SA-2, Spoon Rest & Fansong

[Fuza]

stupid question but just want to know if the combo tracks multiple targets. if I am in a flight of 2 or 4 aircrafts, does 1 SA-2 site which has 6 SA-2 launchers and 1 combo of Sppon Rest and Fansong shoot at me and my wingmen AT THE SAME TIME?

 

 

[Fubar512]

The SA-2 system can only acquire, and guide missiles to, one target at a time. In game (as in and real life), one Fansong radar can provide guidance to the missiles from an adjacent site.

 

The Spoon rest (and other EW radars) really does nothing in game, other than act as a target for ARMs.

Edited December 12, 2010 by Fubar512

[Fuza]

The SA-2 system can only acquire, and guide missiles to, one target at a time. In game (as in and real life), one Fansong radar can provide guidance to the missiles from an adjacent site.

 

The Spoon rest (and other EW radars) really does nothing in game, other than act as a target for ARMs.

 

 

set up a new target area for the SA-2, basically it's a duplicate of Area028's SA-2 site and I just put a new X,Y coordinates. thus i have

 

[TargetArea074]

Name=Classified Area #066-74

Position=470528.00,317652.00

Radius=15000

ActiveYear=0

Location=2

Alignment=ENEMY

Target[001].Type=SAMRadar

Target[001].Offset=-14469.00,-5484.00

Target[001].Heading=45

Target[001].ActiveYear=1965

Target[002].Type=SAMLauncher

Target[002].Offset=-14569.00,-5309.00

Target[002].Heading=330

Target[002].ActiveYear=1965

Target[003].Type=SAMLauncher

Target[003].Offset=-14369.00,-5309.00

Target[003].Heading=30

Target[003].ActiveYear=1965

Target[004].Type=SAMLauncher

Target[004].Offset=-14269.00,-5484.00

Target[004].Heading=90

Target[004].ActiveYear=1965

Target[005].Type=SAMLauncher

Target[005].Offset=-14669.00,-5484.00

Target[005].Heading=270

Target[005].ActiveYear=1965

Target[006].Type=SAMLauncher

Target[006].Offset=-14369.00,-5659.00

Target[006].Heading=150

Target[006].ActiveYear=1965

Target[007].Type=SAMLauncher

Target[007].Offset=-14569.00,-5659.00

Target[007].Heading=210

Target[007].ActiveYear=1965

Target[008].Type=EWR

Target[008].Offser=-14519.00,-5454.00

Target[008].Heading=225

Target[008].ActiveYear=1965

 

The first attempt didn't have Target[008] the EWR. thought tthat would push the perimeter frward as I fly closer. So an EWR doesn't help to engage at a greater distance?

[Wrench]

target area 028 on WHAT map? one of the stock ones? GermanyCE most likely, or VietnamSEA. They're all incorrect.

 

doncha think that's a little bit spread out???

you've got launchers are 14000 x 5400 meters from the non-existent 0,0 point.

That ain't how they were set up ... trust me on this. The word we're looking for is "battery"

 

Perhaps a look through the Libya (or ANW or ASW or SoCal or Darwin or, or, or...) targets ini will show you how it's done right? Also, a quick Google will show some reallly nice photo-recce views of what an SA2 battery really looked like; judge distance from the "known" size of the Fansong and Guideline launchers.

 

wrench

kevin stein

Edited December 13, 2010 by Wrench

[Fuza]

Sire!

It is the Desert Map stock! Latest patch applied.

 

I extracted Target Area 028 Target 7 thru 14.

 

It works admirably, but you have to use the latest Weapon Editor to "Save" once I believe that action creates a Weapon.DAT file.

 

The mission file is here

 

[MissionHeader]

AircraftType=A-4F

MissionMap=desert

MissionType=CAP

StartDate=06/18/1968

StartTime=09:00

 

[Weather]

WeatherType=CLEAR

WeatherAlt=4000.0

WeatherThickness=500.0

HasHighLayer=False

HighLayerAlt=8000

FogAmount=0.6

ContrailAlt=8000

StartWindSpeed=17.57222

WindGustingAmount=25.57222

 

[MissionData]

FriendlyAirActivity=1

EnemyAirActivity=1

FriendlyAirDefenseActivity=3

EnemyAirDefenseActivity=3

PlayerMissionID=1

PlayerPositionID=1

MissionNumber=1

AdjustStartPosition=FALSE

AdjustBaseWaypoint=FALSE

 

[AircraftMission001]

AircraftType=A-4F

Name=Showtime

FormationType=USFighter

Texture=

Squadron=-1

AircraftNumber=265

Size=2

RandomChance=100

MissionType=CAP

CarrierBased=FALSE

ObjectiveID=0

RatingForSuccess=50

StartOnGround=FALSE

Position=614728,326281,4998.85

StartTime=0

Heading=

Speed=229.33

Alignment=FRIENDLY

AmmoPercent=100

FuelPercent=100

Loadout=Recon

TracerMixRatio=50

PilotTrainingStandard=EXCELLENT

TargetArea=

Nation=USAF

Waypoint[01].Position=456004,312074,4998.85

Waypoint[01].Speed=229.33

Waypoint[01].Size=200

Waypoint[01].Command=WAYPOINT

Waypoint[01].Objective=FALSE

Waypoint[02].Position=451261,307179,4998.85

Waypoint[02].Speed=229.33

Waypoint[02].Size=200

Waypoint[02].Command=WAYPOINT

Waypoint[02].Objective=FALSE

Waypoint[03].Position=456331,302734,4998.85

Waypoint[03].Speed=229.33

Waypoint[03].Size=200

Waypoint[03].Command=WAYPOINT

Waypoint[03].Objective=FALSE

 

I am happy, coz I am getting closer to closer to my dreamed scenario. My ultimate goal is to simulate a environment where I will be riding my beloved MiG-19 preferably or MiG-21 up against some great dogfighters F-86. The trouble was I have to choose a appropriate SAM battery for the era. Could you possibly remind me what Allied battery were used during that MiG Alley era?

 

WWoooo! I am getting a hard on.

 

Currently doing a SA-3 extraction to replace the SA-2 in the theatre, this is an experiement. The SA-3 fires like crazy. I used the same mission, flight starts at Galzad, as you know there is a SA-2 site but becoz I replaced it with SA-3 (throw away all the SA-2 in the ground object folder @_@)! also throw away the fansong. Instaed I extracted SA-3DL and Faltface and put those in the GroundObjects folder. I also extract the SA-3 from Bunyap weapon pack and merged with the stock WEAPON.INI file. Something wrong in this extraction process, the SA-3 does not have skin!

 

Also the original Flatface reads like this:

 

[DetectSystem]

TargetType=AIR

RadarSearchTime=5.0

RadarSearchRange=250000.0

RadarSearchStrength=80

RadarPosition=0.0,0.0,2.30

RadarMinimumRange=2500.0

RadarMinimumAlt=1000.0

DataLink=TRUE

OpticalSight=FALSE

MaxVisibleDistance=2000.0

RadarCrossSection=100

NetworkType=SA-3

 

I tried for hours why all those show up but the SA-3 never fired. Then I use FileCmpare to check aginst Fansong's DATA file. Some fo the Tracking para,eters are misssing.

I fictiously put in this and we have

 

[DetectSystem]

TargetType=AIR

RadarSearchTime=5.0

RadarSearchRange=250000.0

RadarSearchStrength=80

RadarTrackTime=10.0 <-----------------

RadarTrackRange=250000.0 <-----------------

RadarTrackStrength=80 <-----------------

RadarPosition=0.0,0.0,2.30

RadarMinimumRange=2500.0

RadarMaximumAlt=300000.0

RadarMinimumAlt=10.0

DataLink=TRUE

OpticalSight=FALSE

MaxVisibleDistance=2000.0

RadarCrossSection=100

NetworkType=SA-3

 

Now they fire like raiding party!!

 

But could you possibly supply me wit the historically correct Radar Track Time, Track Range and Track Strength. Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited December 13, 2010 by Fuza

[malibu43]

Again, as I asked before, what SA-3 are you using?

 

The latest available SA-3's (and necessary radars) included in NF4+ have accurate settings and provide quite a challenge. No editing required.

 

You are reinventing the wheel, here. There are SAM systems available for download that work just fine. No need to Frankenstein together some SAM ground objects using different pieces of different objects from different downloads created for different patch levels of the game. There are SAM target layouts in every terrain out there that will self populate with SAM's and provide a challenging experience.

 

If you can clearly and conceisely tell us what you're trying to accomplish (which is not currently clear to me) we can probably tell how to get it done with about 1/10th of the effort you are currently putting into it.

Edited December 13, 2010 by malibu43

[Fuza]

I downloaded the Pasko Desert Pak a couple of years back. The SA-3 comes out of that pak.

 

NF4+ is for SF2 isn't it? I haven't checked it yet becoz I'm using SF1, I don't own SF2 I wish I did though.

 

I must have missed a great lot then, there aren't as many standalone SAM available for download maybe in SF2 but not in SF1 as far as I know. I wish there were more though.

 

I don't want to mess up my clean install with other unwanted weapons and ground objects which I do not use for my own game.

 

Originally I wanted to make use of the mountainous area of the Desert map for some dogfight actions. As you might probably be through that before, fighting over a plain area is not equally challenging as fighting between hills, moutains and between troughs. I heavily rely on the F4 padlock view to track target, actually switching between F1 and F4 . It's easily hide yourself up if fly low, or the AI does the same when we are pretty much on the same ceiling.

 

But then just dogfighting and indulge into that turn competition could be boring at times, so I thought of some additional challenges from the ground. Pity that there are many terrains modded with SAM distributed around that part of the map. While I was working on the subject I incidentally discovered that there are in fact a lot of unknown facts about placing SAM and how SAM works actually I am never awared of. So my attentions was diverted to that direction and yes, effort is being put into that part given my limited knowledge about the game. But then I will learn in the process, it's called discovery process. Birthday is just days away, I wish I could accomplish a terrain which I can use for that purpose.

 

There are lot to get done, for example, if I use MiG-19/17 up agianst the Sabre F-86, which Allied SAM is historically correct? And is there a shorcut to make the map looks green though this is not a priority other than the correct SAM. I thought about the Vietnam Map from WoV which I also own but there isn't many mountains is it?

 

A great part of my work is out of curiosity which worth the time I say becoz I can learn the nuts and bolts of the game...

[Lexx_Luthor]

Fubar::

The Spoon rest (and other EW radars) really does nothing in game, other than act as a target for ARMs.

 

Interesting. I have never tested if an EW radar would attract attention in the game. Before SAMS, there was some thought towards ARMs for B-50 and B-47 for use against surveillance radars. The one I know about, 1953, potentially nuc armed:

 

Crossbow ~> http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/app1/gam-67.html

[Fubar512]

EW radars divert, and get destroyed by ARMs meant for SAM radars quite often in my experience. This is especially so in the VietnamSEA terrain.

[Fuza]

In Jane's F/A-18, GCI network would wake up SAM for inbound threat.

 

I've tried placing a Barlock 40 nm ahead of the SA-2 site. The Barlock never wakes up the Fansong.

 

So an EWR doesn't expand the threat radius of a SAM site.

 

If EWR doesn't work with AAA, then as you said EWR is really for shooting only!

[FrankD]

Sorry if that question is dumb or have been already asked (I searched for an answer first and didn't found it though), but does it worth to network the EWR with a given SAM system, are they then more useful than simple stats' inflater ?

[Fuza]

Sorry if that question is dumb or have been already asked (I searched for an answer first and didn't found it though), but does it worth to network the EWR with a given SAM system, are they then more useful than simple stats' inflater ?

 

I have tried that, but that's doesn't help at all. HOWEVER, if you place another Fansong to the original one as a ground object using a mission editor like KMD, you got locked on right away. I guess the strength is multiplied but whether the range is I am not quite sure and can't confirmed, perhaps you can test it and share us with your results.

 

*_*

[FrankD]

Hello Fuza,

 

thanks for your answer.

 

How is one supposed to test it? Are there tools and a methodology available? I saw mentioned an empty map, but one radar site, but I can't find the post nor I've been able to find such a terrain.