The "WET START" Incident

[MAKO69 186]

Has anyone else heard about the John McAIN "Wet Start" abourd the Forrrestal. I have read many papers on this and his plane's tail was hanging over the flight deck.

[+Typhoid 231]

its not at all unusual about a plane's tail hanging over the flight deck.

 

I saw an accounting of McCain's luck with planes - some called him a "NVAF Ace" (most in the Naval Aviation style of good humor so no angry comments pls!!) The 5 plane record wasn't exactly all his fault though.

 

I don't recall a "wet-start" (meaning excess fuel in the engine compartment lighting off in an "after-burner" event). Wet starts though, were not all that unusual with the engines of the time. Not exactly the precise fuel control of today.

 

I remember our crew "torched" an engine on the E-4B one time.

 

 

he certainly did seem to be on the receiving end of stuff headed his way though.....

Edited November 16, 2009 by Typhoid

[+Typhoid 231]

I did a little digging looking past the actual accident reports and flight deck firefighting training that I went through.

 

are you asking about the deranged lunatic smear campaign that falsely and deliberately fabricated his responsibility for the Forestal flight deck disaster?

 

If so, I give you full credit for asking about it rather than blindly accepting such a blatant and disgusting campaign of lies and deceit and commend you for some degree of skeptical analysis.

 

My disgust is with those diseased and deranged lunatic fringe who somehow fabricates an utterly false sequence of events that somehow proves the responsibility for some event is other than where it is - usually for some brief political advantage.

 

the sick authors of this fraud and deliberate hoax/smear share the same derangement syndrome with the 9/11 Truthers and Moon Landing Hoax pysychotic nutcase fringe.

 

rant off.....

[fallenphoenix1986 603]

Armorers in order to save time remove safety pins on the deck park when the regs dictate they be removed at the cat. A short circuit in an F-4 causes a Zuni to fire accidentally... Zuni goes on to strike an A-4 on the other side of the ship. A-4 catches fire, fuel leaks and WWII vintage weapons cook off. An explosion kills most of the fire crew leaving untrained personel to combat a fuel fire, thier lack of expertise causes them to use water and foam when they should only be using foam, as a result the foam is carried on the water away from the fire rather than smothering the fire. More weapons cook off, fire spreads.

 

How presisely does an A-4 pilot have ANYTHING to do with this?

 

I had to look up the smear campaign as I'd never even heard of it and found this:

http://judicial-inc.biz/82jjohn_mccain_and_the_uss_forresta.htm

 

Utter BS. As mentioned above the engines of the time were prone to wet starts, and even if Mccain had carried out the wet start intentionally how does that trigger an unguided weapon on another aircraft on the oposite side of the ship which if I remember corectly was facing the A-4 nose to nose...

 

Craig

 

appologies for the rant...

 

 

[GwynO 16]

Ridiculous conspiracy theories and a large part of religious fundamentalism, all share the same root, an inability to deal with the mundane, haphazard and all to human nature of existence. Why should these nancy boys accept a logical scenario that only indicates that accidents happen when instead they can believe in some hidden "truth" that only people as cool as themselves are prepared to accept. Any attempt to reason with these "cool" people only reinforces their warped view of the world, because of course anyone presenting evidence contrary of the conspiracy must be part of the conspiracy, or worse, an ignorant pleb incapable of questioning their view of reality.

 

Truth be told, I once used to be a believer! I swallowed so many conspiracy stories hook line and sinker until I decided that I wanted to contribute some knowledge, I too wanted my own channel on internet TV, or to be an internet sensation.. but the more I researched, the more errors, untruths, misunderstandings and outright lies go into even the most convincing sounding conspiracy stories. I can only really empathise and perhaps pity a little, the many people out there that can't make the mental arithmetic of how many people it would take to be in on these conspiracies yet keep it all to themselves for them to work. If any of these Global Conspiracy type scenarios were true, it would suggest some kind of purpose and intelligence to an otherwise unintelligent, haphazard and dare I say it meaningless existence. I would suggest therefore that it is the same kind of human response to chaos that produces religious zealotry, bigotry such as the Inquisition or Nazism, and cocksure fundamentalism such as Al Qaeda, a desire at the heart of all of these to ascribe some sinister purposeful mastermind behind the problems of the world, problems that only they are deemed capable of understanding and solving. My advice to such delusional people is get out more.. talk to people! Have fun! Try talking with girls of the same species, laugh a lot and question your own hidden agenda lurking in the dark and quiet corners of your mind as much as you question other people and you will be fine.

[MAKO69 186]

I did a little digging looking past the actual accident reports and flight deck firefighting training that I went through.

 

are you asking about the deranged lunatic smear campaign that falsely and deliberately fabricated his responsibility for the Forestal flight deck disaster?

 

If so, I give you full credit for asking about it rather than blindly accepting such a blatant and disgusting campaign of lies and deceit and commend you for some degree of skeptical analysis.

 

My disgust is with those diseased and deranged lunatic fringe who somehow fabricates an utterly false sequence of events that somehow proves the responsibility for some event is other than where it is - usually for some brief political advantage.

 

the sick authors of this fraud and deliberate hoax/smear share the same derangement syndrome with the 9/11 Truthers and Moon Landing Hoax pysychotic nutcase fringe.

 

rant off.....

 

 

 

Rant I will not I just was wonderig if anybody else heard this B.S. The tail of his plane was pointed over the deck out to sea.

 

I have seen wet starts they dont belch flame like a torch its just very black smoke with a little fire that will blow out.

Edited November 17, 2009 by MAKO69

[+Typhoid 231]

I have seen wet starts they dont belch flame like a torch its just very black smoke with a little fire that will blow out.

 

yep, most of the time.

 

if fuel hasn't puddled in the engine chamber for some reason

 

Which points out that the deranged smear is totally off-base even IF any jet was actually pointed at the rockets (which there weren't)

 

not to mention that the idea that anyone strapping into a machine with 6k to 26k of kerosene or avgas (depending on aircraft type) would intentionally start off by deliberately initiating what is essentially an engine fire is simply deranged nonsense.

 

"I will not I just was wonderig if anybody else heard this B.S. The tail of his plane was pointed over the deck out to sea."

 

exactly!!

 

I hadn't heard any of that until you happened to ask. When I went through flight deck fire fighting school (absolutely one of THE BEST military training schools one can ever go through!) we got the detailed post-analysis of all of the carrier fires. This was the first I'd seen of those pathetic, deranged morons fabricated smear.

 

and permit me to thank you for asking about it.

Edited November 17, 2009 by Typhoid

[FastCargo 412]

I swallowed so many conspiracy stories hook line and sinker until I decided that I wanted to contribute some knowledge, I too wanted my own channel on internet TV, or to be an internet sensation.. but the more I researched, the more errors, untruths, misunderstandings and outright lies go into even the most convincing sounding conspiracy stories. I can only really empathise and perhaps pity a little, the many people out there that can't make the mental arithmetic of how many people it would take to be in on these conspiracies yet keep it all to themselves for them to work. If any of these Global Conspiracy type scenarios were true, it would suggest some kind of purpose and intelligence to an otherwise unintelligent, haphazard and dare I say it meaningless existence. I would suggest therefore that it is the same kind of human response to chaos that produces religious zealotry, bigotry such as the Inquisition or Nazism, and cocksure fundamentalism such as Al Qaeda, a desire at the heart of all of these to ascribe some sinister purposeful mastermind behind the problems of the world, problems that only they are deemed capable of understanding and solving. My advice to such delusional people is get out more.. talk to people! Have fun! Try talking with girls of the same species, laugh a lot and question your own hidden agenda lurking in the dark and quiet corners of your mind as much as you question other people and you will be fine.

 

I don't always agree with you on stuff, but this is a great statement right here.

 

Here is a good article: http://www.cracked.com/article_15974_7-insane-conspiracies-that-actually-happened.html

 

Notice that in just about all of them, it only took one person to cause the whole thing to unravel. And notice, most of them were also before the days of 24/7 information access and ubiquitous video cameras everywhere in private and public hands.

 

Conspiracy theorists usually give the conspirators (governments) WAY too much credit...but wouldn't trust the government to balance their checkbook. What part of that makes sense...

 

FC

[+Typhoid 231]

and a couple more great links

 

http://zapatopi.net/afdb/

 

http://zapatopi.net/afdb/links.html

 

http://zapatopi.net/bsa/militia/

 

http://users.chartertn.net/tonytemplin/FBI_eyes/index.html

 

and just to finish up -

 

http://www.shibumi.org/eoti.htm

 

[GwynO 16]

"I don't always agree with you on stuff, but this is a great statement right here."

Bookmarked, printed off and photographed for future reference! FC once agreed with me on something

 

 

 

 

 

"Conspiracy theorists usually give the conspirators (governments) WAY too much credit...but wouldn't trust the government to balance their checkbook. What part of that makes sense..."

 

None of it makes sense in an ordinary way, it is a matter of faith. People who subscribe to such conspiratorial beliefs see absence of evidence as evidence of incredible power and control of their "deity" for want of a better word, the NWO is filling in for what used to happen in earlier stages of human evolution. A coping mechanism for dealing with chaos is to project some kind of order onto an otherwise random series of events. Belief in the conspiracy does take on a religious character, the central figure, rather than a God of good, is somewhat like a devil figure yet still with the religious aspect of being all present, all powerful and present since time immemorial.

 

 

 

 

[Lexx_Luthor 57]

:lol:

 

Funny site. Dr. Strangelove = Prescott Bush

 

FC::

Here is a good article:

http://www.cracked.com/article_15974_7-insane-conspiracies-that-actually-happened.html

 

:

:

But at least the United States never ended up becoming a fascist dictatorship (unless you ask Ron Paul supporters).

:

The lesson here? Fascist or not, you don't f*** around with guys named Smedley or Dickstein.

 

 

That made my day, triply so (Bush - Paul - Smedley/Dickstein) Thanks.

I had to write in Ron Paul() on the ballot, but that's still funny as hell.

[Nathan 0]

Wet starts are quite common in jet engines , seen them many a time . My first ever one i saw was a VC-10 cargo plane loaded with Weapons about to take of at my old station . We just happened to be by the threshold when the vc-10 was throttling up to take off when a huge flame shot out of its arse end and the engine made a very strange noise . Nearly pooed myself and was going to get up on the monitor ( foam cannon ) on the fire truck , when an old hand said stop flapping Nath they always do that !!!! , dont you panic unless you see the air crew jump and run from the plane then you can flap . It is caused by an excess of fuel in the jet engine , but generally it just burns out .