Ollie North weighs in on Kerry

[firehawkordy 34]

My old Master Chief sent this to me, don't know how many have seen it, but here it is. Kind of long.

 

 

Bring it on, John

Oliver North

 

 

 

August 27, 2004

 

 

"Of course, the president keeps telling people he would never question my

service to our country. Instead, he watches as a Republican-funded attack

group does just that. Well, if he wants to have a debate about our service

in Vietnam, here is my answer: 'Bring it on.'" -- Sen. John Kerry

 

 

Dear John,

 

As usual, you have it wrong. You don't have a beef with President George

Bush about your war record. He's been exceedingly generous about your

military service. Your complaint is with the 2.5 million of us who served

honorably in a war that ended 29 years ago and which you, not the president,

made the centerpiece of this campaign.

 

I talk to a lot of vets, John, and this really isn't about your medals or

how you got them. Like you, I have a Silver Star and a Bronze Star. I only

have two Purple Hearts, though. I turned down the others so that I could

stay with the Marines in my rifle platoon. But I think you might agree with

me, though I've never heard you say it, that the officers always got more

medals than they earned and the youngsters we led never got as many medals

as they deserved.

 

This really isn't about how early you came home from that war, either,

John. There have always been guys in every war who want to go home. There

are also lots of guys, like those in my rifle platoon in Vietnam, who did a

full 13 months in the field. And there are, thankfully, lots of young

Americans today in Iraq and Afghanistan who volunteered to return to war

because, as one of them told me in Ramadi a few weeks ago, "the job isn't

finished."

 

Nor is this about whether you were in Cambodia on Christmas Eve, 1968. Heck

John, people get lost going on vacation. If you got lost, just say so. Your

campaign has admitted that you now know that you really weren't in Cambodia

that night and that Richard Nixon wasn't really president when you thought

he was. Now would be a good time to explain to us how you could have all

that bogus stuff "seared" into your memory -- especially since you want to

have your finger on our nation's nuclear trigger.

 

But that's not really the problem, either. The trouble you're having, John,

isn't about your medals or coming home early or getting lost -- or even

Richard Nixon. The issue is what you did to us when you came home, John.

 

When you got home, you co-founded Vietnam Veterans Against the War and

wrote "The New Soldier," which denounced those of us who served -- and were

still serving -- on the battlefields of a thankless war. Worst of all, John,

you then accused me -- and all of us who served in Vietnam -- of committing

terrible crimes and atrocities.

 

On April 22, 1971, under oath, you told the Senate Foreign Relations

Committee that you had knowledge that American troops "had personally raped,

cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human

genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly

shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan,

shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged

the country side of South Vietnam." And you admitted on television that

"yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other

soldiers have committed."

 

And for good measure you stated, "(America is) more guilty than any other

body, of violations of (the) Geneva Conventions ... the torture of

prisoners, the killing of prisoners."

 

Your "antiwar" statements and activities were painful for those of us

carrying the scars of Vietnam and trying to move on with our lives. And for

those who were still there, it was even more hurtful. But those who suffered

the most from what you said and did were the hundreds of American prisoners

of war being held by Hanoi. Here's what some of them endured because of you,

John:

 

Capt. James Warner had already spent four years in Vietnamese custody when

he was handed a copy of your testimony by his captors. Warner says that for

his captors, your statements "were proof I deserved to be punished." He

wasn't released until March 14, 1973.

 

Maj. Kenneth Cordier, an Air Force pilot who was in Vietnamese custody for

2,284 days, says his captors "repeated incessantly" your one-liner about

being "the last man to die" for a lost cause. Cordier was released March 4,

1973.

 

Navy Lt. Paul Galanti says your accusations "were as demoralizing as

solitary (confinement) ... and a prime reason the war dragged on." He

remained in North Vietnamese hands until February 12, 1973.

 

John, did you think they would forget? When Tim Russert asked about your

claim that you and others in Vietnam committed "atrocities," instead of

standing by your sworn testimony, you confessed that your words "were a bit

over the top." Does that mean you lied under oath? Or does it mean you are a

war criminal? You can't have this one both ways, John. Either way, you're

not fit to be a prison guard at Abu Ghraib, much less commander in chief.

 

One last thing, John. In 1988, Jane Fonda said: "I would like to say

something ... to men who were in Vietnam, who I hurt, or whose pain I caused

to deepen because of things that I said or did. I was trying to help end the

killing and the war, but there were times when I was thoughtless and

careless about it and I'm ... very sorry that I hurt them. And I want to

apologize to them and their families."

 

Even Jane Fonda apologized. Will you, John?

[Foofighter 0]

And where was George W. during Vietnam? Or did everyone here have a memory lapse?!!! :D :D :D

 

Foo.

[Beer 0]

Go Ollie, well said.

 

Cheers

Beer

[Scout_51 0]

And where was George W. during Vietnam?  Or did everyone here have a memory lapse?!!! :D  :D  :D

 

Foo.

Memory Lapse? Time for REALITY Checks..MR BUSH Had done what MANY others had done,he joined the national guard,just in case you are not aware of this,MANY units of the guard DID serve in vietnam(actually one of the most decorated units for combat WAS a National Guard unit),just a reminder..where was what I sense is a fav of yours billy clinton?...This is NOT about george bush,he has NEVER ran on his military service,period ..the dems to INCLUDE john kerry said 12/14 yrs back that military service was NOT a requirement to being President(and its NOT) what changed since then?..kerry has MADE his service the center piece of his campaign,so therefore it IS open to scrutiny,and last but not least,he DIRECTLY by his words and acts caused HARM to be brought upon Americans,in other times that WAS aid and comfort among other things...before Anything else is said..Im a TWO tour Nam Vet,was there 1969/70 and 71/72..again,George Bush NEVER made his service a campaign thing,Before you mention the awol thinggy,it is NOT uncommon in the guard to take leaves of absences,the only requirement is that time has to be made up afterwards,Mr Bush DID that,so much for the 'awol' thing..

[Scout_51 0]

Even Jane Fonda apologized. Will you, John?

Very informative,except I had to reply on one thing....when hanoi jane said those things a Viet Vet put it rather well and bluntly..he said/asked 'how many oscars has jane been put up for'?.......

[Growler67 0]

Very informative,except I had to reply on one thing....when hanoi jane said those things a Viet Vet put it rather well and bluntly..he said/asked 'how many oscars has jane been put up for'?.......

That 'may' have more to do with her prowess as an actor (or lack there of). Make no mistake, I do not support Ms. Fonda or her views.

 

And while I respect the fact that both candidates served our nation, I feel it is very dissappointing that we still (Americans in general) treat the elections like a high school popularity contests. What really matters are the facts of what they intend to do if elected. What are their primary focus platform issues for the next 4 years? I don't care much for the pep rally speeches (as they are politicians and it is their job to tell people what they most want to hear), I want to know what their plan is. Not that they have a plan. I want details. Anyone can say they have a plan for doing this, that or the other, but what IS this plan and HOW do you hope to accomplish it?

 

Until the American VOTING public decides they no longer wish to be sheep, things will not change for the better.

[Foofighter 0]

Hey Scout,

Memory Lapse? Time for REALITY Checks..MR BUSH Had done what MANY others had done,he joined the national guard,just in case you are not aware of this,MANY units of the guard DID serve in vietnam(actually one of the most decorated units for combat WAS a National Guard unit),just a reminder..where was what I sense is a fav of yours billy clinton?...This is NOT about george bush,he has NEVER ran on his military service,period ..the dems to INCLUDE john kerry said 12/14 yrs back that military service was NOT a requirement to being President(and its NOT) what changed since then?..kerry has MADE his service the center piece of his campaign,so therefore it IS open to scrutiny,and last but not least,he DIRECTLY by his words and acts caused HARM to be brought upon Americans,in other times that WAS aid and comfort among other things...before Anything else is said..Im a TWO tour Nam Vet,was there 1969/70 and 71/72..again,George Bush NEVER made his service a campaign thing,Before you mention the awol thinggy,it is NOT uncommon in the guard to take leaves of absences,the only requirement is that time has to be made up afterwards,Mr Bush DID that,so much for the 'awol' thing..

 

Kerry hasn't made his service the center piece of his campaign, Swiftboats brought it up to try to use it against him. I know many guard units served.

Kerry WAS OVER THERE, Bush wasn't. That's the reality check.

 

Foo

[+Fates 63]

Foo,

 

Kerry brought out swiftboat vets and displayed them on stage.

Kerry saluted the Dem convention, and said "Reporting for Duty"

much of Kerry's acceptance speech involved his service to his country.

 

 

I personally fail to see how he did not make his service part of his campaign....maybe not the centerpiece...but he opened the doors of scrutiny.

 

I don't personally agree with Bush not serving overseas, and I view it more like a father trying to protect his son. However, he did serve.

 

ps.... There's a whole lot of other commanders that weren't over their either.

[Foofighter 0]

Hey Fates,

I just feel that it's been a little unfair to Kerry that all the scrutiny is being focused on him when he was over there in the heat, under fire, etc. while Bush was comfortably back in the states. And that more focus has been Kerry's service while we haven't heard anything at all lately about Bush's service.

 

I do agree with McCain, both sides should quit harping on this but if I see it creep up in a post I feel a need to "even the field" a little bit.

 

BTW,

I know that a lot of people around here don't care for me too much because I will speak my mind, but what's the alternative? Fortunately I've been sober lately so its been a bit more "civil" and a lot more "focused". I haven't been kicked off in a while ;) so it can't be that bad. Just remember I love A/C and flight sims and I like most the people on this site. I once asked to be removed and then came back and people have been fairly nice to me even after that. Some have backed off from me and I respect that too. A lot of political posts have been going up lately and if you notice I am usually not the topic starter, but after I read some of the posts I just feel that I should be able to disagree just because I am concerned about the financial future of the country as a result of what we're doing. That's all. If I didn't care about the country would I be wasting my time with this? I work 40 hours a week and so you can probably appreciate the amount of my free time this has taken up. Because I disagree a lot politically with people on the site I can pretty much tell where I stand on the site. It puts me "out of "the click"" so I guess it makes me a little less welcome. But I won't change my views just to fit in but I like the site and still respect the people here although I might disagree with them politically. I just wish that I would be treated under the same circumstances, that's all. I posted a question for some advice about my cougar and possibly replacing it and no one responded. That's ok too, I'll keep showing up and if I can help someone I will and if I need help I'll still ask.

 

Thanks,

Foo

[PG_Raptor 0]

Hey Foo, I don't know about the other guys, but I'm glad you are at least a little vocal about your views. Personally, Bush annoys me, but I like Kerry and his views even less. When you post, to me, its a welcome different view. Sometimes all the Bush praising can get old :D

[navychief 1]

"Kerry hasn't made his service the center piece of his campaign"

 

Uh, I beg to disagree. As Fates remarked, Kerry saluted the convention with his, "reporting for duty".

 

John ("Have I told you I was in Vietnam?") Kerry

 

And all this talk about Bush not serving his country, while Kerry went to Vietnam. You know, I bet all the folks who served in the various National Guard units would take issue with the comparison. Somewhat of a slap in the face to them, wouldn't you say?

 

Foofighter, I definitely understand your wanting to express your political views. I sure do, as if you didn't notice! Heh, heh.

 

By the way, President Bush definitely hit a "home run" last night in his speech. Go GW!!

 

And I DO LOVE flight simming!!

 

Although, what with this move to Tennessee going on later this month, I won't be doing much of that. And I probably won't be able to afford my DSL connection for a while, 'cause I will be carrying two mortgage payments until my house sells. Ouch.

 

Navy Chief

[Scout_51 0]

disagree a lot politically with people on the site I can pretty much tell where I stand on the site. It puts me "out of "the click"" so I guess it makes me a little less welcome. But I won't change my views just to fit in but I like the site and still respect the people here although I might disagree with them politically. I just wish that I would be treated under the same circumstances

Foo,you are NOT unwelcome,nor do you need be part of a clique,actually if THERE WAS a clique I would be the first to say it.....those of us that actually spent time in the bush,time in the rice paddies,getting soaked with agent orange and etc as our father who hit normandy,their fathers who went into the argone forrest are the VERY first to say theres NOTHING wrong with FREEDOM of speech..myself I might get blunt at times,but trust me it IS not personal,never has or will

[Scout_51 0]

don't personally agree with Bush not serving overseas, and I view it more like a father trying to protect his son. However, he did serve.

 

ps.... There's a whole lot of other commanders that weren't over their either.

I respect that Fates,least you can see both sides of this big issue facing us...bush didn't do anything that was not a common practice.

[Scout_51 0]

Kerry hasn't made his service the center piece of his campaign, Swiftboats brought it up to try to use it against him. I know many guard units served.

Kerry WAS OVER THERE, Bush wasn't. That's the reality check.

you cherry picked what was convinient,nice move.....kerry HAS made his service part of the campaign,he DID open the door...you also missed one big reason the boat vets came out,it is one thing to be a liberal senator from mass,its one thing to vote against the good guys more than a few times..it IS another thing to vote to send them into combat then the candiate and his running mate both vote Against additional funds to procure needed Life saving equipment...then there is the rather well documented actions of this person upon returning from a little 3 1/2 month tour that DID cause harm to fellow Americans,not to mention he alianated a whole bunch of decent draftees that did their job alongside the regulars by the things he said..somehow I have NEVER felt like a baby killer or a rider in genghis khans horde.....

 

ps Mr Bush NEVER said he went,nor claim he is a hero..A Real Hero does NOT beat you over the head with the fact,he or she KNOWS they are and thats good enough for them

[+Fates 63]

Is it just me or is there no Edwards bashing going on? I feel as though if the table was turned and it was a Edwards-Kerry ticket, the republican party my be in some deeper water...

 

<C>

Fates

[Scout_51 0]

Is it just me or is there no Edwards bashing going on?  I feel as though if the table was turned and it was a Edwards-Kerry ticket, the republican party my be in some deeper water...

 

<C>

Fates

his day is coming,specially after kerry blasted cheney last night..edwards is from that age where he was not of draft age,so that gives him some cover lol....he is not within radar range only because there's a much bigger target...actually on the reps being in deeper water,nahh....

[Vegasbob 0]

I honestly don't care what Kerry did in Vietnam. It is fact that he was there and anyone that set foot in that hellhole deserves medals. I thank all veterans for their service. The issues in this campaign are what are going on at home. The goal of the war on terror should be preventing terror attacks from happening here at home. I went to Tijuana Mexico two weeks ago and the only security check I was given was a two-second glance at my Drivers license and an x-ray of my stuff. Any Middle eastern terrorist could walk across the border with a fake Id and not even be asked a question. We need fences with sentry posts and armed men prepared to shoot anyone making a run at the border. We certainly need to have further background checks at the border checkpoints. All of us are unprotected from terror attacks at this moment. Most of the national guard units are deployed in Iraq right now so we are extremely vulnurable.

 

The other thing that the Bush supporters are touting is his aggressive stance toward North Korea and Iran as well as Iraq previously. As the President said, the war on terror is not winnable. That is true with the half-assed pussy way he has gone about it. Think about it, how do you win a war? You kill more of them than they kill of us. They have killed around 4,000 total including the 9/11 attacks. how many of them have we killed? 500? maybe 2,000 total. They are winning my friends. You may ask my solution to the problem. There are no "popular" solutions to the problem. You have two options. Option number 1: Annihilate the entire middle east as well as exterminate all people of middle eastern descent in other countries around the world. The enemy muslims dress just like the friendly muslims so how can you be sure. Option number 2: Completely withdraw from the rest of the world. Pull all troops and financial aid from other nations......including Israel. Why do you think Canada is never threatened by anyone? They stay neutral. I would be willing to bet that if we exercised option number two, we would not experience another terrorist attack on our nation.

 

So who do we vote for? Not an easy choice. Neither candidate will support my position in the war on terror. I will vote on what affects me the most and that is what happens here. I don't support a president that is willing to force freedoms on other nations and take away my freedoms here. This A-hole we have in office now doesn't want to allow me to listen to what I want, watch what I want, or believe what I want. He makes decisions based upon what his RELIGION and his GOD tells him to decide. The Taliban did the same thing in Afganistan. We have some veterans on this forum here and it's a shame that your president would like to take away freedoms that your brothers died for. That is what will motivate my decision to vote for John Kerry. Kerry testified on veteran's behalf to motivate the government to bring you guys home. He had to say a lot of horrible things for that to happen. The next generation of veterans are being used in Iraq right now for selfish purposes. They are guarding Dick Cheney's oil. They are dying for a guy that recieved five service deferments to avoid going to Vietnam.

 

 

Long enough for everyone? Hopefully you enjoy reading it.

[SniprKlr 0]

YOU GUYS HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!! Bush is commander and chief on war in Iraq and terrorism and hes never seen combat! I donno about you but I would rather see a vietnam vet who has 3 purple hearts or atleast 1 single round fired in his direction than some pencil pusher that sat in an office no less.. Kerry has far more war experience. Kerry wouldnt lie just to go after sadam quote by bush "I didnt ask my father for advice I looked to a higher power for advice" Warning quote may not be exact..THe fact he used religion to define his means and excuses to go to war in Iraq is scarry enough and not let alone the lie of weapons of mass destruction. You harp on Kerry about making his carreer a center stage! Hell what is bush harping on? Terrorism..note Iraq never comes up..as his center stage..You act like a man with REAL millitary and COMBAT experience couldnt defend us any better? OMG you people really dont follow common sense!

 

the Economic state of the US.. What a horses ass joke this is.. Being run by an oil for the rich puppet..Bush failed in 3 business ventures of his own! He has no Idea about how to run the economy! He has people telling him how and it is still the pits! My god look at our national dept! War in Iraq alone is killing us economically..Instead of pumping money into un called for wars and killing our service men perhaps he should use that money and put it into the economy or how about our school systems other than religious voucher schools for the rich? And that tax break is a joke! Nice to see the rich getting more money.

 

Last but not least. How about that Socialist religious Idiology of banning gay marriage.. If your country does such a thing to single out a group of ppl just because they dont like them..this is no longer America..Especially if he tries to put it into the constitution.. Bush has no respect for the constitution as He blurrs the boundries of seperation of church and state and proposing ammending it with such anti semetic bands against gay and lesbians.. Btw Im straight.

[Scout_51 0]

Kerry testified on veteran's behalf to motivate the government to bring you guys home. He had to say a lot of horrible things for that to happen. The next generation of veterans are being used in Iraq right now for selfish purposes. They are guarding Dick Cheney's oil. They are dying for a guy that recieved five service deferments to avoid going to Vietnam.

No,he testified to further his chances at political office..the only thing he did and it IS documented is aid the enemy,a viet gen wrote in a book that when he started talking that they knew all they had to do was stand pat..myself I never felt like I was in any kind of 'horde',nor do I remember cutting heads..if we fighting for oil we fighting in the wrong place,we ought have invaded la and control the refineries that have the gas in calif at way over 2.15 a gal..deferments like the one howard dean got and ADMITTED in a interview it was for a 'bad' back then he went skiing for 6 months? Im not saying chenney is right,nor that what he did was wrong,he did what a LOT of folks did in those days,no more no less..

[SniprKlr 0]

Btw on Kerrys voting history of issues in question.. How many of you know about pork spending and how its attatched? THe most important issues that face us today are attached to very questionable and ethically wrong bills and spending habbits. THey use thise pork attachments in order to force things they want! So if a canidate votes no against lets say tax cuts for the poor becuase they attach a 7billion dollar fund for lets say millitary expense they can use that against the canidate in an election and get away with it.. So if you see such adds I sujest you look into what was really voted on..

 

Also the swift boats for truth..Man they really killed their reputation! What a bunch of political crap they are full of.. They destroyed all they stood for in the past! To attack Kerry on something they couldnt even prove! THis was an obvious play in politics for bush..If you dont believe that you really need some help in common sense. Although I dont like everything Kerry stands for..I think hes the lesser of 2 evils.

 

Im neither a demmocrat fanatic or a repulican groupie.. PPl need to stop voting on what better suites their selfesh political party dedications and think about the country as a whole.

[Scout_51 0]

YOU GUYS HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!! Bush is commander and chief on war in Iraq and terrorism and hes never seen combat! I donno about you but I would rather see a vietnam vet who has 3 purple hearts or atleast 1 single round fired in his direction than some pencil pusher that sat in an office no less.. Kerry has far more war experience. Kerry wouldnt lie just to go after sadam quote by bush "I didnt ask my father for advice I looked to a higher power for advice" Warning quote may not be exact..THe fact he used religion to define his means and excuses to go to war in Iraq is scarry enough and not let alone the lie of weapons of mass destruction. You harp on Kerry about making his carreer a center stage! Hell what is bush harping on? Terrorism..note Iraq never comes up..as his center stage..You act like a man with REAL millitary and COMBAT experience couldnt defend us any better? OMG you people really dont follow common sense!

Neither Did Franklin Roosevelt.as for those purple hearts,even his OWN PEOPLE are accepting that the 1st one was from a stray thumper round that kicked back fragments,in other words he shot himself,I dont think thats very heroic...bush did not see combat,that IS accepted...kerry had 3 1/2 months in a little boat in a little river in a country that no longer exists(due in part to him) bush has had over 3 yrs as commander in chief..this is no time for ojt,no matter how much you dont like the man...kerry would not lie..like being in cambodia?...bush prays,so?the decision was made on intelligence(the same agency kerry voted to cut off funds for many times),it was made on other countries intelligence,if he prayed before sending folks to fight I dont see a thing wrong with it,Im VERY possitive MANY of the folks goin in harms way ALSO prayed.......weapons of mass destruction,well the 3 biggest weapons of mass destruction have been accvounted for,two are dead and their daddy is in jail,we all know weapons dont fire themselves,right? someone has to give the order or pull a trigger...no,in my case I harp about if he makes his carrer a center stage then it IS wide open to scrutiny...we have so far only talked about the war,we have not talked about 20yrs of voting against just about everything,up to and INCLUDING Right now not voting to provide troopers with needed armor upgrades..Im not 'acting' I KNOW kerry can NOT do the job,period...common sense,that goes with Plain talking right? think bout it

[Scout_51 0]

..Bush failed in 3 business ventures of his own! He has no Idea about how to run the economy!

as opposed to marrying a rich widow?

[Vegasbob 0]

I believe that John Kerry did the right thing to testify against the Vietnam war. I also believe he should appologize to veterans for some of the remarks he made about soldiers commiting war crimes. I understand the logic behind it however. In order to get the governments attention, you have to shock them. The war crimes he reported were documented in reports and it has been a long known fact that they did indeed occur. I don't blame the vets for it. They were sent to Vietnam to die for a war not worth fighting for. It was a war that could not be won no matter how many troops were sent, bombs dropped or enemy killed. We are right in the middle of the same type of war in Iraq. The enemy is not seen until a bomb explodes killing soldiers and destroying tanks.

 

On the question of oil and gas refineries in Cali. :

 

It is Bush's policy of de-regulation and Cheney's energy policies that have given oil company's record profits. I saw a report on Exxon and how they have made record profits every year bush has been in office.

 

 

Sniprkilr:

 

Thanks for mentioning Kerry's voting record. Any senator that does not reverse their positions on certain bills before they are voted on should be recalled imediately. It means that they are not reading the bills they are voting for and they are not thinking about their constituents. I'm glad John Kerry is a flip flopper. It means that he is a man of thought and intelligence. He will not jump into a decision blindly without forethought as our current president does on a daily basis

[SniprKlr 0]

Again for cheny even to give war advice and terrorism advice is a joke.. Cheny doesnt know jack about being in the line of fire! For him to sit there and say he knows is an obvious lie. If he cant be honest with such issues I really dont trust him..Not to mention his corporate fraud..Him and bush run this country like Enron.

[Scout_51 0]

Instead of pumping money into un called for wars and killing our service men perhaps he should use that money and put it into the economy or how about our school systems

or how about using LESS on welfare programs and having folks work for the money...?