SF2 Series DACT Reports And Related A2A Discussions (Game only)

[Do335 382]

Caesar,

 

did a F-4J with gunpod vs mig-17 clean. I think the added weight and drag of the pod really slowed me down, when coming down from the loop with flaps extended everytime, i was unable to put nose on him. He otoh was able to point at me many times but due to my huge speed advantage never got inside 1nm, but that was it. A few loops later I ran outta juice, dropped down low, repeated the same trick of loops, and still no joy. Eventually the mig got down to ~500lbs of fuel and started running away which was when i chased him down and got him. I think this was a exact repeat of my earlier dogfights when flying the 'nam campaigns when was outta missiles.

Simply put, tough bastard UFO he is indeed...

 

Under normal conditions you want to get the gunsight piper on the diamond box, or on the bandit (whatever seams more convinient or likely to work) and keep it there at least 0.5-1s for the burst to connect. However during heavily loaded turns, you might want to get the piper a bit ahead of the diamond/bandit in the direction of his lift vector (larger deflection shots). This can be a bit of a problem as the bandit will tend to junk and roll out of plane a lot. Try following the advise from the upper posts, starting from lag pursuit, try to level your banking angle with the bandit's (both your wings and his wings in the same plane-and keep it that way), then start pulling untill you match his turn rate. When you do, try leading the piper ever more closely to the desired position. I will go through my recordings and see if i can find and upload one that is shorter then 20 munites.

actually it seems all the pipers in SF are 1G piper, i.e. the rounds will connect if the target is flying straight, but not if they're maneuvering. Therefore you still have to pull lead, just no need to calculate bullet drop and your own ac's G. i think it's one o'those simplifications TK chose.

however i'm not sure if i even prefer the "full" lead computing gyro stuff, too jittery maybe. I dunno.

Edited August 28, 2014 by Do335

[Caesar 305]

Yeah, that's the chief problem with gun pods: big and draggy!  You could always check out the F-4E; it's not fixed wing like you were aiming for, but at the same time, it's got the gun internal!

[cougar_1979 37]

 

 

actually it seems all the pipers in SF are 1G piper, i.e. the rounds will connect if the target is flying straight, but not if they're maneuvering. Therefore you still have to pull lead, just no need to calculate bullet drop and your own ac's G. i think it's one o'those simplifications TK chose.

however i'm not sure if i even prefer the "full" lead computing gyro stuff, too jittery maybe. I dunno.

Could be, though the F-14A/B piper seam relatively OK to me (maybe i am just used to it).

 

Here is that F-14A vs Su-27 video, it just got up.

This is part of my new wide separation approach trials. In stead of going head to head directly i live a wide separation margin in the horizontal. What i used to do before when facing AC from similar generations was to build up energy before the merge (at least 450KIAS, prefferably more then 500), go out of burner around 5nm from the target (to reduce IR signature even though no missiles are being used, "fly as you train"-RP reasons, i have no idea if this works in SF), start climbing as you merge and after he has passed me i would reverse the climb, hit the burners and try to corner my first half of the inverted loop, then relax the pull and build up some energy in the turn until i came out of the loop at around 360KIAS. This way i usually minimise my own turning time while retaining good energy capability and flexibility. This by no means is any assurence that you will get into a good position. In fact if the enemy has flown his AC to the sustainable limit you will probablly still end up in an a head on encounter, However, being in an F-14 it probably means you will end up a bit closer to the most AC then they would to you, completing the same turn cycle at a bit tighter radius. Two major flaws (to my liking) in this though. One, you end up bellow the target, which in a guns only means you have no clear shot and have to climb to get hi, and two, cornering through half a turn usually means blacking out and losing some situational awareness.

 

So i decided to try doing the merge at wider separation (preferably around a turn radius). This would allow me (and the bandit) to complete the first cycle in less then a 1/2 circle (idealy around 1/4), which means less time spent at high g's and thus less blackout. It also means keeping a neutral altitude position after the first pass. Downside, you need to watch your airspeed closely. Bleed off too much energy and your F-14A won't have enough juice or time to regain it as the bading will be on you right away.

 

I let the badnit to my left and approached close with him at more then 500-550KIAS. I let him pass and went into a full left hand turn at 350-360KIAS. I came out of the first 1/4 at around 330 but i had no clear view of him so continued my turn as did he. He stayed fast and kept comming around me. I got my nose down a bit low to regain some energy and being in a tighter turn then him (around 340-350) finally got a nose on his 3/9 line by the end of the next 1/2 cirlce (1:40-1:50). From this point onwards it was just a matter judging the right moment to go in after him. Flying lag, and trying to see that "he is comming in hard across the horizon moment" to pull in on his six (periodicaly unloading to get the blood flow back in the brain and to ramp up a few dozen extra knots - F-14A is not as bed when accelerating above 340knots unlike in the weeds). At 3:40 i see the right moment and pull in behind him. As i enter his turn cycle he enters the "panic mode" and starts jinking and sliding which makes him bleed a lot of energy. That leaves me both behind him and with an energy advantage. One more 1/4 circle and i have over 100knots on him plus a perfect angle to start my leading pull. Saisran, take a look at the range bar, we are less then a 1/3 mile away at this point. The kill is executed at 1/5 of a mile (4:37) 333KIAS, slight lead, piper on target and splash one. 

 

Edited August 29, 2014 by cougar_1979

[Do335 382]

nice one out turning the flanker! looks like the ai puts up a good enough struggle as well.

[saisran 84]

This vid Finally uploaded. Same situation as the previous vid. Were flying at speeds above mach 1 and i lost patience. firing rounds trying to figure out where they are headed.

 

\http://youtu.be/vk_gVtmiY6w

 

@Cougar. when i fire the guns the bullet seems to pass through either the -o- fixed symbol on the HUD or the + cross hair symbol. I now think that the path of the bullet when maneuvering in a turn will follow the -o- symbol to the + cross hair. 

 

Fighting at Mach 1++ is kinda fun but i missed the turning engagement in the subsonic jets. unless i allow the bandit to get behind my 3/9 line. i don't think will ever go into a turning fight in the 4th gen planes. I have the latest patch update. what patch level are you guys using?

[Kyot54 2]

    Ok, so question here. I don't have the mission editor at the moment, case of myfundsalow. Is that what I am going to need to create 1v1 DACT missions? I've been playing around trying to get the AI to work Flankers into Single Missions over Iceland, Germany, and Paran, no such luck. I can get Fulcrums, but generally I am still mucking around with Floggers. Getting kinda ticked. And then of course there is the BVR aspect of the Single Mission which means I've got to smack a bunch of them in the face, hope one survives for some turn and burn. Also, I have a missions folder from some downloads (Operation Darius, Desert Storm), but they don't seem to want to show up when I go to the Load Mission part of Single Mission. How do I fix that? And on a side topic, I've done it once or twice, but I've seemed to lose the magic, isn't there a way to put a F-14 Alpha skin on a Bravo or Delta and keep the pipes and chin pods accurate?

    I love DACT, used to do it all the time in FA. Sucks that SF2 doesn't have multiplayer, is the MP in SF1 any good? I trying to convince a buddy to get WOV so we can fly together. I generally prefer Tomcats and Crusaders, but the Super Bug is growing on me, a little. It will never be as Sierra Hotel as the Tomcat. If Caesar or Eric has taken the Turkey up against the Rhino2, can you link it? There are 34 pages of DACT to look through :/ Or I might just get off my lazy bottom and do a search.

    As for me, I've found in what 1v1 after merge I have done Tomcat v Fulcrum, I tend to finish the fight quicker if I go vertical initially with a buttload of energy (450kts+) in burner. The MiG driver seems to be expecting me to turn with him and stays flat. I have had some marathon round and round we go one circle fights where a lot of patience comes in handy. Both times it ended with the Fulcrum driver eventually breaking for home, and in one case, out of Winders I had to close for guns. Fulcrum has some good guns D.

    I'm also looking forward to going Crusader vs Flogger. I've done it once or twice, can't remember the details other than Navy won. I like the Crusader, it really makes me focus on energy management and using the vertical.

 

    Anyway, thanks beforehand for any help, and for putting up with an SF newb .

 

                                                                                                                                                                                               Peace, J

[Do335 382]

Ok, so question here. I don't have the mission editor at the moment, case of myfundsalow. Is that what I am going to need to create 1v1 DACT missions?

affm i use the mission editor, have yet to find another way as convenient. however the saved single missions (.msn files) are in text format, so... a simple text editor should do the job too.

 

 

alas going vertical with buttloads of energy at merge seems indeed to be a good idea. i did that in sabre vs fagot, and found one of caesar's (i believe) old vids which has the same happening in the first engagement with fast kill results (edit: ooot, note! video is caesar's!)

 

 

but it also reminds me of exceptions, where the oppo has excess energy and comes up to get you. i think one of mine resulted in a series of vertical scissors, and i always hate scissors in whichever shape or format. but it depends on what the AI was thinking and how he was doing energy wise i suppose:p

Edited August 29, 2014 by Do335

[Caesar 305]

Yep, that was one of my old vids.  I've gotten a lot better since then!

 

Kyot, got some answers:

 

Ok, so question here. I don't have the mission editor at the moment, case of myfundsalow. Is that what I am going to need to create 1v1 DACT missions? I've been playing around trying to get the AI to work Flankers into Single Missions over Iceland, Germany, and Paran, no such luck. I can get Fulcrums, but generally I am still mucking around with Floggers. Getting kinda ticked. And then of course there is the BVR aspect of the Single Mission which means I've got to smack a bunch of them in the face, hope one survives for some turn and burn. Also, I have a missions folder from some downloads (Operation Darius, Desert Storm), but they don't seem to want to show up when I go to the Load Mission part of Single Mission. How do I fix that?

 

For Mission Editor, it's available as DLC for 9.99.  If you buy it, go to Single Mission and click on the little pencil at the lower right above the "Accept" button.  Within the Mission Editor, you can select the aircraft icons and change their attributes, from type, to loadout, etc.

 

 

BUT!  If you don't, you can still kind of force what aircraft will show up in a given mission.  I believe you always have the ability to save a single mission after you complete it.  Once saved, exit SF2, go to your Saved Games/ThirdWire/Strike Fighters x/Missions folder and open the mission with notepad.  From there, look for your bandit groups (usually the first one is [AircraftMission002].  AircraftType= (second line down) can be changed to whatever other installed aircraft you have (say, Su-27).  In here, you can also modify the loadout, and even waypoints, but without a map, changing the waypoints is a pain to get right!  Save the changes, then load that mission in Single Mission and you should be good to go.  Also, ODS and Op Darius, if memory serves, are campaigns, not single missions, so you'd find them under Campaign.

 

 

And on a side topic, I've done it once or twice, but I've seemed to lose the magic, isn't there a way to put a F-14 Alpha skin on a Bravo or Delta and keep the pipes and chin pods accurate?

 

Yes, you can.  I've done that for the F-14B and F-14D.  The skins themselves don't change the physical model of the aircraft, only its paint scheme.  Easiest way to do it for the F-14B is to take an F-14A's skin set (F-14A_001 - F-14A_005) and change the engine "turkey feathers," turbine, and exhaust to the F110's in F-14A_005.  You'll need to update some other stuff, such as the name and texture set.

 

 

 I love DACT, used to do it all the time in FA. Sucks that SF2 doesn't have multiplayer, is the MP in SF1 any good? I trying to convince a buddy to get WOV so we can fly together. I generally prefer Tomcats and Crusaders, but the Super Bug is growing on me, a little. It will never be as Sierra Hotel as the Tomcat. If Caesar or Eric has taken the Turkey up against the Rhino2, can you link it? There are 34 pages of DACT to look through :/ Or I might just get off my lazy bottom and do a search.

 

Getting Multiplayer to work in the SF1 series is a little tricky - you have to have the EXACT same install.  Recommend you pick the jets and weapons you want and keep it ONLY to that.  I recall playing MP on a LAN once with a full blown modded install and my friend using the exact same file - there was so much stuff that the computers didn't even try to connect.  We went with a minimal install of extra aircraft and weapons and viola! It worked!  And yes, EricJ and I have taken up F-14 and F/A-18E/F against either respective plane several times.   

 

 

Hope this helps!

 

[Kyot54 2]

   Yes, Muchas Gracias!  I haven't saved any single missions yet, so I haven't played around with it, I will now begin doing so. As far as the Campaigns go, they are in a separate campaign folder, I think one of them included some extra 1v1's, mostly Alpha 'Cat's against MiG-17's and 21's and such. But that's only looking at them from the textual side, haven't seen hide nor hair of them in game. I know I probably will have to wait on getting the Mission editor for at least another month.

 

   Thanks for the skins info, I'll play around with that. Admittedly I wonder if I play around too much sometime. just waiting for SF to crash on me for some line I changed :/

 

   So sound like I need to be conscientious of file changes. That makes sense, I had modded FA and unless my wingman had the same mods, it either wouldn't stay connected or it would set us to defaults or something along those lines.  

 

   Caesar, I get the impression you love the Tomcat as much as I do. You're welcome at my campfire anytime! Have you dealt with the gross injustice of the F-14 (B's and D's especially) being denied the AMRAAM because they self funded the LANTIRN? In game the Slammers can't match the Phoenix for range, but within 40 miles, the do clear the air nicely! I have seen a similar Bravo 'Cat vs. Flanker video on YouTube, was a bit of a marathon fight set to the tune of Last of the Mohicans? I take it that was you? Great vid and awesome music choice! 

 

   I'll let y'all know how things work out from all this intel. Thanks again!

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Peace, J

[saisran 84]

 Have you dealt with the gross injustice of the F-14 (B's and D's especially) being denied the AMRAAM because they self funded the LANTIRN? In game the Slammers can't match the Phoenix for range, but within 40 miles, the do clear the air nicely! I have seen a similar Bravo 'Cat vs. Flanker video on YouTube, was a bit of a marathon fight set to the tune of Last of the Mohicans? I take it that was you? Great vid and awesome music choice! 

 

   I'll let y'all know how things work out from all this intel. Thanks again!

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                            Peace, J

I saw in one vid ( i think it was an AIMVAL vid) that the tomcat was used as a test bed for the AMRAAM. The tomcat wasn't cleared for AMRAAM as the coolness will reach level 9999 but based on that documentary i saw the cat can theoretically carry the AIM-120. What they said about the Radars AWG-9 and APG-71not being compatible with the 120s is bull. The AWG 9 was the first radar to have multiple track and kill capability and the APG-71 is basically the same radar installed on the Eagle, just bigger and more powerful.

Edited August 29, 2014 by saisran

[Caesar 305]

Folks,

 

Kind of getting off topic here; recommend bringing it back to DACT reports.

[Kyot54 2]

Ok, so, my first official DACT report:

 

Me: F-14D (96) w/ 4 9Mikes, full internal fuel

 

Bandit: Su-27, 4 Archers, full internal fuel, Training level: Normal

 

 

    So, we started out about twenty miles apart, bandit heading across my nose right to left (or starboard to port if you prefer). He finally pulls nose on me at about 5 miles. I'm at about.95 Mach. At 3.5 miles, I start casually popping a flare and tight barrel roll thanks to the creep on the earlier test run popping off all his archers at 3 miles head on, ending in mutually assured destruction. We pass about 2 yard apart, I'm inverted half-way through a barrel roll, so I cut throttle only slightly, and turn it into a low yo-yo, maintaining a one-circle fight orientation. Flanker comes back around and we cross about 30 degrees of nose to nose, at which point I plug into burner to keep up my energy and go vertical. Once over the top he was in a left hand turn, so I ruddered rolled down in behind him. Fox 2, good shot but got fooled by the flares. From then on I was pretty much just staying in the saddle. He would draw it into a scissors ever now and then, and would be just far off enough my nose for a gun burst to miss. Then I would lag pursuit a little to let him get back out in front for a Winder shot. 3 more shots, 3 more misses, all good tones too. Grrr. So I just finally settle in a work on getting a good gun track. He was bucking like a bronc, but finally he tried a tried a quick sustained turn long enough for me to padlock him at about .35-.4 or a mile. 20 mike-mike does the job:

 

 

[Kyot54 2]

   Correction and add on to this mornings post, since I was in a hurry and didn't check behind myself  We initially passed at 200 yards apart, not 2 (yikes! What was the range? Two meters. More like one and a half, he was right there. What were you doing there? Communicating. Communicating?  You know, giving him the  . . .) Sorry had to do it, LOL.

 

   Obviously the text editing saved single missions worked, thanks again to Caesar for that. I've done a couple so far, including F-14D vs MiG-29C Went into the vertical per usual, fight would have been over in 15 seconds if the dang Winder hadn't wimped out on the flares AGAIN. Descending left hand turn, round and round til we are both slow as snails (220-250 kias). Wasn't gaining any angles 'til I lowered the flaps, finally pull lead, he reverses in an attempt to get away and get some energy. Bad move with a 14 just hovering behind you with a set of 9 Mikes. Boom! Sorry no pic for this one, will have to refly and make sure to get some. I beginning to believe the Tomcat can almost outturn an A-10 when it's wings out, TO flaps!  

 

   Did a couple of missions to set up for some F-8 vs MiG-23 DACT. So far really disappointed, even on Normal, Flogger pilots just want to shoot and scoot. The only turning engagement was still over quick, he was turning like  Foxbat at Mach 2. However, I did bring something away from the experience. In the set missions it was 2 v 4+ MiG-17s. More than one ended up on my tail close, just a few degrees off, just enough to keep me alive. I remembered some of the commentary from Cdr Dick Schaffert's 1 v 4 engagement in Dec '67. When in a similar situation, he did a negative G (pitch down) tuck and half barrel roll down and away from the turn. The roll rate of the MiG-17 is horrible, so you get some good separation and some time to unload and gain energy. I'm pretty sure this works in the Phantom too. Definitely want to kick a lot of rudder in. I remember seeing a post about tactics versus the -17 yesterday at some point, so I thought I'd throw that in. Although, it might be in here somewhere already.

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           Peace all, J

[Do335 382]

ok, as suggested, hard wing F-4E vs Mig-17 aka the UFO, both clean guns only, 10,000ft. 2 engagements. Probably my last as free time is winding down again.

 

First engagement, separation 25miles. Went nose low full burner, accelerated to mach 1.3 at the merge. Pitched up into a loop, mig follows, he ran outta juice and started pitching down into a left hand turn, regained some of his speed and started pitching up again. I came back down, the mig was high, not enough turning room, no nose on no shot. Rinse and repeat for a few times, the mig would always end up above me as i was going for a nose on. I then became a little more aggressive in my pulls and started to let the rhino buffet a bit. This ended up in me putting the pipper on his tail pipe, but not enough to lead him, so again no shot. OTOH, I bled too much energy in return and as I was starting to climb back, the mig's guns opened up. Thankfully my speed reserve was still good enough to out run him.

 

This lasted until I was down to 3000lbs of fuel. The mig had 1000lbs+ and was still in the fight. So I decided to end it and call it a draw. Me being totally unsatisfied ofc.

 

Fires it up again into 2nd engagement. Accelerated, merged, pulled up, came down to find the mig at an odd angle, same deal. The 2nd loop, I was able to get on his tail with him doing 120ish kcas. I was hanging there at about 270 and had very little nose authority so had to let him go and went nose low to accelerate. The futile loops repeated for a few more times, then it dawned on me what went wrong. I had so much speed pulling up, and the rhino's turn radius being huge, I had gained so much horizontal separation traveling upwards that it made my downward turn too early, and left me with too much angle off towards the mig. So the next time as I arrived on the apex of the loop, I stayed there, 170~180kcas, wings inverted, still maintaining a bit climb rate to maintain altitude advantage, until judging the mig was at the right angle to start pulling down. This resulted in me sliding right back on his 6 at about 1nm with 400+ kts to spare. The mig was again floating at 100+ kts, started a right hand turn but this time was unable to escape and the rhino came out victorious.

 

All in all, while I am fascinated by the phantom, I deem its flying characteristics less than satisfactory for a fighter jet. Its turn radius is the size of texas and easily goes into buffeting at the slight onset of alpha without enough airspeed. I can fathom enough awe and respect for the airmen that fighted them against the agile migs but am more thankful for the 3rd gen teen fighters that came into being because of this...

ok, as suggested, hard wing F-4E vs Mig-17 aka the UFO, both clean guns only, 10,000ft. 2 engagements. Probably my last as free time is winding down again.

 

First engagement, separation 25miles. Went nose low full burner, accelerated to mach 1.3 at the merge. Pitched up into a loop, mig follows, he ran outta juice and started pitching down into a left hand turn, regained some of his speed and started pitching up again. I came back down, the mig was high, not enough turning room, no nose on no shot. Rinse and repeat for a few times, the mig would always end up above me as i was going for a nose on. I then became a little more aggressive in my pulls and started to let the rhino buffet a bit. This ended up in me putting the pipper on his tail pipe, but not enough to lead him, so again no shot. OTOH,%2

[Do335 382]

oops, sorry for the net fluctuation induced text duplicate.

Edited August 30, 2014 by Do335

[Kyot54 2]

Do,

Have you read "Scream of Eagles" by Robert Wilcox about the establishment of Topgun by the Navy? They found that down low (under10k) the phantom could turn pretty decent at combat weight. It's just that you couldn't turn with a MiG, at least under 450 knots. Above that the Phantom could outturn the -17 at least, thanks to hydraulic boosted controls. Duke Cunningham used this to his advantage for two of his MiG kills on May 10th '72. If I remember, all the Navy Phantoms were hardwing until after Linebacker was already over, please feel free to correct me on that if I'm wrong. Keeping up over 450 kias also helped prevent some of the stall problems, since you were getting plenty of airflow over the wing.

[Kyot54 2]

Quick P.S. : most of the USAF (and early Navy) air to air losses in Vietnam had more to do with inflight "policies" than anything else: Using the same routes into the North day in and day out, only the flight lead doing the attacking, using intercept tactics (mostly Navy F-4s here). One of the things Topgun did more than just introduce dedicated DACT, was to stress the "loose deuce" policy that had helped the Crusader community achieve a 6(+)-1 kill ratio while everyone else was languishing at 2 to 1. While DACT is awesome, once you get past the 1 V 1 scenario, flight and element tactics play just as crucial a role to success. That's where the Air Force Phantoms were really falling short.   

[+daddyairplanes 10,235]

Kyot, the only slatted Navy Phantoms were the S's, introduced in 1978-79 and mostly going to the Marines at that. Naval reserves used the S from 83-86 and VF-151 and 161 used them. VF-21 and 154 flew the S for one year but the N was found to handle better around the Coral Sea.

Do, the Phantom never was the best at anything it did. It strength was its ability to do anything asked of it (intercept, cas, strike, SEAD, recce, CAP) and its literal strength that brought many a crew home where other planes would be lost.

Just a historical two cents to throw in.

Edited August 30, 2014 by daddyairplanes

[Do335 382]

Do,

Have you read "Scream of Eagles" by Robert Wilcox about the establishment of Topgun by the Navy? They found that down low (under10k) the phantom could turn pretty decent at combat weight. It's just that you couldn't turn with a MiG, at least under 450 knots. Above that the Phantom could outturn the -17 at least, thanks to hydraulic boosted controls. Duke Cunningham used this to his advantage for two of his MiG kills on May 10th '72. If I remember, all the Navy Phantoms were hardwing until after Linebacker was already over, please feel free to correct me on that if I'm wrong. Keeping up over 450 kias also helped prevent some of the stall problems, since you were getting plenty of airflow over the wing.

Oh yeah, notice the mig-17 dubbed "ufo" in my report. caesar mentioned this a few posts back and evidently, the mig17 made by thirdwire has no problems turning at 450+.

 

 

 

one last vid... this is a campaign flight, but i thought... hey it's what dacts are for so why not. I was tuning the landing speeds in the fm so AIs could properly land themsevles and this was only a test flight. But it got exciting and decided to film it. We were doing a sweep northwest of wonsan, about to go home and things went for the worse. being an actual mission the flight has more to do with incomplete info, mutual support (or saving wingies) and fuel ammo considerations. I illustrated the different situations with subs and pics, so will save the wall of text here!

 

Edited August 30, 2014 by Do335

[Kyot54 2]

dad, roger that on the slatted Navy/Marine Phantoms, thanks

 

    Took a J Phantom against a -17 1 v1 earlier, because even though I've fought them countless times in Campaign/Missions, never really gone 1 v 1. It was mostly some of the same ol' same ol' until I was finally able to lure him into following me into the vertical, having him run out of juice and then reversing down on him, but I miss timed it the first time and overshot. Second time was a charm, mile and a half out front, low, Winder zapped him real good.

 

    Sorry I don't have more screenshots, I need to work on working that into a fight more. That being said, what app do y'all use to video tape the engagements?

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  Peace, J

[cougar_1979 37]

Sairsan, considering the tendency of the bandit to bug out..... when you make the custom mission, do you set yourself as his target? And his mission to fighter sweep? Also what is the enemy difficulty level of you fly at? In my limited experience it seams that in order to make sure the bandit engages you, you need to make sure he is commited to the merge. And sometimes when you go vetical right after the first pass, the AI either loses sight of you and "bugs out" or loses interest in you and dashes off with its mission.

Do335, your dealings with the 17 in a hard winged F-4 are very close to my own. I had 6 separate engagents in an F-4J VS a MiG-17C, all of them guns only (me with a Mk IV pod), starting level at angels 15, 15nm from eachother in neutral position. I have fought 17's in NAVY Phantoms before but never with the pod alone. And this was tedious. 2 times he nailed me, while i was trying to turn with him in an energy egg. 2 times we ran out of fuel. 2 times i  shot him down. I don't consider any of these flight worthy of recording as i am just noot good enough in them to demonstrate anything done right. The thing is even my 2 victories ere more or less luck. I shot the bandit from above but as such high aspect that these shots won't always work (i am talking 70-120 degrees deflection shots). With the pod on, the thing is very hard to maneuver even in a dive. I see now why most NAVY squadrons chose not to use the pods at all and just flew with the missiles. Not to mention the thing jammed on me at 3 separate flights when i was trying to use it while pulling hard behind the bandit in a dive. And as i mentioned earlier i have went 3 to 1 (the bad way) in fighter sweeps with this plane before and won, it's just the guns that i can't use properly. I will try to fly more with it and see if i can improve. But just to illustrate.... i usually end up with an 8-10000ft advantage on any vertical maneuver..... and it's usually still not enough for me to get a nose on a floating 17 bellow before the things just get out of the way or starts climbing on its own. I need much more practice.

[Do335 382]

Do335, your dealings with the 17 in a hard winged F-4 are very close to my own. I had 6 separate engagents in an F-4J VS a MiG-17C, all of them guns only (me with a Mk IV pod), starting level at angels 15, 15nm from eachother in neutral position. I have fought 17's in NAVY Phantoms before but never with the pod alone. And this was tedious. 2 times he nailed me, while i was trying to turn with him in an energy egg. 2 times we ran out of fuel. 2 times i  shot him down. I don't consider any of these flight worthy of recording as i am just noot good enough in them to demonstrate anything done right. The thing is even my 2 victories ere more or less luck. I shot the bandit from above but as such high aspect that these shots won't always work (i am talking 70-120 degrees deflection shots). With the pod on, the thing is very hard to maneuver even in a dive. I see now why most NAVY squadrons chose not to use the pods at all and just flew with the missiles. Not to mention the thing jammed on me at 3 separate flights when i was trying to use it while pulling hard behind the bandit in a dive. And as i mentioned earlier i have went 3 to 1 (the bad way) in fighter sweeps with this plane before and won, it's just the guns that i can't use properly. I will try to fly more with it and see if i can improve. But just to illustrate.... i usually end up with an 8-10000ft advantage on any vertical maneuver..... and it's usually still not enough for me to get a nose on a floating 17 bellow before the things just get out of the way or starts climbing on its own. I need much more practice.

bloody hell... yes it was. I think at the end of day i'll take a D/H/G winder and just shoot him to save all that trouble. The gunpod weighs almost like a mk84 2000 pounder and is twice as draggy. in campaign mode you can use it to get some opportunity kills but in 1 v 1 where he's always got eye on you... it's pretty hard. what's worse is the gunpod is declined 2 degrees below the nose to facilitate ground strafing, but in a2a it's a hindrance. iirc the eagle as an air dominance fighter has the gun inclined upwards even.

[saisran 84]

Sairsan, considering the tendency of the bandit to bug out..... when you make the custom mission, do you set yourself as his target? And his mission to fighter sweep? Also what is the enemy difficulty level of you fly at? In my limited experience it seams that in order to make sure the bandit engages you, you need to make sure he is commited to the merge. And sometimes when you go vetical right after the first pass, the AI either loses sight of you and "bugs out" or loses interest in you and dashes off with its mission.

 

 

 

Thanks for the tip cougar. I just edited the Phantom vs Mig engagements that came in the game. I think i tasked them for an intercept. Ill have to check. and maybe check on the way points if they are corect. thanks

 

Do335. Great vid Do. love the way you fight. FPS145. I really should build a gaming pc for when i'm home.

[saisran 84]

I really love the Fury but nothing beats being in the driver seat of the Mighty Tomcat! per Cougar's advise, i changed the mission type from Intercept to Fighter Sweep and sure enough the flanker did the musical chair dance. I wasnt able to record the good fight though.

 

First engagement F-14B Tomcat vs SU-33 Sea Flanker. Spotted the flanker about 10Nm away at 1000ft low at about 450K. Climbed  down and matched his speed and angels for a fair fight. He went for a head to head and i obliged. No one was able to hit anything. Burners to full and climbed> Flanker did the same for a bit, turned his nose towards my direction so i did the same. we passed each other on the down slope. I went back up while he turned low. I looped the tomcat round and he passed me on the way up. Were both in neutral positions. we repeated the process 3x more until i was able to dive down behind me while he was trying to gain more energy. He took a left hand turn and i followed we did a couple of circles coming from 500K to 300k. once we went below 300 the flanker started get away. i fulled a bit more tighter and allowed the tomcat to bleed energy until i was able to bring down the Flaps. sure enough as i down the Flaps on take off settings the tomcat nose began pointing inside the flankers flight path. He speed up to the 300 range and edge away from the sights a bit. Drop the  flaps a bit more. the tomcat seems to find an updraft and was turning inside the Flanker even as i ease on the stick. The tomcat turned sharper and gained a bit more energy enough to close the gap for me to fill the front panel full of flanker. Trigger down and the sea flanker sunk into the dessert in a fireball.

 

Second engagement is on the vid. I cheated and rushed to the merged. gained an advantage earlty on. eager to quickly end the fight, my bad habit of shooting too early cam out ( sorry cougar). Still a quick enough engagement that allowed for a quick upload.

 

[Do335 382]

@saisran thanks. the sabre is such a joy to fly. i believe the Fury is using the same flight model.

Getting busy with RL again. will be back. Keep up the reports!