SF2 Series DACT Reports And Related A2A Discussions (Game only)

[Caesar 305]

DA,

 

I've actually been in CONUS for a while.  Went from Thule to Rome NY (former Griffiss AFB) to Schriever AFB CO.  Most of the stuff I worked on was done while at Rome, which was a really weird assignment for my AFSC when it happened.  I was under AFMC at the time and had a lot more spare time.  I'm back on the ops side of the house, so it's a higher work tempo again.  That and the Tomcat Super Pack has been relatively stable since patch 1.21.  There's a planned 1.22 in progress, but it seems to have gone to the back burner for a while, and to this day, I STILL can't get VF-211's damn nose stripes to look good, so follow ups to the Gulls skin pack have also been stifled.

 

zwz,

 

Check back through the thread.  I'm pretty sure I've taken an F-16 up against several of those aircraft in the past.

[+daddyairplanes 9,174]

preciate the update Ceasar.  knew you weren't gone, but just hadnt heard much outta you. of course Uncle Sam has the tendency to keep one VERY busy or Very bored.  notice more capitals on the very for busy.

 

as for the nose stripes, are you doing them on the skin or as tga?   if tga, i've danced it around the Phantom's schnoz before, could take a look at it for the Tomcat.

 

for ALCON,  would a Herc escape and evade count in here?  think i remember about a crew in Vietnam that got a manuever kill after getting chased up North thru the mountains.

[cougar_1979 37]

@Caeser
Any tips on how to aim those weir pipe sights in the F-16? I've been flying against Su-27s for the last half an hour. Getting behind a plane in an F-16 is very easy as long as you stay above 370-400KIAS (and manage not to black out ) but gettin a clear shot? The plane is just so "lively".... i can't line up at all. 3 od my 4 gun kills were at extreme close range, so close in fact that they were impssible to miss and were basicly snap shots. Otherwise the small + just seams to be always well bellow my hud and just can't get the wings to line up with the pipe. This was way easier in BMS ....
Maybe i should slow down? But the thing won't turn as well then. That was how i got my 4th kill

[Do335 382]

This was way easier in BMS ....

i don't mean to sass SF here but since falcon is the definitive f-16 sim and way up there on the realism scale... you know. there are ofc exceptions.

the viper in sf seems to have a very large roll inertia same as the eagle. the FM could use some more fine tuning imo. the real thing uses fbw and gets a force sensing stick so the rolls are really snappy, ailerons actually deflect opposite ways when the pilot release the pressure on the stick to brake down the roll rate.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Do335

[cougar_1979 37]

i don't mean to sass SF here but since falcon is the definitive f-16 sim and way up there on the realism scale... you know. there are ofc exceptions.

the viper in sf seems to have a very large roll inertia same as the eagle. the FM could use some more fine tuning imo. the real thing uses fbw and gets a force sensing stick so the rolls are really snappy, ailerons actually deflect opposite ways when the pilot release the pressure on the stick to brake down the roll rate.

Yeah i noticed that. At first i thought my stick sensitivity was too high, but the thing really rolls fast. Fast as in i am having some issues controlling it. I need to point out that i never flew it in SF before tonight though so comming from more sluggish AC i may need some time to adapt

[Do335 382]

Yeah i noticed that. At first i thought my stick sensitivity was too high, but the thing really rolls fast. Fast as in i am having some issues controlling it. I need to point out that i never flew it in SF before tonight though so comming from more sluggish AC i may need some time to adapt

the roll is indeed fast. kink is it rolls very slow with initial stick input, and suddenly mounts up a lotta roll with further stick. which's a bit weird and hard to control.

[Caesar 305]

Cougar,

 

For the + - sight on the F-16, at 1g, the bullets fly at the "+."

 

DA,

Working on them directly on the skin - will try a .tga.

 

zwz,

 

I went ahead and brought up an F-16C Block 50 against the MiG-29C CCCP for two DACT missions, then I did a baseline in the F-14B, and finally I did a fight in the F-16C Block 30 against the MiG-29C as well, based on how the first two went.

 

 

For both F-16C_B50 missions, both aircraft had 100% internal fuel, guns, and nothing else.

 

 

The first fight wasn't much of a fight.  One of the big differences between the F-14 and F-16 is their size.  On both missions flying the F-16C, the MiG-29 didn't immediately start turning into me, and in the first mission, this was to his detriment.  What happened was: the F-16C got nose on.  The MiG-29 went to beam the F-16's radar by flying in the same relative direction it had been.  The F-16 pulled to his six o'clock high, and the MiG-29 started a left-hand turn.  The fight never actually got out of this left-hand turn, and after about 30 seconds in the turn, the F-16 shot down the MiG-29 with guns.

 

 

Second fight started similar, however, this time the MiG actually turned into the F-16.  The fight then went on for THIRTEEN MINUTES.  Initially, the F-16 went vertical at the merge.  Even with near full tanks, the aircraft was sustaining its energy well.  The MiG-29 started a turn into the F-16, and as the F-16 tried to pull its nose to lead the MiG-29, overshot due to too much energy, and headed back up the circle.  The MiG continued its turn, then pulled vertical himself.  The MiG gained on the F-16, but burned more energy as it reached the top.  The F-16, lower on energy this time, went nose-low at the base of the loop, and began a nose-low turn as the MiG came down from the loop.  What happened next was two one-turn energy circles.  As the two aircraft began to approach the deck, the F-16 attempted a vertical press, but now was running into its angle of attack limiters.  As the F-16 reached the apex of the loop, the MiG pulled up as well, inside of the F-16.  The F-16 cut engine, put its lift vector to the same as the MiG and pulled, forcing an overshoot.

 

 

Due to lack of lift authority at the slow speeds, the F-16 was unable to capitalize on the overshoot, the MiG lit the cans, and a slow-speed set of turns developed.  The MiG had the clear advantage at the slower speeds as the F-16 ran into its lower alpha limit and took a snap shot at the F-16 during a second vertical press, missing and overshooting again.  Again, the F-16 was unable to capitalize on the overshoot, the MiG lit the cans, and another slow-speed set of turns developed.  The MiG again began getting the advantage due to better slow speed characteristics, however, the F-16 went nose low to try to force a ground kill against the MiG.  The MiG pulled out in time.  This happened yet another time, but this third time, the F-16 accelerated away.  Able to run long enough and high enough for the MiG to run critically low on fuel (maxing around 45,000 feet), the F-16 went nose-low, dropped airbreaks, and curled inside of the MiG, which was in a descending turn.

 

 

This was followed by the MiG attempting to extend and escape, but with under 1900 pounds of fuel (debug on), it couldn't run on afterburners.  The F-16 pursued the MiG, which accelerated to about 1.3M, then performed a sharp vertical pull, which was finished by a hard right-hand turn, which the F-16 could not match.  This happened about four times.  On the fourth occasion, the F-16 anticipated what the MiG would do, and pulled early into the predicted direction.  The MiG attempted to reverse as the F-16 got lead.  The F-16 rolled and pulled with the MiG, which reversed into another right turn, and it is here that the F-16 achieved a snap-shot guns kill.

 

 

Holy DAMN that was a long one!  However, I also began to suspect that the F-16C Block 50's flight model from my install wasn't the most up to date.  The aircraft was peaking around 7g through most of the fight, only just barely making it to 9 in very specific areas of the envelope.  I resolved to do a baseline in the F-14B, but also to take up an F-16C Block 30, which to my memory seemed much more maneuverable.

 

 

When I brought up the F-14B, I had the MiG-29 killed in just shy of three minutes.  Unlike the F-16, the MiG immediately got tally on the F-14 before the merge and began turning towards the F-14.  Aircraft merge, F-14 under MiG-29.  F-14 performs a vertical press, flaps to take-off at apex of the loop, lead on MiG on the way down, no shot, but had already begun pulling into the MiG and followed the MiG into its turn.  Gravity + GE engines = ENERGY; the F-14 stuck to the MiG's tail through its turn.  MiG levels off, then tries a very high "g" turn in the opposite direction, which drains energy gets both aircraft slow.  F-14 matches turn, and the MiG reverses, both aircraft down in the low 200's/high 100's of knots now.  Rudder and lateral stick into the direction of the MiG, which rolls about as slow as an F-14 (in some cases slower) into the vertical, initially trying to get the F-14 to overshoot.  MiG falls to about 250 feet off the nose of the F-14, visible out of the right quarter panel, but then strokes the burners when its apparent the F-14 isn't coming out front.  The MiG pulls vertical, getting some altitude, but the F-14 is directly behind and opens with a stream of 20mm, downing the MiG in a left-hand turn.

 

 

The F-16C Block 30 fight came after this.  In this case, I immediately noticed that the Block 30's FM was the newer mark.  I might have had the beta for the Block 50 still installed...still not 100% sure.  While this fight still wasn't as fast as the fight in the F-14B, the biggest difference is that I was either driving the fight, or confident that I could reverse a position of disadvantage.

 

 

The fight started with the MiG trying to beam the F-16's radar, and then turning into the F-16.  The F-16 turned with the MiG, going for max "g", which was much higher than the Block 50's.  Due to this experiment, energy was burned and the F-16 wound up coming out wide against the Fulcrum.  A one-circle followed with the F-16 in a position of advantage, but unable to capitalize.  Altitude lowered and the F-16 attempted to perform a vertical loop.  No position of advantage was gained, but the MiG, which still had slightly better limits, couldn't take advantage, either.

 

 

More turning on the deck, then the F-16 reversed and turned the fight into a two-circle.  The MiG got nose-on first, but had no angles for a shot, vertical for the F-16, lather, rinse, repeat.  The third time, however, turned fatal for the MiG.  After climbing above the F-16, and with the F-16 about 1500 feet off the deck turning into the MiG, the MiG attempted a diving attack against the F-16.  The F-16 did nothing to respond as it was unnecessary and the MiG put its nose in the dirt ending the fight at the five-minute mark.

 

 

I've said it many times before, it isn't the plane, it's the pilot.  Simply put, I'm not as good in the F-16 because I don't spend much time in it.  It feels very jittery to me in the gun pattern and it runs into its lift limits in the slow fight which is a killer for me, since I love getting rolled up into a furball.  The F-14 I'm much more familiar with and can fly and fight in it better.  At slow speeds, the flaps are a lifesaver, and I feel a lot more comfortable in the gun pattern.  

[Do335 382]

aannd the DACT thread is back and continues...:D

 

caesar,

i wonder what would happen if you went vertical at the merge with the viper like you did with the cat. the fulcrum albeit with twin engines cannot match the viper in the t/w department especially down low they say, it's sorta like a beefed up hornet. getting low and slow with the mig in a one circle altho unavoidable for me as well many times, should be imo tried to be avoided.

Edited August 26, 2014 by Do335

[Caesar 305]

Do,

 

Just gave that a shot.  Unfortunately, it didn't work as planned.  Not sure why.  When I did the loop, the MiG began to come upstairs with me as I came down from the apex, so I overshot, then pulled up into him.  Fight took about twelve minutes, but this time it was entirely neutral or offensive; the MiG didn't get on the -16's tail once.  It just took me that long to get a good firing solution to bag him!  In the real world, the F-16 might have better T/W at a given altitude/airspeed, but in the game, with the debug on, I can see how much thrust the engines are outputting on either aircraft at any altitude/airspeed, and the MiG-29C has about as good or better T/W than the F-16 in game at similar areas of the envelope.  The biggest problem for me didn't really come from power, but from limiters.  The MiG would be sitting between 24 and 28 true AoA while I was stuck at about 20, so it would almost always get inside my turn especially at slow speeds.  If memory serves that limit in game was put there so the F-16 wouldn't rip its wings off at high speeds, and it's not very noticeable until you get low on energy, hence why this fight I tried not to slog it out with the Fulcrum like I had in the previous fight.

[saisran 84]

Thank you very much Cougar! I really appreciate it! I know how limited my knowledge and skill is towards aviation. Frankly i don't understand all the terminology involved so i welcome all advise and criticism. I'll try to post more videos and if you guys have time i welcome you all to dissect them and tell me what i did wrong and what i did right. I think it'll help me improve a lot. I have a bad eyesight (500/550) so that thwarted my dreams of becoming a real pilot. At least in the virtual world of strike fighters i can fly to my hearts content. Thanks!

[Do335 382]

thank you Caesar. my sf2 install is dated 70s and earlier so the latest match up I got between F-16 and Mig-29 was in falcon bms. Although i could feel the viper enjoyed a definite advantage there was no way i could get on his tail until low on fuel (except using game exploits or being a dogfight master that is..). looks like the 2 aircrafts are truely equally matched.

[cougar_1979 37]

Thank you very much Cougar! I really appreciate it! I know how limited my knowledge and skill is towards aviation. Frankly i don't understand all the terminology involved so i welcome all advise and criticism. I'll try to post more videos and if you guys have time i welcome you all to dissect them and tell me what i did wrong and what i did right. I think it'll help me improve a lot. I have a bad eyesight (500/550) so that thwarted my dreams of becoming a real pilot. At least in the virtual world of strike fighters i can fly to my hearts content. Thanks!

You are welcome mate! Any questions about terminology you may have, feel free to ask, anyone here will be glad to help.

 

This is my F-16 block 25 (i don't have a 50 installed) VS MiG-29A guns only, neutral at the merge. Entering a turning contest apeared to be a futile affair as both AC seam pretty evenly matched in most respects. You can't tighten your turn without losing on turning rate and vice versa. Pushing a vertical is also an even match. Maybe i should have went for a steep climb when he blad out at 3:15 but instead i went for the long way around. Almost all methods of turning end up with a nose on nose encounter so something needs to be done to break out of the pattern.

 

For me it was a reversal during the vertical loop, building up the energy and then entering a continous left hand circle at 450KIAS (it appears to be the F-16 goldie lock). Fighting with lots of of blackouts there, but in the end after a 3-4 circles i menage to get a nose on. After that is just some rolling in and out for a better shot (turns out to be another point blank)

 

[cougar_1979 37]

Do you guys now any good carrier landing training missions? I just started the NA campaign and i can land on the carrier, but i want to practice it for RP reasons. Also, Ceasar, is there a way to implement your F-14's into the campaign? And would you recommend it?

[Caesar 305]

Cougar,

 

You can make your own carrier missions in the in-game mission editor.  Just make a recon mission and move all of the mission waypoints back to around the carrier (really, it could be any mission, I'd suppose).

 

For the TMF Super Pack F-14's in the campaigns, first, I must point out that I am part of a team that keeps them up to date in the Super Pack, so they aren't mine, they're The Mirage Factory's and I was added into the Super Pack effort as part of the team.  Adding them into the campaign is fairly easy.  First, you may need to extract the campaign data.ini's.  Once extracted, (I think it's CAMPAIGNNA1_DATA.ini) you're looking for the following:

 

[AirUnit001]

AircraftType=F-14A_77 <- Change This

Squadron=VF41 <- Change This

ForceID=1

Nation=USN

CarrierBased=TRUE

NavalUnitID=1

ShipID=1

DefaultTexture=USNGrey3 <- Change This

StartNumber=1

RandomChance=100

MaxAircraft=14

StartAircraft=14

MaxPilots=14

StartPilots=14

Experience=100

Morale=100

Supply=100

MissionChance[sWEEP]=90

MissionChance[CAP]=90

MissionChance[iNTERCEPT]=100

MissionChance[ESCORT]=90

MissionChance=0

MissionChance[CAS]=0

MissionChance[sEAD]=0

MissionChance[ARMED_RECON]=0

MissionChance[ANTI_SHIP]=0

MissionChance[RECON]=0

MissionChance[NAVAL_SEARCH]=0

MissionChance[NAVAL_ATTACK]=0

MissionChance[ESCORT_JAMMER]=0

MissionChance[ESCORT_DECOY]=0

MissionChance[CRUISE_MISSILE]=0

MissionChance[EARLY_WARNING]=0

UpgradeType=NEVER

 

[AirUnit002]

AircraftType=F-14A_77<- And This

Squadron=VF84 <- And This

ForceID=1

...etc

 

If you're flying pre-82, use F-14A_74.  1982-1995 use F-14A_82, and 1996-2004 use F-14A_96.  IIRC, the map defaults to 1974-1989.  You can keep the squadrons if you want, but the DefaultTexture is not going to be the same for the TMF F-14's.  Might have to change that to the squadron you want to fly's texture.  It's been a while since I've screwed with the campaign files so I'm a bit rusty.

 

The TMF F-14s are compatible with all of the basic weaponry available of the SF2:NA campaign, so you shouldn't run into problems of weapons not appearing.  Would I recommend it?  Well, I can't say I wouldn't!  Just kind of depends on your preference.  If you run into difficulties, use the search or PM me.

[cougar_1979 37]

Thanks mate! Will try that. I would definitely go with the 74, cold war being the primary focus of my interest right now. Time to learn some editing and mission creation i guess (and it's about time for me to get more involved being a nubie and all that lol)

Edited August 27, 2014 by cougar_1979

[saisran 84]

Thanks Cougar for the tips. 

 

Because of the Wonderful DACT Report posted by Caesar i decided to take an F-14 up in the virtual sky. What followed was a weird series of 1v1 engagement that seems more like a race than a fight. 

 

F-14B vs the F-15C. I'm not sure which release version it was ( i once entered a state where i went crazy with the tomcats and tried to alter the FM a bit ) but flying it sure was awesome. 

 

5nm apart .nose to nose, F-14B 14K ft, F-15C 5k Ft and Climbing to intercept. after the merge i went vertical. as i was coming from level flight my energy was much higher and i was able to loop my plane around the F-15. I was expecting the eagle to start a circle. Instead it nosed down and lit the cans. accelerating from 300Kts to Mach 1 in an instant. I was also on the burners and coming down from a higher altitude thus i was able to match the acceleration of the eagle. The eagle Kept on the burners  and we accelerated to around the region of M 1.5. Due to the sheer Thrust ratio advantage of the eagle i wasnt able to close the gap of 1.2Nm however down at 2k ft it hink my tomcat found some tailwinds and my plane nosed up on its own without loosing speed climbed on its own up to 10k Ft. I rolled in my back and the lift carried the F-14 in an inverted dive accelerating to 1.78 which is faster than the F-15's average of M 1.7. I repeated the maneuver a couple more and my plane is now 0.8Nm from the bandit. I'm not sure if the eagle is trying to run me out of fuel or it just think my tomcat in clean configuration can't catch up. 5 mins after i guess the eagle reached the stress limits of its engine and cut the after burners. I was relieve as my own engine and oil temp have been on the read line for quite some time now. I followed the eagle in a series  of shallow turns and rolls and gun it down when it cut right into my flight path.

 

I'll tried to capture the same scenario on video but i wasn't able to simulate what happened in the first engagement. I thought that its just the AI not being able to  handle bigger jets but when the Mig 29 ran straight in full burners. I was really perplexed. I hope i can upload the videos soon.

Edited August 27, 2014 by saisran

[cougar_1979 37]

That is rather odd case indeed. I had it happen to me only once, when i was going up against a Su-27 in an F-16. I went into the merge with wither separation then usual and turned into him as soon as we crossed (left hand circle as i usually do). The first turn brouhgt us in a neautral heads on, but the Flanker started pulling harder (and bleeding more) in order to get a snap shot at the second crossing. As a result he ended up in the 270KIAS region, while  i was in the 400's. So i just turned into his tail and pulled a level turn around 420-450KIAS (angels 5-8) and got on his back. He probably knew he could not maintain the turning rate that slow, so he unloaded half through my turn and kicked in the burner. As soon as i completed my turn i found him at 12 o'clock high, some 25-30 degrees up and climbing. I went balitic in order to match his altitude (as had a better headstart) but he leveled off at angels 25 and started accelerating like mad. He was already 1.7nm away from me when i level off behind his 6. I kicked into full burner trying to catch up, but this was a fool's errand. I could keep up with him till mach 1.6-1.7 but as we started closing to mach 2 i just hit the wall. He peaked around mach 2.17 at nagels 30 while i was lagginh behind at 1.9. I whached as my fuel counter closed to the bingo number, and thought about giving up, when suddenly he came out of burner and went nose down at military power. I cought up with him and bounced him from above. Nailed him with a gunshot before he had time to go vertical again thanks to my altitude advantage (i went down on him at full military power from angels 10, while he was bellow 5). It has never happenned before or since. I had a recording of the entire pursuit but it was over 25min long and would take forever to upload so i deleted it.

[Do335 382]

OK my ride is ofc the F-86F, opping the Mig-15bis in two 1 v 1 engagements. First one went real quick. I spotted him about 5 nm out and was already doing mach .96. He was dragging along at some 300kts. We merged, he went down, I went up, he'd gone into a right hand downward spiral and.. was still doing it as i came down from upstairs and shot him with a fair bit of deflection. My aim went a bit to the right but the 50 caliber rounds clipped him in the right wing, tearing up the right aileron. After my firing pass the mig continued his right hand turn, but with the damaged wing he inevitably went into the flat spin of death, hence concluding the 1st engagement.

 

Seeing how bad the AI is in the vertical I decided to make the fight fair. So in the 2nd engagement I slowed to 300ish kts before the merge, almost the same as the mig. As we went head to head I roll to the left to create some turning space and, avoid head on shots with the mig. I rolled back to the right just in time, and we went into a completely horizontal 2 circle. As I came around I was lagging him with some 70 degrees angle off, and so promply went into a high yoyo to create some vertical turning room. As I was coming down from it the mig does the same! I follow him up into my 2nd yoyo, decided it was close enough to press while on the apex, and so with the help of god's G and a tigher pull the nose gradually came up to the mig, when he was in a slight climb in his seemingly 3rd yoyo. The mig miraculously senses the imminent danger and bunts down the nose to spoil a gun fire solution. I opened fire, booted some rudder, and got some sporadic hits on him. I overshot to the right side high, he appears damaged and attempting to evade in a gentle left descending turn. I saddled in his six, boards open, and followed up with a few bursts. The last burst probably killed the pilot because the rounds were seen to go there and the canopy came off. I pulled up just in the nick of time to avoid becoming a human sidewinder, glancing back over the left wing to see the mig bursting into flames.

 

You gotta admit, the 2nd engagement is more like a samurai's fight hence more exciting and enjoyable, but it is apparent which one is more efficient!

 

Edited August 27, 2014 by Do335

[cougar_1979 37]

No contest about effeciency there!
And yes, that second fight is just what i like all my flights to be like :D

[Caesar 305]

Since the F-15 hasn't seen much loving recently, I decided to take it up against the MiG-29.  For the fight, I used Crusader's Early F-15C (1979).

 

Although I don't use the F-15 very much, I know it doesn't run into the limiters that the -16 does, and I know it has excellent thrust to weight ratio.  Its major drawback with my preferred fighting style is the lack of wing-length flaps.

 

Fight starts, and like going against the F-14, the MiG-29 spots the F-15 immediately and turns into the F-15.  The F-15 takes a similar initial approach as the F-14: pass under the MiG-29 and make an immediate vertical press.  The MiG begins a right turn as the F-15 reaches the apex, and as the F-15 begins to come down and attempt to get lead, the MiG begins to pull into the vertical to force an overshoot.  The F-15 comes down through the MiG's altitude and pulls back up to follow.  Two vertical loops follow, and initially, the F-15 has the advantage.  The MiG begins to flatten out into a turn, and the F-15 follows, but the MiG somehow managed to gain more energy and begins out-turning the F-15 until the fight goes about neutral and nothing happens.

 

After several circles, the F-15 levels out and gets to about 450 knots, with the MiG on its tail about 2 miles behind.  The F-15 begins a 6.5g turn to the left, which it builds to about 8.2g.  At 10,000 feet and 450 knots, the F-15 is very nearly sustaining 8g, only losing a few knots per second, while the MiG pulls hard, but too hard to sustain the turn, and the F-15 gets behind the MiG's 3/9 line.  The MiG levels off for a moment and the F-15 continues pursuit.    Getting about three-quarters of a mile off, the F-15 starts catching up to the MiG, who starts turning again.  The F-15 starts to overshoot and attempts a high g barrel roll.  Coming down, the MiG breaks into the F-15, but the F-15 gets lead.  At about 330 knots and 7.2g, the F-15 is able to achieve lead on the MiG and takes a snap shot roughly four minutes into the fight.  The shot misses, and the MiG pulls away.

 

As another energy circle is about to form, the F-15 goes nose-low to try to maintain energy and cut the MiG off mid-circle.  The F-15 gets the nose near the MiG, who takes the opportunity to press nose-low as well, and winds up below the F-15, and performs a harsh pull to try to get nose on.  The aircraft pass with no valid shots, and as the F-15 follows the MiG, the MiG levels out and starts another circle.  The F-15 follows the MiG to the deck, hoping that will screw with the MiG's tactics.  The F-15 begins a series of vertical presses which wind up fruitless.  The MiG is typically able to out-pitch the F-15, but also runs out of energy earlier.  This allows the F-15 to repeatedly wind up behind the MiG's 3/9 line, but also without big flaps, unable to really curl inside the MiG to capitalize on the position.

 

On the fourth press, the F-15 performs a double-Immleman, which totally runs the MiG out of energy.  The MiG is stuck nose-up with the F-15 coming down, finally landing on the MiG's tail.  The MiG is at under 1,600 pounds of fuel, but the F-15 also has about 4,500 pounds, and the fight has to end soon.  The F-15 minimally uses afterburner chasing the MiG through a series of harsh break turns, followed by leveling off, followed by harsh break turns (etc). approximately four times.  On the fourth, the MiG starts a turn to the left, and the F-15 gets good lead, killing the MiG with guns in a left-hand turn at just above 8000 feet and 12 minutes into the fight.

 

This fight took about as long as my F-16 fights, and I feel that it's better to keep the F-15's energy up.  It might be able to brute force itself through a slow-speed loop, but it feels to me that without the extra lifties from the flaps, it can't capitalize as quick on its position of advantage down in the 100's of knots.  The MiG-29 was still able to out pitch me, but without the limiters, I was more able to counter, and I think the MiG got nose on twice; once early in the weeds, but it ran out of energy, then a second time during the double-Immleman after I started the second vertical pull.  It again ran out of energy as my F-15 forced itself into the second vertical component (I are a rocket!), but the MiG tried to follow me with much less airspeed and really got stuck!  

 

Will have to try out some other aircraft.  I did an F/A-18C two pages back, IIRC.  Probably give the Fulcrum a rest.

[Do335 382]

Caesar was there ever a good old hard wing phantom vs mig-17 guns only in here?

 

figure that's where sf series started with.

 

i can't ever get on his tail. best was run him outta fuel. or catch him with a heater shot if i had one.

[Caesar 305]

Do533,

 

I'm sure there are some examples in here; page 8 had some F-4D vs. MiG-19 action, and I think we had some fights against the MiG-17, I just don't remember where.  The MiG-17 is a damn UFO in SF2, but I've generally found the best success against them by flying loops.  They eventually run out of energy having a lower T:W than the F-4.  Turning?  No chance in hell!  The thing is, unlike the actual MiG-17, these ones can put on ridiculous turns at high speeds.  Whereas a real MiG-17 will do about 3-4g at 450 knots (no hydraulics), the SF2 ones will put on more than 10 (found this out with debug on).  As such, they'll turn with you at high speed, and they'll out turn you at slow speed.  Pure vertical fight, though, is where you can get them more easily.

[saisran 84]

So I finally managed to get atleast 2 vids uploaded. Pardon the poor quality as its the best that i can do.

 

 

after the earlier engagement with the F-15 i tried to record it again. Went vertical at the merge. blacked out a bit and found him above my nose about 1nm. F-15 started a right hand which i thought would developed into a full circle but mid way through it he changed his mind and headed to the other direction. As the F-14B can roll. I managed to get inside his turn. Fired several misses which i thought was good shots. ( where exactly should i place the bandit when the --o-- symbol and the + symbol are far apart? ) Basically i got pissed and started shooting randomly i clipped a wing. The eagle was incapacitated so without regards for dignity i made it rain cannon shells.

 

3rd fight was against an Su-33. the fight ended in a series of high speed breaks and rolls, and low speed breaks and rolls. which lasted for a very long time. Sadly the upload failed.

 

 

This next fight was against a Mig-29K. He did what the F-15 did and basically punch the burners and raced my tomcat at Mach 1. I was shooting rounds here and there as i was still trying to re-acquaint myself with the dancing gun sights. half way through the fight i thought we was finally going to turn the fight into a  circle so i mistakenly took the tomcat out of the burner. I raced to mach 1.3 in order to catch the Mig who instigated a couple of supersonic g mnouvers. The fight ended when the mig drifted under my F-14. Wanting to end the fight i rolled the tomcat on its back to get a better view of the mig and let a burst of cannon shell out as the mig pulled up right across my nose. The shells landed near center and totaled the fulcrum.

 

Dying for a turning fight i went ahead and took out the F-16C from the viper team. This by far was the most intriguing fight and it highly frustrate me as i failed to capture any of the action that took place. Same scenario i merged with the falcon went to vertical and found my self chasing after a falcon going at mach 1. It was almost the same as the eagle fight except the falcon danced at under 1000ft at supersonic speeds. The turns and pitch changes was shallow but getting a lock on the small and agile falcon proved to be difficult as i have to contend with not hitting the ground as well. time and again we went below 200ft going blasting at mach 1. Then it happened... the falcon disappeared from radar and my gun lock was broken. The AI made a fatal miscalculation and crashed. I was given the Mission accomplished.

[cougar_1979 37]

Under normal conditions you want to get the gunsight piper on the diamond box, or on the bandit (whatever seams more convinient or likely to work) and keep it there at least 0.5-1s for the burst to connect. However during heavily loaded turns, you might want to get the piper a bit ahead of the diamond/bandit in the direction of his lift vector (larger deflection shots). This can be a bit of a problem as the bandit will tend to junk and roll out of plane a lot. Try following the advise from the upper posts, starting from lag pursuit, try to level your banking angle with the bandit's (both your wings and his wings in the same plane-and keep it that way), then start pulling untill you match his turn rate. When you do, try leading the piper ever more closely to the desired position. I will go through my recordings and see if i can find and upload one that is shorter then 20 munites.

[cougar_1979 37]

EDIT: jink, not junk :P
Unfortunately it won't let me edit it after so much time elapsed :(
Uploading a short video of an F-14A VS Su-27 (not my favorite duel, that would be VS F-15) but it ends with a nice deflection shot. It should be up in an hour and a half or so.