HItR original AI

[Gous 0]

Well said British_eh.

 

Especially here:

On thing is clear, and that is that any change that will reduce the number of casualaties, is more realistic. There are numerous accounts of twenty or so planes involved in a scrap, with perhaps only one plane being shot down, and several other's being able to limp back. One of the more realistic traits would therefore be for the AI to turn and run. Having made a few inquiries with OBD, the CFS3 code is the mystery, and bits of it are slowly being unravelled. If their behaviour could be more evasive, that too would be a bonus. As for aggression, I have yet in P3 to have a Scout pilot last more than 6 hours. Now, that is not completely realistic. The 17 hour, or two week expectancy for the Front, was in a specific time of Bloody April. A report commissioned for Parliament in early 1917 gave the expectancy of a Bomber Crew of 10 weeks, and a Scout pilot 6 weeks, at the Western Front. If that could be incorporated into the sim, so that you don't die on your first mission ( as above), then truly the sim will be realistic. Many of us fly DiD, as this is the closest that we believe will give us the most comparable vicarious experience a game can provide. It is obviously an effort for the OBD Team, to tweak and adjust the sim, to provide this, ( I would presume).

 

Sometimes the AI gets too damn vicious. Survival goes first, and not killing...

Edited December 17, 2009 by Gous

[themightysrc 5]

Here's my latest experience.

 

I enlisted Rupert de Baer into 24 RFC (DH2's) for mid April 1917, and the first mission available (damn the snow) was a full squadron patrol North West, taking in the front line.

 

Sure enough, here come the DIII's. We outnumbered them 2 to 1 and I stood off to see what happened. Creaghorn's observation - on this occasion, at least - were borne out. I don't think the Huns had any aces present, but over about 5-6 minutes the DIII's were all - slowly - despatched by the squadron. A subsequent encounter on the same patrol with a couple of DII's was even more one sided. I don't think I saw a single DH2 go down.

 

I finally peeled off on my own and found about 4-5 DIII's further North and took them on. I was hit PDQ and the motor made the traditional twin-tub with loose concrete block noises, so I dived out of the fight for a nearby base. The Alb's gave chase and I was shot down into some trees (but survived, thankfully).

 

Not sure if that's at all definitive: two different sorts of AI behaviour in one mission that might have been predicated on numbers - the first two encounters we outnumbered the Huns heavily, in my last solo effort I was outnumbered at least 4 to 1.

 

Does this have any resonance with anyone else?

[DukeIronHand 8]

In my series of QC's it did appear the opposing AI had no problem dealing with my wingmen - us in Alb DIII's vs DH2's - unless my boys disengaged during combat - I did have several moments of chasing the enemy off their tails. I never saw one actually shot down but that does not mean it didn't happen.

 

I didn't use the "Wingman Attack" key and that may be/could be a reason. As time allows I will experiment some more and try to be more observant.

[zoomzoom 2]

Hmmmm. Interesting. Morris, what kind of flights are you swatting down Krauts like flys in? Just curious, maybe we can refine our focus a tad. Is this against enemy fighters exclusively and in campaign mode? Its good to know we are actually comparing apples and apples you see.

 

Mightysrc....so what you are saying is the outnumbered enemy craft just bungled in and attacked anyway...(sort of aka old AI version, always aggressive) even though the odds were against them? I have yet to see this happen, so its interesting to classify it.

 

Dunno, guess it could be an example of a green rookie squad being stupid and paying the penalty......did happen on occasion.....just not a lot.

 

ZZ.

 

Any other ideas...refinements welcomed.

[Morris 2]

Dear ZoomZoom,

 

im only playing campaign mode.

 

During P3 i would only make 3-4 kills during a flight (so that would be fighters or bombers) or even less.

 

now its close to 7 kills a flight (still in campaign). the AI is not aggressive.

 

i have 13 pending kills for a single day.

 

apples and apples = campaign and campaign.

 

morris

[zoomzoom 2]

That IS wierd. Hmmm.

 

I can't figure it. In the last fight I described, I would have normally gotten 2-3 kills, instead I limped away with none. Are you flying DID or with aids....(NOT the disease!!! ) Just fishing for anything that might quantify some of this phenomenon. Not trying to pick at your data...it is most helpfull.

 

ZZ.

 

 

I ask because I only fly DID, so there may be some elemental effect there.

Edited December 17, 2009 by zoomzoom

[Morris 2]

Dear ZoomZoom,

 

i have just been killed by a bomber.....

 

I fly DID!

 

ps. i dont even fiddle with the pilots record files.

 

Have a great day.

 

morris

[ricnunes 1]

Actually I'm liking the way the "new AI" in HitR behaves to the point that I really thought that this "new AI" was in fact a new feature and NOT a porked AI!

This AI fixes what I find to be the biggest OFF problem which is the "yoyoing" that aircraft do when they get at low altitudes! This "yoyoing" is in fact (and IMO) the biggest problem in OFF where many of the AI aircraft (specially low powered ones) actually end up killed by this "yoyoing" and not be enemy fire! One of the AI aircraft that usually did this was the Fokker EIII but now the "new AI" simply fixed the "yoyoing" - At least in Fokker EIII and I strongly suspect in all other aircraft as well since now the AI will keep their altitude only diving to low altitudes in cases of emergency and this folks is REALISTIC! Even when AI go to low altitudes they don't do the "yoyoing" stuff!

 

I also started a campaing with the RFC 24 squadron and I notice that AI take longer to shot down enemy aircraft but they seemed agressive enough (AI versus AI). Neverthless I got the impression that the enemy AI was somehow less agressive towards the player but that could be because in the missions that I flew so far, the enemy AIs were quite outnumbered in a ratio of at least 3 to 1 (favouring my flight).

 

But I also think that the an AI that is being attacked could be much more agressive in it's defensive manouvers!

 

Also I haven't experienced the same thing as Morris did! For me, it much harder to kill someone now with HitR than before!

 

So IMO:

 

Is the "new AI" in HitR better than the previous OFF3 v1.32g in general terms? Yes, I strongly believe so!

 

Does the "new AI" in HitR needs to be more defensive or "more agressive" in terms of defensve manouvers when attacked? Yes, definitly it does!

 

Does the "new AI" in HitR needs to be more agressive when attacking the enemy? I'm kinda in doubt here. Sometimes I would say NO. But if this is to be improved (improvements are always welcome) then this shouldn't be improved by much.

 

 

So basically what the future AI needs IMO is:

 

- To be exactly the "new AI" in HitR with AI attacking manouvers slightly improved and having the AI defensive manouvers from version 1.32g!

[Olham 164]

Morris, I think what Zoomzoom might aim for is, that we all possibly see very

different quality AI, depending on our settings and maybe also the quality of

our rigs, mainly CPU and GPU.

While many write, they find the new AI boring, I cannot say so; I had very good fights

and make less kills now.

[themightysrc 5]

"Mightysrc....so what you are saying is the outnumbered enemy craft just bungled in and attacked anyway...(sort of aka old AI version, always aggressive) even though the odds were against them? I have yet to see this happen, so its interesting to classify it."

 

Actually, the outnumbered Huns were simply overwhelmed by numbers, I suspect. That they didn't cut and run made me think they were a rookie Jasta - J24(w) I think it was. the poor sods in the DIIs stood little chance, IMO, as they were lower than 24 RFC when attacked.

[Siggi 10]

I had to try out the campaign AI, so I did so with a German test-pilot I already had. Funnily enough it was on the day before the armistice.

 

Anyway, to cut a long story short, after a very long flight we came upon a mixed bag of D7s, SPADs and Camels, at various heights. I got a SPAD, a SPAD shot my motor to bits but I managed to bag a Camel on the way down.

 

From what I experienced in that one combat I saw nothing wrong with the AI. And four D7s that were going at it with a lone Camel, right on the deck, also looked good to me.

Edited December 17, 2009 by Siggi

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

To make sure we are comparing "apples to apples," we should be careful to note which squadrons or Jastas we are up against. Some of the different AI behavior observed by ZZ vs. Morris could be due to differences in overall squadron skill.

[themightysrc 5]

Mein Herr,

 

Quite agree - if I'm out with 24 RFC tonight (I recall they're considered elite(ish)) I'll make a note of the jastas encountered, type/no. of aircraft and relative heights at the start of hostilities.

[zoomzoom 2]

Good point yet again HPW.

 

ZZ.

 

Morris, as Olham mentioned, I wasn't implying you weren't DID material. Just trying to cover all of the parameters of variation.

 

Also:

 

Actually, the outnumbered Huns were simply overwhelmed by numbers, I suspect. That they didn't cut and run made me think they were a rookie Jasta - J24(w) I think it was. the poor sods in the DIIs stood little chance, IMO, as they were lower than 24 RFC when attacked

 

Sounds logical M-SRC.

[Morris 2]

GENTLEMEN,

 

I only said that the AI is not agressive enough, nothing with the flight manouvers. HiTR flight manouvers are far superior than OFF3 v1.32g.

 

These are the spec. of my rig:

Quad Core 3.00 GHz CPU

8 Gig Ram

Win 7 64bit

Geforce GTX 280 with 1gig ram.

 

So lets all make peace. Its close to Xmas.

 

Morris

[Morris 2]

these are the Jasta i encountered:

 

Jasta 6

Jasta 37

Jasta 8

Jasta 28 w

Jasta 18

Jasta 27

Bomber squads from:

SS 12

FA(A)

SS 26 b - i got shot down by them.

 

Hope this info in helpfull.

 

m

[zoomzoom 2]

Thanks kind sir. There was never any discord to begin with. We are simply refining our accuracy to discern whats happening, and we appreciate your assistance.

 

Merry Christmas to you also.

 

ZZ.

[Olham 164]

Yes, just a debate, not a hassle.

 

Not really Xmas yet, but I wish you all a lovely one.

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Didn't mean to imply the debate was not friendly. We are all comrades in (sim)arms, right?