Favorite Falkand's War Aircraft

[NH2112 0]

1) Both sides' troops were honorable men doing the job they chose and fighting for their countries, and neither deserve disrespectful comments made about them or their losses. You can try to kill each other, just don't talk smack about each other!

 

2) re Belgrano being outside the war zone. Call me old-fashioned, but there are no safe areas during a war. I couldn't care if the Belgrano was in the Persian Gulf at the time, she'd be fair game to any Brit ships or aircraft who happened to find her.

[+Jug 99]

1) Both sides' troops were honorable men doing the job they chose and fighting for their countries, and neither deserve disrespectful comments made about them or their losses. You can try to kill each other, just don't talk smack about each other!

 

2) re Belgrano being outside the war zone. Call me old-fashioned, but there are no safe areas during a war. I couldn't care if the Belgrano was in the Persian Gulf at the time, she'd be fair game to any Brit ships or aircraft who happened to find her.

 

Response to 2) I couldn't agree more. Rules of war are State Department baloney. The winner writes the rules and the history. Every side has some heinous activity that their troops were directly involved in. The only boundries are neutral territories, and even then, only when it suits both sides. Bye the way, for those of you who refuse to pull your heads out of the sand, a war against terrorists has no boundries. Kick them out of your country yourself, or plan to have some really bad visitors that are going to do some really bad things on your turf.

[Marcantilan 0]

The Belgrano sinking is still a HOT topic here in Argentina, and many people (mostly not in the military) think the attack was a war crime

 

Speaking only for myself, I have the same opinion as the Belgrano commander, Captain Bonzo: The Belgrano was a (proud) weapon system in a war mission, so she was a legitimate target.

 

Someone infra (below in latin) commented about the Argentinian navy performance (or lack of) in the South Atlantic War. About this service (my service) I only could comment the exceptional performance of

 

Naval Aviation (you could credit Ardent, Atlantic Conveyor and Sheffield)

 

Marines (BIM 5 - Marine Infantry Battallion nº5- at Tumbledown was considered the best unit of the defenders)

 

Submarine Force (ARA San Luis was active almost all the conflict, stalking the fleet and launching attacks in at least 2 occasions, even with innefective SST-4 torpedoes and a broken fire computer)

 

About the fleet, without means against nuclear submarines, what else could do?

 

Finally, no war is a football match, some of the posts in this thread are very disgusting.

[ODBTuv 0]

OK fellas I have read all of the posts on this popular thread, I was drawn immediately to the title and expected a debate on the merits of various aircraft, being a fan of heavy aircraft I went for the Vulcan, i have seen one up close in IWM Duxford and was impressed, i gave money to the project to restore a Vulcan to airworthiness.

That all said I am more than a little disappointed that this thread turned into a wrangling match about how many aircraft were shot down by who. This was a war, people died, people on both sides. Regardless of your politics and nationality ( I am British for those who want to know) that merits some respect to be displayed. Servicemen did not decide to go there, the politicians sent them. They all did their job nothing more nothing less. Do not belittle the bravery of Argentinian or British service personnel by trying to fight the war again in these threads or by inflammatory point scoring posts. There are two sides to any story and somewhere in the middle is the truth.

 

I will remind those who read this thread and those who choose to contribute further to stick to the original topic.....aircraft.

[Dagger 21]

ODBTuv, I agree with you 100%.I lost track of this one and it went south fast.ANY MORE,and I mean just 1 more political or DISRESPECTFUL comment against ANY government,military,or person then this one will be locked.Combatace is one of the few forums that would allow this thread to stay open this far.BUT you're pushing it.The origional question stands but stay with it.PERIOD!FINAL warning.

[spook27 5]

On a serious note, the disparity in information on air combat kills and other stats does not at first inspire confidence in a Falklands Sim project developed outside of the UK. I hope the developer can show he is working closely with authentic British sources of information and is not involved with the propaganda that is still prevelant in the less-developed World.

 

In case any Americans fail to understand the real potential threat to truth here, try to imagine a Vietnam Era Sim made by developers in Hanoi with a mission script by Jane Fonda! I kind of look forward to the Falklands Sim, but like many Brits, I am also cringing a little bit. There is nothing wrong with depicting all aspects of a difficult episode with mistakes and tragedy on both sides, but I don't ever want to read some of the crap I have been exposed to here in a Commercial Simulator.

 

To the developer, please check your sources carefully and start with a free and open press along with documents and publications freely available in a true democracy.

 

Please get it right and put my hairy arse in a Harrier every time!

Edited November 4, 2006 by spook27

[Argentine Pucara 1]

ODBTuv, I agree with you 100%.I lost track of this one and it went south fast.ANY MORE,and I mean just 1 more political or DISRESPECTFUL comment against ANY government,military,or person then this one will be locked.Combatace is one of the few forums that would allow this thread to stay open this far.BUT you're pushing it.The origional question stands but stay with it.PERIOD!FINAL warning.

 

Here' one:

 

"I hope the developer can show he is working closely with authentic British sources of information and is not involved with the propaganda that is still prevelant in the less-developed World."

[rhugouvi 0]

Argentine Pucara, I second that.

[Dagger 21]

OK..This is the Dev teams sim..period.I am sure they will be doing BOTH sides justice.IF you want to turn this into a polictal debate on which side did what then this topic will be HEAVILY edited to remove anything EXCEPT responses that pertain to the origional topic.FINAL WARNING to everyone...period.I don't care British or Argintine,or any other nationality for that matter.Stay on topic.May I suggest if you a question for the team ask them in a PM NOT here!

[MigBuster 2,884]

After reading "Sea Harrier Over the Falklands" by Nigel "Sharkey" Ward(Commanding Officer of 801 squadron on Invincible) it is defo the Sea Harrier. Unlike the British public and a lot of the world the Argentinians had respect for the 'Shar' it seems before the Task force even got there - mainly due to friendly encounters before the conflict that were publicised by Mr Ward (so he says). In these encounters they had turned over some F-15's from Bitburg and an F-5E Aggressor squadron, using his own experience of denying a AIM-7 Sparrow shot (he flew F-4's off the Ark Royal in the 70's) and an AIM-9 Sidewinder shot by rotating the nozzles and hiding the heat signature. That being said the turning circle for the shar was not that great - this man just knew how to use the plane and discovered its aerodynamic law breaking slow speed control it had.

 

Some interesting points he picks out - In the first encounter with the Mirage 3's he thought they had fired missiles head on at them - these turned out to be the centreline drop tanks (The Mirages were at much higher altitude and diving) - and as confirmed after the war(apparently) - the Argentines had no spares so this limited the Mirages range and probably stopped them CAPping over the Falklands.

 

He was unable to get a head on lock with an AIM-9L - (in a freezing atmosphere) because he thought the Mirages must have 'throttled back' - in every sim ive played an AIM-9L lock from any angle is always available - it obviously was not as "all aspect" as made out!

 

He developed tactics that allowed 801 to bomb accurately from 20000ft, something the Vulcan could not achieve (The Vulcan dropped ~63 bombs but only 1 hit the side of Port Stanley runway - it was never out of action during the war)- though the avionics in the SHAR were new.

[+SkippyBing 8]

The Lynx, sounds like a swarm of wasps out to kill and still one of the best looking helicopters around. And having seen how under equipped the Mk 2 that was in service in the Falklands was I am in awe of the crews for operating it down there, not to mention getting a kill with an untried weapon system.

[+Dante-JT 6]

He was unable to get a head on lock with an AIM-9L - (in a freezing atmosphere) because he thought the Mirages must have 'throttled back' - in every sim ive played an AIM-9L lock from any angle is always available - it obviously was not as "all aspect" as made out!

Yes this 'throttled back' tactic is an important feature. It's also worth to read "Hostile Skies" by David Morgan, it's the 800 sqd version of the war and rivals that of Ward - he described also how he tried to get a Sidewinder lock in a Pucara (prop plane) and had trouble. He also critises Wards decision to enter in that turning fight with that Pucara described in 'Sea Harrier Over the Falklands' - he says the Pucara managed to get some kills on the Shar in mock fights later, with the captured units the british had.

 

 

The Lynx, sounds like a swarm of wasps out to kill and still one of the best looking helicopters around.

 

The only thing breaking the looks of the Lynx is that tail bent slightly downwards :)

[MigBuster 2,884]

Yes this 'throttled back' tactic is an important feature. It's also worth to read "Hostile Skies" by David Morgan, it's the 800 sqd version of the war and rivals that of Ward - he described also how he tried to get a Sidewinder lock in a Pucara (prop plane) and had trouble. He also critises Wards decision to enter in that turning fight with that Pucara described in 'Sea Harrier Over the Falklands' - he says the Pucara managed to get some kills on the Shar in mock fights later, with the captured units the british had.

The only thing breaking the looks of the Lynx is that tail bent slightly downwards :)

 

Hostile Skies is on my Amazon List at the moment so will defo take a look - glad to see you are taking the AIM-9L thing into account too - The sim is shaping up nicely and I will be supporting it when its released.

[+SkippyBing 8]

The only thing breaking the looks of the Lynx is that tail bent slightly downwards :)

 

Yeah, I used to think that and even played around with changing the angle on a model kit. Nowadays I kind of like it. Mind you I am biased.