Need some advice regarding escort missions, please

[vonOben 55]

Hi

 

Last evening I was assigned a reconnaissance mission where we should escort 3 Roland CII’s. Shortly after take off the Roland’s appeared, but I continued following the assigned waypoints showed on the TAC, circling the arfield. Flight 1 went away possibly following the Roland’s.

 

I continued going from waypoint to waypoint but no sign of flight 1 or the Roland’s. When I came to one of the waypoints the TAC didn’t recognise that I had overflown it. I flew back and fort over the waypoint but it was never recognised so I tried next waypoint (Shft+W) but it didn’t work.

 

Should I ignore the waypoints when on escort missions, only trying to catch-up with the aircraft I should escort?

 

Any ideas why the waypoint overflown wasn’t recognised and why the next waypoint command didn't work?

 

Thanks for any help!

 

S!

 

vonOben

[Olham 164]

VonOben, the waypoints sometimes don't work for me, too.

Don't know, why. But I think, next waypoint is only "w"? (Or I have changed my profile.)

 

When you have an escort mission, climb up to the two-seaters.

They usually turn for their waypoints then.

You must only follow them - ignore your own TAC waypoints.

If you warp, the two-seaters may be gone, and you'll have to find them again

(following your own waypoints, but it is not good that they are elsewhere).

 

Best is to fly higher behind them.

That way, you don't loose the sight of them, and you can see enemy flights approaching them.

Attack enemies, but don't follow them too far down - let them go.

Don't press the "attack" command, cause your wingmen will follow the enemies down to the deck.

Better is, to press the "help" command; now your direct wingman will help you more.

For the others, it's best to mark enemy planes, that remain high, and press "attack" then.

But very often, it ends that way, that everybody is fighting at tree level, and the two-seaters

are alone.

hope, I didn't confuse you. Have fun!

Edited June 5, 2010 by Olham

[Hasse Wind 46]

Shouldn't using warp keep the planes together? At least this is how it works when I fly my 2-seater pilots and use warp, then my escorts automatically stay with my formation during the warp. When not warping, the escorts usually abandon me and go chasing after random enemies. But they return (if they aren't dead yet) when I press warp again.

 

Historically speaking, trying to coordinate escorts, or any other planes, during WW1 was very difficult. It was lot easier in WW2 with radios and flight directors in command centres. The easiest method of getting escorts to fly with the planes they were supposed to escort was to start from the same airfield at the same time.

[Olham 164]

Not in my case, Hasse Wind - if I have to escort fighters and press "warp", the two-seaters vanish.

I usually find them far ahead, already over the front or even on their way back.

Not sure, if I'm alone with that strange result.

[Hasse Wind 46]

It's been a long time since I last flew an escort mission as a fighter pilot, so I can't remember how the AI behaves in those situations. But I think warping should regroup your planes when you press the button. It can be used for controlling the combat to some extent if you want to avoid your wingmen getting completely distracted and fighting to the death, ie. fly away and press warp so they will automatically follow you. But it's also possible that the behaviour you see with 2-seaters not staying with your flight when warping is actually how the sim is supposed to work. Why it's different from being in a 2-seater plane yourself, I don't know.

[Bullethead 12]

In my experience, escort missions are divided into the following phases:

 

1. Playing Catch-Up

The buffs don't wait for you. They spawn directly overhead while you're still on the ground, and away they go on their ingress path. This means you have to forego the usual circling of your field and chase off after them immediately, climbing for all you're worth. If you warp immediately, your flight will go around in circles while the buffs press on, and you'll never catch them.

 

You CAN sometimes get around this by selecting Next Waypoint until you're on your ingress path before warping, but this doesn't always work. This is because warping keeps you at some silly low altitude until you get to that waypoint about 1/2way to the objective, when it suddenly bumps you up to nearly the full mission height. Thus, if you meet the enemy before this waypoint, odds are you'll still be way below the buffs and unable to protect them. OTOH, you do get a good view of their destruction . Also, if you get to operational altitude manually and warp before this 1st ingress waypoint, you'll find yourself low again if you get into a fight. So, my advice is, never warp on escort missions until you've passed this 1st ingress waypoint. After that, no real problems.

 

Also note that your waypoints don't match up with what really happens. On your map, you'll see that you're supposed to meet the buffs somewhere away from your airfield instead of overhead. That rendezvous waypoint really is there and will stop your warping, but nothing happens there because the buffs were actually over your field.

 

 

2. Riding Herd

Once you've caught up with your buffs, you need to stay in the correct relative position to them. Best thing is to be about 1000 feet above and a little behind them. This way, you can pounce on enemies attacking the buffs from the rear. This is about the only direction you have to worry about because enemy fighters seem to ignore chances for head-on and beam attacks. Depending on how aggressive their AI is, they may dive on the buffs from the rear, but usually they come in more or less level from behind. Mostly, they'll ignore you to go for the buffs, but sometimes, a few will go for your flight while the rest head for the buffs. If that happens, tell 1 element of your wingmen to deal with them and lead the rest after the main enemies at the buffs.

 

The most important thing in escorting is not to get very far below or behind the buffs, because they're helpless until you regain your herding position. The 2nd most important thing is to evaluate threats. Enemy fighters below the buffs aren't a problem and probably never will be, so don't worry about them. Just keep an eye on them and see if they are climbing up. Usually the buffs will leave them behind, but if the egress and ingress paths are close together, you might have to worry about them on the way home.

 

When defending against enemy fighters, try VERY hard not to get tangled up in a furball. All you're trying to do is make the enemy dive away below and behind the buffs. Once they're there, they're no longer a threat. You have to avoid getting in that position yourself because then you leave the buffs ungarded while you're back to playing catch-up. So what you want to do is swoop in from your position above and behind the buffs, make 1 pass which forces the enemy to turn and dive away, then pull back up to your guard station. It's a good idea not to give your wingmen attack orders because then they'll get tangled up and you'll have to leave them behind as you follow the buffs. Just use the Rejoin command to keep them with you as you make your swoop.

 

Bottom line: your objective is not to kill the enemy, but to keep the enemy from killing the buffs. All you have to do is force the enemy into a position from which he can't attack the buffs and you're home free. So, unless you get in a fatal blindside hit on your 1 swooping pass, you're probably not going to get any kills while being an escort if you're doing your job correctly.

 

3. Free Hunt

Despite the ingress rendezvous waypoint being meaningless, the split-up waypoint on egress does function as expected. When you get there, the buffs will suddenly turn sharply off your course and start a fairly steep dive back toward their base. If you're warping home, the warp will stop at this point. As far as the game is concerned, your mission is now complete. You can, if desired, ignore the buffs from here on out.

 

This point can present you with a decision, however. Sometimes an enemy flight will be following the buffs, safely below them and not a threat, but gradually closing in. Under normal circumstances, you'd be keeping an eye on them and could expect to have to swoop them in 5 minutes or so, unless they give up and turn away first. But at the split-up point, suddenly the buffs dive away, which puts them quickly below the enemy, who will often dive after them. So, even though you've done your job, it would be a pity to abandon the buffs at this point. Now, however, you can afford to get tangled up and kill these bastids, especially since you're over friendly territory and the buffs are going away as fast as they can.

 

Most times, however, once the buffs leave, you're on your own. If you've still got fuel and ammo, you can turn back towards the lines and try to get in a fight. I recommend doing this to work off the frustration of not being able to kill anybody up to this point. So, be sure to take enough fuel to have some fun during this phase.

 

 

[vonOben 55]

Hi

Thanks a lot for all your good ideas!

 

I had another escort mission before I had read your suggestions.

 

This time I tried to follow first flight. They circled the airfield and the Roland’s flew away and we didn’t see them until we were over no man’s land. Flight 1 ignored the Roland’s and continued flying in the same direction as previously. I followed the Roland’s and on the way back when we were about half way between no man’s land and our airfield the Roland’s started to circle over a town. We circled there for about ten minutes when I gave up and left them circling and flew back to my airfield.

 

Shouldn’t first flight also escort the two-seaters?

What was that circling about?

 

Cheers

 

vonOben

 

Edited June 7, 2010 by vonOben

[Olham 164]

Forget about A-flight - they always do their own things.

Just climb to the Rolands and follow them. The only way to stay with them and protect them.

Edited June 8, 2010 by Olham

[zoomzoom 2]

Some more ideas.

 

If they are Hannovers, I fly above and overwatch, as others here have mentioned, swooping down on any attackers.

 

For Rolands however, I change up tactics, as they are such a formidable armada to attack, I will often fly right in with them as a large formation. As soon as enemies are in range, thier rear gunners begin to chatter, (a helpful alarm) and we can then use them as cover for turning attacks at the same level, usually driving down attackers due to the volume of fire from the mixed fighter/rear gunner tactic. From here, you can either stay in the group, or, if at an advantage in numbers, pique down on the now lower aggressors from a position of safety.

 

The only time this became messy was when we were assaulted by two different large groups of enemy planes. Then it simply broke the formation and a huge free-for-all resulted. This didn't go too badly though as the Rolands all made it back and our losses were minimal.

 

ZZ.

[Winston DoRight 3]

A small cheat but it works well. We use it in multiplayer a lot: Select one of the aircraft that you are escorting with your 'TAB' key. Make sure it is highlighted yellow on your TAC. Now throughout your mission don't select any other aircraft. When you press your padlock key, you'll snap your view towards your target, in this case the planes you should be escorting. This will work at extreme range too in case you get well seperated.

 

Don't use warp on a escort mission. Suck it up and fly it all in real time or risk warp taking you where you shouldn't be going.

Edited June 8, 2010 by Winston DoRight

[Hasse Wind 46]

I've been using warp extensively outside our full DiD campaign, and I've seen it go wrong only once, when I didn't pay attention to the map and the warp decided to take my flight of four N.17 deep over the North Sea. That cost me my pilot and taught me to always look at the map when warping. If something goes wrong, you can immediately see it and press the button(s) (Ctrl + X by default) to stop warping.

 

There's no risk when using warp with this method. At least for me, it would be impossible to fly every single mission in real time. Unfortunately I'm yet unable to devote my entire life to playing OFF.

[Olham 164]

Hasse Wind, warp and escort don't go together; at least for me. The two-seaters always disappear; also the A-flight.

[Hasse Wind 46]

Yeah, I guess I should get back to flying fighters one of these days and see it for myself.

 

But my advice about warping in general should be sound.

[Olham 164]

Yes, warping in general went wrong for me only twice, I think. I ended up in the Ardennes both times;

still don't know, how that happened, and good advice with having the map on, Hasse Wind.

I never dared to do that, cause I expected it to go wrong even easier then. I'll try it.

 

But escort is special. Not your warp goes wrong there - only that you won't be with the 2seats;

they are always at the front far earlier, and you have to catch up with them. Which can be too late.

[Bullethead 12]

But escort is special. Not your warp goes wrong there - only that you won't be with the 2seats;

they are always at the front far earlier, and you have to catch up with them. Which can be too late.

 

Warping on escort missions is only a problem prior IP (the Initial Point, the last waypoint prior to the target). This is becaus a) the 2-seaters spawn overhead instead of you meeting them en route as your map shows, b) the 2-seaters don't want for you but head towards the target from the get-go, and c) your waypoints (which is what warp uses) assume you'll circle, then meet the 2-seaters en route. After IP, which is after your waypoints show you meeting the 2-seates, there are no problems with warping at all.

 

Of course, the above is only possible if you use TAC. If you don't use TAC (which IMHO is equivalent to pretending you're so myopic that you'd have failed your flight physical and never gotten closer to the front than Wing HQ, where your thick glasses would have suited you perfectly for stamping DENIED on all requests from the fighting units), then you'll never know when you're really at a given waypoint. Thus, you're stuck with doing the whole mission in realtime. But to each his own.

[Duce Lewis 3]

Hasse Wind, warp and escort don't go together; at least for me. The two-seaters always disappear; also the A-flight.

The problem with warp is the circling prior to linking up with the bombers (as Bullet suggests)

After take-off, hit Shift+W as required to skip the circling, then Warp

You'll end up ahead and above the bombers

A Flight will be lost way behind though

[Olham 164]

Oh, I see - didn't try that - thanks, Bullethead and Duce!