RAF_Louvert 101 Posted February 4, 2011 . Greetings All, Duke asked yesterday if it might be possible to have some historically based guidelines on what criteria to use when awarding one's self the new OFF P3 medals. I volunteered to take this on as I have had a fair amount of experience in the past creating such criteria. Here are the tables you can use if you wish to get closer to our RL counterparts in terms of just how many awards they might have been presented, and how often. Remember, most WWI pilots did not end up with more than two or three medals awarded to them for gallantry or actions "over and above" what was expected. Even most aces did not have many, with the exceptions being the handful of greats at the top. It should also be remembered that the British and US flyers recieved less on average than their French and German counterparts. So, with all that in mind, here are the tables outlining how you might wish to present awards to your pilots, with adjustments made for the higher number of kills achieved by most virtual pilots here, as well as for the different times of the War, and the different settings folks use when flying. Post any questions you might have on these, (and I am sure there will be some), and I will do my best to answer them. Cheers! Lou . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hasse Wind 46 Posted February 4, 2011 Wow Lou, amazing work! Have a virtual beer or two. What a nightmare it must for the devs to get all this right in the new and improved P4 awards system... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+elephant 36 Posted February 4, 2011 That's AMAZING! Thanks a million Lou! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RAF_Louvert 101 Posted February 5, 2011 . Many thanks Hasse Wind and Elephant, I hope these tables will prove useful to you Gents. To serve as examples with a bit more historic accuracy, here are a few pilot's page honors created using the new medals and guidelines, and displayed in their proper order of precedence. Awards of a German officer, (who was born in the Kingdom of Saxony), and began his military career on the Eastern Front serving with Turkish forces and where he was awarded the Turkish War Medal, before transfering to the Fliegertruppen and serving in the Flanders Region: Awards of a French officer serving with Belgian and British forces on the Western Front, who began his flying career in the enlisted ranks where he was awarded the Medaille Militaire, (French Military Medal), and the British Military Medal: Awards of a British RFC officer serving with French and Belgian forces on the Western Front, who began his flying career in the enlisted ranks where he was twice awarded the Military Medal: Awards of a British RNAS officer serving with French and Belgian forces in the Flanders region: Awards of an American officer serving with British, French, and Belgian forces on the Western Front: Keep in mind these would all be considered highly decorated aces by any Great War standard, even though several were not presented their respective nation's highest honors. Cheers! Lou . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DukeIronHand 8 Posted February 5, 2011 S! You are the man RAF_Louvert! Many thanks for your work on this - it is exactly what I had in mind. Have to work this weekend (stupid real life) but Monday I can't wait to fly and fight to earn some of these decorations. Again S! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hasse Wind 46 Posted February 5, 2011 Lou, as you seem to know so much about the awards of WW1, can you tell anything about how non-fighter pilots got their medals? Their job was not to shoot down aircraft but to take recon photos, direct artillery fire, bomb targets etc. etc. so the number of downed enemies wouldn't be the best method for gauging success. And yet the work they did was more important to the war effort than getting kills in the air - the fighters were there mainly to prevent enemy bomber and recon pilots from doing their jobs and of course to protect their own 'heavies'. I'm just wondering how to simulate this in OFF. Should I use the number of flight hours in two-seaters to decide when to get awards, or maybe give them after many successful bombing runs or something. Your improved medals inspired me to seriously think about this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RAF_Louvert 101 Posted February 5, 2011 . Duke, my pleasure to help out. Glad these are what you had in mind. Hasse Wind, as one who has flown many times over the years as a two-seater pilot in the WWI flight sims, I have pondered the best way to simulate the earning of awards by these unsung heros. Theirs was the critical job, and it was their presence in the skies that brought about the need for the fighter/scout pilots in the first place. Yet it was the dashing flyers of the speedy single-seaters who claimed the lion's share of the glory. A steadfast and successful B/R pilot would likely end up with no more than one or two awards for gallantry, despite having flown hundreds of recons, arty spots, and bombing runs. And the gunner/obs might well have more medals than the pilot flying him about. What I've settled on over the course of time for the B/R awards is to use successfully completed missions for the two-seaters in much the same way the sim uses confirmed kills for the fighters, (as you yourself suggested in your post). I don't have a formal structure put together for this as I've been going more by feel with the whole affair, but I might suggest you try using the above tables by simply taking the kill numbers for the latest period of the War and doubling the amounts, and let those new figures represent completed missions. So for instance, flying RSS as a British two-seater pilot, you would need to complete between 20 to 34 missions to be awarded your first gallantry medal. If you do happen to find yourself in a fight with enemy planes and send one or two down, well that's just icing on the cake and may garner you another citation. But your primary job as a B/R pilot is always to complete the mission. Also, by using the same figures for all periods of the conflict you will be simulating how it was considerably easier to do your job as a B/R pilot early in the War than it was as the skies became more and more populated with hostile craft. . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hasse Wind 46 Posted February 5, 2011 Thanks, Lou. That's some good advice. I'm currently flying a BE.2 in 1915 and have already completed quite a few missions, so this subject is very interesting for me now. It's much easier to find historical information about the fighter aces than any successful bomber pilots and observers. Definitely a bunch of unsung heroes. It's great that OFF gives us the opportunity to experience the air war also from their perspective. I can only hope bomber/recon careers will be even better in P4. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gaw 5 Posted February 6, 2011 Unbelievably fine detail on this stuff RAF...............thank you Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herr Prop-Wasche 7 Posted February 6, 2011 Absolutely a fantastic and phenomenal job on both the beautiful medals and the research on the criteria for awarding these baubles. Thank you, Lou! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hasse Wind 46 Posted February 6, 2011 Lou, maybe you could add these tables to your new medals pack so that the valuable information presented here won't be lost when these threads eventually disappear from the first page. I'm sure people who download your medals would greatly appreciate having this extremely useful information in the same package. Just a suggestion. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RAF_Louvert 101 Posted February 6, 2011 . Many thanks for the kind words Gaw and Herr Prop-Wasche, and you are more than welcome. I hope you Gents will be able to make good use of these. Hasse Wind, happy to help with your B/R pilot award ponderings. Let me know how you decide to go about awarding their medals and how it works out for you, and perhaps I can put togther a formal set of tables for our brave two-seater flyers as well. Also, a good idea about making these tables available to the folks downloading the new medals. I have added a link to this thread on the download page so that people can pop over here and grab these guidelines if they wish. Cheers! Lou . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Herr Prop-Wasche 7 Posted February 7, 2011 Thanks again. Lou! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Javito1986 14 Posted March 29, 2011 I'm trying to follow this chart accurately and have some questions! :) Is it all based on kill counts? It strikes me for example that if it was then no U.S. fliers would have gotten the CMH since nobody ever got more than Rickenbacker's 26? So for example in order for a US pilot to qualify for the big one under RSS he needs 55 - 65 confirmed and 5 shot down in a single day? How would you go about defining a "notable single day's performance" worthy of an early medal? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RAF_Louvert 101 Posted March 29, 2011 . Javito, remember that these numbers have been adjusted up from RL amounts to offset the fact that it is considerably easier to get kills in the sim. Also, since there were only four MOH's awarded in WWI to Army Air Service members, it should be nearly impossible to earn one. As to defining a notable single day's performance, that has been footnoted in the charts. But please remember, these are all only recommended general criteria. Enjoying the sim should still be your ultimate goal. . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Javito1986 14 Posted March 29, 2011 . Javito, remember that these numbers have been adjusted up from RL amounts to offset the fact that it is considerably easier to get kills in the sim. Also, since there were only four MOH's awarded in WWI to Army Air Service members, it should be nearly impossible to earn one. As to defining a notable single day's performance, that has been footnoted in the charts. But please remember, these are all only recommended general criteria. Enjoying the sim should still be your ultimate goal. . Gotcha. In that case I just gave myself a medal just for surviving my 80th mission, even though I don't have the requisite 30 kills for it. Only have 14 in fact ;-) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RAF_Louvert 101 Posted March 30, 2011 . There you go Javito. Just out of curiosity, what medal did the Adjutant recommend? . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Javito1986 14 Posted March 30, 2011 Military Cross W/ Bar. I gave myself the first Military Cross in-sim months ago when I first cracked the 10 kill mark. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Javito1986 14 Posted March 30, 2011 No worries Lou, I'm not gonna just hand Casey Joyce a Victory Cross on a whim :-p Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TimT1 0 Posted June 15, 2012 Hi, I'm a little fuzzy on the US awards, so could anyone tell me what the US awards would be from lowest to highest (Congressional Medal of Honor being the highest of course?) Thanks:) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
OlPaint01 0 Posted June 17, 2012 (edited) Lou I pointed Lothar to this thread discussing the New Medals Mod you put in Downloads Section. He got really excited about the idea of using your tables of rules that suggest award triggers for both a confirmed kill count for scout pilots and for a successfully completed mission count for 2-seater pilots/observers. I wonder if you would be amenable to us adapting your awards tables and other thoughts, for bundling with other Realism Mods for use in Lothar's OFFbase interface to JSGME Mod Manager. OlPaint Edited June 17, 2012 by OlPaint01 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NS13Jarhead 6 Posted June 18, 2012 (edited) . Javito, remember that these numbers have been adjusted up from RL amounts to offset the fact that it is considerably easier to get kills in the sim. Also, since there were only four MOH's awarded in WWI to Army Air Service members, it should be nearly impossible to earn one. As to defining a notable single day's performance, that has been footnoted in the charts. But please remember, these are all only recommended general criteria. Enjoying the sim should still be your ultimate goal. . I have to add that two U.S. Marine aviators received the Navy Medal of Honor. 1sLt Ralph Talbot (pilot) and Gunnery Sergeant Robert Robinson (gunner/observer). I believe that they awarded the Tiffany Cross version rather than the traditional Navy medal. http://en.wikipedia....ki/Ralph_Talbot http://en.wikipedia....ert_G._Robinson Edited June 18, 2012 by NS13Jarhead Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RAF_Louvert 101 Posted June 18, 2012 . Lou I pointed Lothar to this thread discussing the New Medals Mod you put in Downloads Section. He got really excited about the idea of using your tables of rules that suggest award triggers for both a confirmed kill count for scout pilots and for a successfully completed mission count for 2-seater pilots/observers. I wonder if you would be amenable to us adapting your awards tables and other thoughts, for bundling with other Realism Mods for use in Lothar's OFFbase interface to JSGME Mod Manager. OlPaint OlPaint, you and Lothar are more than welcome to use the new medals and guidelines in your upcoming bundle. Don't really have other thoughts on it as I am lost when it comes to the mechanincs of what you've been putting togther, but I'm very impressed with your combined efforts thus far. Cheers! Lou . . Jarhead, thank you Sir for your meniton of the two US Marine aviators who were also awarded the CMOH in WWI. . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
