 

 

I'll give only 1 example to explain why I said that.... and I know this does not represent the entire Muslim community... it's only 1 man, in isolated incident(s).

 

I'll give you my ex-Manager... let's say his name is Ali ... it's a common Muslim name, as mine is Catholic, James. No profiling here.

 

Ali touted himself as a devote Muslim, and very religious. No problem, I'm Cathloic, and as religious as I can be from a working class family.

 

Ali was a British National, born, raised and educated in the UK. He was of Pakistani decent, and openly spoke Arabic... he was a nice person. I liked him. Very family orientated, and respectful that family always comes first. Good stuff right? All good.

 

Mohammed often openly critized the bible and how it did not properly teach it's followers how the community is more important than the individual... this of course, caused small debates, and light arguments. This is America, we're OK with that. Ali often sited reference to the 'Community Center' and how he was a Brother and spent a lot of time there. OK... no issues... every one is entitled to whatever spice of life makes them happy... All good .

 

When things did not go Ali's way... he was easily enraged, and yelled a lot... and I mean... YELLED. At work, this was odd... but we work in a bit of a stressful office, guys can be pricks.. so I accepted it. Now and then I had to remind good Ali that he was being rude, and he would loose his front teeth if he did not stop yelling at me... but that's OK... I understand, now and then we all flip out. All good still... we're getting there...

 

One day, I had to speak to him and stopped in him office (his office had a closed door, in a corner of the building not often visted by anyone, and alone). So I popped in unannounced... there he was sitting at his laptop watching a movie of 3 Indian Hindus beating the crap out of some Islamic Extremists at a rally somewhere in I assume India, close to Punjabi? I don't know... it was shocking to see... OK... no issue... hey, I've watched a few things on Youtube myself. He was shocked to see me standing there, and I mean, shocked. So he paused the video, and knowing I had observed what he was doing, played it for me... in obvious disgust of my seeing it. At first, it looked like any other violence video to me, a bunch of tan skinned kids beating up another that looked like the other 3. I really did not care. Been there, on the bottom, not a nice place to be during a beating. So I asked him what it was... well... that's when things did not go OK...

 

Ali proceeded to become every bit of an extremist right in front of me ... he went on a ramp about how the Hindus are taking over the world, and how Muslims have to stand-up and take back the blah.. blah... and how the world sees them as the weak link... and all kinds of other craziness. The emotion in him was something similar to when your favorite team gets their butt-kicked in a championship match.

 

My only answer to him was simple... Ali, you live in the USA now.... we don't feel that way. You're not a Pakistani, you are British. If every time I watched a video of another Sicilian being beaten by the Police, or another Italian and wanted to declare war on the world... I'd be tossed in jail. Don't take it personal, it's not yours to worry about.

 

His reply was this... you don't understand, you Americans never do. These are my brothers being beaten up here.. these are my brothers!!!

 

I promptly ended the conversation, and told him I forgot why I came to see him and left.

 

Ali is no longer my direct Manager.

 

Again... one case using a few examples, I know... I am not saying this is the way the Muslim societies outside of the Middle East are... but keep it in the back of your head... you never know who an Extremist is until they start showing signs... and then explode...

 

OvS

[OvS 8]

.... to which Jon took out 2 beer bottles and started banging them together saying "KSM...come out and play-ay..." Street justice would be quite swift, so just put him on the streets of NYC.

 

LOL!! Yeah man!! I'd be up for that!!! Warriors.... come out and play... LOL!!!

 

 

Ya know... I kinda feel better about all this already... thanks guys!

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

I'll give only 1 example to explain why I said that.... and I know this does not represent the entire Muslim community... it's only 1 man, in isolated incident(s).

 

I'll give you my ex-Manager... let's say his name is Ali ... it's a common Muslim name, as mine is Catholic, James. No profiling here.

 

Ali touted himself as a devote Muslim, and very religious. No problem, I'm Cathloic, and as religious as I can be from a working class family.

 

Ali was a British National, born, raised and educated in the UK. He was of Pakistani decent, and openly spoke Arabic... he was a nice person. I liked him. Very family orientated, and respectful that family always comes first. Good stuff right? All good.

 

Mohammed often openly critized the bible and how it did not properly teach it's followers how the community is more important than the individual... this of course, caused small debates, and light arguments. This is America, we're OK with that. Ali often sited reference to the 'Community Center' and how he was a Brother and spent a lot of time there. OK... no issues... every one is entitled to whatever spice of life makes them happy... All good .

 

When things did not go Ali's way... he was easily enraged, and yelled a lot... and I mean... YELLED. At work, this was odd... but we work in a bit of a stressful office, guys can be pricks.. so I accepted it. Now and then I had to remind good Ali that he was being rude, and he would loose his front teeth if he did not stop yelling at me... but that's OK... I understand, now and then we all flip out. All good still... we're getting there...

 

One day, I had to speak to him and stopped in him office (his office had a closed door, in a corner of the building not often visted by anyone, and alone). So I popped in unannounced... there he was sitting at his laptop watching a movie of 3 Indian Hindus beating the crap out of some Islamic Extremists at a rally somewhere in I assume India, close to Punjabi? I don't know... it was shocking to see... OK... no issue... hey, I've watched a few things on Youtube myself. He was shocked to see me standing there, and I mean, shocked. So he paused the video, and knowing I had observed what he was doing, played it for me... in obvious disgust of my seeing it. At first, it looked like any other violence video to me, a bunch of tan skinned kids beating up another that looked like the other 3. I really did not care. Been there, on the bottom, not a nice place to be during a beating. So I asked him what it was... well... that's when things did not go OK...

 

Ali proceeded to become every bit of an extremist right in front of me ... he went on a ramp about how the Hindus are taking over the world, and how Muslims have to stand-up and take back the blah.. blah... and how the world sees them as the weak link... and all kinds of other craziness. The emotion in him was something similar to when your favorite team gets their butt-kicked in a championship match.

 

My only answer to him was simple... Ali, you live in the USA now.... we don't feel that way. You're not a Pakistani, you are British. If every time I watched a video of another Sicilian being beaten by the Police, or another Italian and wanted to declare war on the world... I'd be tossed in jail. Don't take it personal, it's not yours to worry about.

 

His reply was this... you don't understand, you Americans never do. These are my brothers being beaten up here.. these are my brothers!!!

 

I promptly ended the conversation, and told him I forgot why I came to see him and left.

 

Ali is no longer my direct Manager.

 

Again... one case using a few examples, I know... I am not saying this is the way the Muslim societies outside of the Middle East are... but keep it in the back of your head... you never know who an Extremist is until they start showing signs... and then explode...

 

OvS

 

Thats just plain scary!...the guy has some serious Issues going on in that head of his!

I have a few Muslim Friends...thankfully, when I show them this...they will have the same reaction as me!...

[OvS 8]

Thats just plain scary!...the guy has some serious Issues going on in that head of his!

I have a few Muslim Friends...thankfully, when I show them this...they will have the same reaction as me!...

 

Believe me, I felt the same way. I was really taken by it and everything I had come to respect about the guy went to the toilet... and I think he knew it as I tend to wear my heart on my sleeve... as you probably have noticed by now ... LOL! I was never ashamed to ask him questions about Islam, and what the differences were.. but it all ended up the same way... in a half-heated debate as he kept insinuating 'we' have it all wrong.

 

I'm just glad he's gone from here.