OT: violence in video games

[rabu 9]

There are a lot of good points being made here, for and against gore, mostly for, it seems.

 

What's interesting is, I suddenly remembered a long time ago, back in the RedBaron Delphi forum days, back in the early 90's. I distinctly remember a post by some one who suggested having blood spatter on the wind screen as a desired addition to RedBaron. The back lash against this poor guy was a unanimous NO.. it was sort of an insulting and demeaning NO as well. Sort of like saying, we don't want any cheap arcade stuff in our "serious" sim. Even though, to be authentic, it probably would have been accurate to have blood spatters and other gore end up in ones face. I think that what is most interesting is that in the last 20 years the opinion seems to have shifted away from such an attitude, and now it seem there is just the opposite; now there is this unanimous support and even joking about gore and blood and the shoe seems to be on the other foot. So what has happened, have we been slowly weaned on gore over the years to accept it with out wincing or feeling anything is disturbing?

 

I'm in no way putting any one down, it's just that I still feel, deep in side that something is not right here. When I first saw Pulp Fiction in 94', my wife and I walked out of the theater at the car scene where the guy is shot in the face and it is made to seem funny. I saw the movie again several months ago on TV and it didn't seem as bad as I had remembered, I was able to watch the whole movie.. what does this say, anything at all? I really don't know, except that the more we support this stuff the more it sells . But maybe I'm just over reacting..

[Bullethead 12]

What's interesting is, I suddenly remembered a long time ago, back in the RedBaron Delphi forum days, back in the early 90's. I distinctly remember a post by some one who suggested having blood spatter on the wind screen as a desired addition to RedBaron. The back lash against this poor guy was a unanimous NO.. it was sort of an insulting and demeaning NO as well.

 

I think that person was me . But of course, in those days I was just back from Desert Storm, was completely out of my head, and was always asking Kesmai to put refugee columns in Air Warrior so I could drop napalm on them. I think folks on Delphi knew my habits so were predisposed to slap me back to reality. I took no offense from it.

 

Buit HiTech did get the key point I was making, or had reached it himself already. That is, if the game has pilot wounds that have a significant effect during flight, gamers need something to tell them "DAMN THAT HURT!" I mean, there's no other way to provide feedback for being shot. IMHO, that's why he put blood splattering in Aces High.

 

And just for the record, my opinion about gore in games hasn't ever changed. If it provides important information to the player, or increases immersion, then it's good. If it's just for shock value, then it's just a waste of CPU and GPU. I've been surrounded by gore most of my life so I already know very well what it really looks like, It can't shock me and when taken over the top for shock's sake, then it ruins the game because it looks fake to me from seeing so much of the real thing.

[Hellshade 110]

"Does a game have to stress gore and shove it in your face to be effective? Should we have blood splatter on the wind screen along with brains in order to have a better time with OFF?"

 

Well now, maybe that's what the Workshop options are for.

 

Actually I suppose if there was going to be something else added to the cockpit to make the game more immersive, I'd say the ability to salute a foe as their plane went down would be awesome. Not asking for it in P4. I'm sure there are a hell of a lot more useful things the Devs could spend their time on to make the game better, but that would be sort of cool. Especially if the AI pilots would occassionally salute foes they defeated as well. Think of the screenshots and videos...

 

Well, maybe for P12.

 

Hellshade

[Bullethead 12]

Actually I suppose if there was going to be something else added to the cockpit to make the game more immersive, I'd say the ability to salute a foe as their plane went down would be awesome

 

If they're going to do that, I'd also like the ability to moon the foe as I go down

[Hellshade 110]

If they're going to do that, I'd also like the ability to moon the foe as I go down

 

Maybe we could compromise and get a single finger salute? I'm sure it happened, historically speaking.

 

Hellshade

[rabu 9]

Carefull guy.. violence may be acceptable, but anything sexual is really treading on thin ice!

[Guest British_eh]

Hi there,

 

I try to monitor my son, whose latest is a zombie killing game, lots of blood and body parts.......

 

Hey, that gal is pretty...........handy with that weapon. Do you think I could borrow her for a fortnight, you know,...give her a few flying lessons, then take her up as my Wingman, er, Wingwoman? From what I saw she would be great at covering my ..........well, doing a fine job of protecting me. Not that Winder hasn't provided my with a great slew of Wingmen..............but

 

Cheers,

 

British_eh

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

I suppose if you are going to push for reality...then blood and guts is going to be part and parcel.

 

I wouldn't mind a bit more 'nastiness' personally....but it would be easy enough to turn it off and on in workshop

[Bullethead 12]

I suppose if you are going to push for reality...then blood and guts is going to be part and parcel.

 

I wouldn't mind a bit more 'nastiness' personally....but it would be easy enough to turn it off and on in workshop

 

I'd probably turn it way down .

 

The problem I have with gore in games isn't the gore itself. As we know, if the game strives for realism and involves inflicting terrible wounds, then blood and worse is expected. Also, the whole idea of shielding kids from it seems to be a product of the last century or so, when the majority of people became, for the 1st time in human history, separated from seeing such things on a regular basis. I don't think being around a lot of blood hurt our ancestors so I don't see how it would hurt folks today.

 

My problem with game gore is the implementation, which always looks fake to me, and that decreases my immersion and enjoyment of the game. I've seen countless horrific injuries over my life--I currently deal with them routinely as a fireman. As such, I've got a head full of memories, with which game scenes always clash. So in most games, I find it more enjoyable to turn the gore down to its minimum level, but not off completely. I find that cue of the small visible gore in the game triggers my mind to paint the scene with real gore taken from the memory of a similar injury.

[zoomzoom 2]

I think at least a cracked windscreen with some tastefull blood spatter as an injury notice would be quite appropo. I seldom can tell, even after an in-mission wounding, that I've even been hit, when in reality, you'd know right away!!! So yeah, a somewhat shocking in-flight heads up would be most realistic.

 

ZZ.

 

PS...Looking down and seeing an incendiary round burning itself out in my boot would be for the "High Graphical Realism" setting.

[Hellshade 110]

How about instead of graphical feedback in the cockpit, they added audio feedback instead to add to the immersion even more. If your plane gets hit, your pilot will say "Son of a..." (or some such variation of suprise/anger). If you get hit, of course, you scream. High stress turns will make your pilot grunt against the strain, etc. Optional "Pilot Sounds" able to be selected / deselected in Workshop, naturally. You'd probably want 4 different voice sets. One for each country. Can't be having the Huns yelling "Bloody Hell!" in an english accent when their planes get hit now, can we?

 

Hellshade

[UK_Widowmaker 571]

I vote Olham to do the German Voice Acting....that way, I will hear him curse each time I shoot a Hun down in my (hopefully coming) Sopwith Snipe!!

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Should be doable, since there is a "grunt" sound when you are wounded, or wound another pilot, in the game .

[Hellshade 110]

Should be doable, since there is a "grunt" sound when you are wounded, or wound another pilot, in the game .

 

I think that and other voice effects would add a lot of immersion to the game and would probably not be THAT difficult to add, but that it's also something that should be selectable as On or Off in the workshop. Also, you know how sometimes when the plane gets too badly damaged it just exits the mission? I think there should be a terrifying "death scream" as if one knows the end is about to come. That way it preps you a little bit that the end is near before everything goes to black.

 

Hellshade

[Hellshade 110]

I vote Olham to do the German Voice Acting....that way, I will hear him curse each time I shoot a Hun down in my (hopefully coming) Sopwith Snipe!!

 

Careful what you wish for. Olham would probably record a curse like "No bloody snipe for you, Tommy!" Just to be rude. He's mean like that, you know.

 

Hellshade

[rabu 9]

The old standby, having the screen go red has always worked pretty well, starting from back in the RedBaron days. I also remember having fun recording my own voice sound versions of hard G grunts, pilots being hit, etc.

[Creaghorn 10]

The old standby, having the screen go red has always worked pretty well, starting from back in the RedBaron days. I also remember having fun recording my own voice sound versions of hard G grunts, pilots being hit, etc.

 

yes. also tried that sort of things, but the cursing etc. i found out weren't necessary because i was cursing also in real

 

red out is a good thing. should also be in BHAH when beeing wounded. the more severe, the longer the red out phases, and the longer you fly wounded, the red out phases should increase to the point where it never get's out again and you lose control.

 

IMHO there should also be implemented when having a trail of smoke, the smoke should start in front of your face from the engine and your vision should get affected. in real when they made it down safely, they were as black as coalmine workers and happy they made it down. also a realistic reason to stop hunting to finish your kill instead of continueing shooting with yourself smoking.

 

also when having a leak from the petroltank. there should be the very probable possibility that after a while you explode or that instantly or after a while it ignites and fire breaks out. there is aviation gas dropping and leaking onto a hot running engine. in real they immediately and panically switched off the engine and went into a glide. not at all fighting and thinking, oh, it's only a small leak so i can fight for another 5 minutes and then i can land somewhere.

 

 

 

[carrick58 23]

yes. also tried that sort of things, but the cursing etc. i found out weren't necessary because i was cursing also in real

 

red out is a good thing. should also be in BHAH when beeing wounded. the more severe, the longer the red out phases, and the longer you fly wounded, the red out phases should increase to the point where it never get's out again and you lose control.

 

IMHO there should also be implemented when having a trail of smoke, the smoke should start in front of your face from the engine and your vision should get affected. in real when they made it down safely, they were as black as coalmine workers and happy they made it down. also a realistic reason to stop hunting to finish your kill instead of continueing shooting with yourself smoking.

 

also when having a leak from the petroltank. there should be the very probable possibility that after a while you explode or that instantly or after a while it ignites and fire breaks out. there is aviation gas dropping and leaking onto a hot running engine. in real they immediately and panically switched off the engine and went into a glide. not at all fighting and thinking, oh, it's only a small leak so i can fight for another 5 minutes and then i can land somewhere.

 

 

 

 

 

I agree about the smoke and chances of a crash because u cant see. The Gas leak ? Although I cant remember where I saw vid of a restored or reconstructed Vintage a/c with a gas leak, It was airborne and puking gas all over the pilots legs. He landed at ounce:heat: with the engine still ticking away.

[Creaghorn 10]

 

 

I agree about the smoke and chances of a crash because u cant see. The Gas leak ? Although I cant remember where I saw vid of a restored or reconstructed Vintage a/c with a gas leak, It was airborne and puking gas all over the pilots legs. He landed at ounce:heat: with the engine still ticking away.

 

if i remember correctly that was a Dr1 and he had some fuelleak. the engine or cockpit then even had some certain signs of ignition (as they showed in slomo) and he made an immediate landing in time.

[rabu 9]

yes. also tried that sort of things, but the cursing etc. i found out weren't necessary because i was cursing also in real

 

red out is a good thing. should also be in BHAH when beeing wounded. the more severe, the longer the red out phases, and the longer you fly wounded, the red out phases should increase to the point where it never get's out again and you lose control.

 

IMHO there should also be implemented when having a trail of smoke, the smoke should start in front of your face from the engine and your vision should get affected. in real when they made it down safely, they were as black as coalmine workers and happy they made it down. also a realistic reason to stop hunting to finish your kill instead of continueing shooting with yourself smoking.

 

also when having a leak from the petroltank. there should be the very probable possibility that after a while you explode or that instantly or after a while it ignites and fire breaks out. there is aviation gas dropping and leaking onto a hot running engine. in real they immediately and panically switched off the engine and went into a glide. not at all fighting and thinking, oh, it's only a small leak so i can fight for another 5 minutes and then i can land somewhere.

 

Good ideas, along with oil on your wind screen or face that starts blocking the view, then maybe a hot key that will wipe it away leaving smears but some vision?