SF2 Series DACT Reports And Related A2A Discussions (Game only)

[Caesar 305]

Cougar,

 

Not sure about the cannons part, but there's a Sea Harrier in the downloads section:

 

http://combatace.com/files/file/12956-sea-harrier-frs2/

[Kyot54 2]

Wow. Great input guys! lovely reading. sorry about the gun data. i forgot i made a copy of the vulcan to make some rate of fire experiments (i was trying to make a laser).

 

I really thought i got the answer with the raptor. Much heavier than the GodCat but with a lot more thrust. The only thing wrong with the raptor is that it files like a computerized brick compensated with insane amount of thrust. No recordings or screenshot as i was too busy trying to stay alive. flying below 300KIAS didn't work and i was only able to stay alive by flying fast However, the GodCat was behind me all the time. The fight ended up in a draw. with him running out of bullets and bugging out and with me running out of gas to try anything. I was forced to make a crash landing near some friendly AAA installations while he cruised home frustrated by not getting one more kill. In the end i'm stranded in the middle of the dessert while they are drinking beer and taking a shower at their base. 

 

     Saisran, You should check the stats on whatever version of the Raptor you are using. Mine is the one from the Operation Darius download, and like the Super Hornet pack, the fuel load was way off. Raptors carry just under 20k internally, something like 18,900 give or take. Before fixing it, the version I was flying started out with close to 36,000lbs. Believe you me, that extra 9 tons makes a lot of difference. no matter how much thrust a bird has.

 

     I re-learned a valuable lesson tonight going 1v1 against the Super Bug: there is a time to have your head outside the cockpit, and a time not to. I was having a lot of trouble maintaining my energy until I took a moment and padlocked on the HUD to pay attention to converting airspeed to degrees per second sustained turn rate. Before that I was always inside his turn, nose almost on but not good enough and turning to tight for a good missile shot. He'd be at about 350kts and I'd bounce up and down between 220-340. We'd just end up going around and around. Once I started checking that my turn rate was just enough to allow me to accelerate in burner and have a good degree per second return, next thing you know I'm on his tail and pulling for a guns kill. Lesson here boys and girls, sometimes you have to stick to what your bird does best and not worry about what the other guy is doing. As long as he is in front of you that is, lol.

[saisran 84]

Great Reading guys. I will do my best to implement them on my next fights. Although i am happy to report that i finally found success against the GodCat. I was thinking. if my skills aren't up to par. surely there is something out there that could compensate for my lack of it. The flankers are out of the question as i keep on stalling them. The hornet and i just wont gel, the eagle was great but not enough and i always ended up tearing the wings off the viper. so what's next?  The answer was the next generation fighter that is supposed to replace all of the fourth gen fighters and even the raptor itself.,, The F-35A Lightning II. (A model carry and internal gun)

 

 

As it turns out, the F-35 Mod for the game is a bit of a UFO. Hardly make a sound and flies like your on easy FM all the time. Doesn't accelerate that quickly but it can handle a turn from 280 to 380 KIAS quite well. And since it isn't fidgety, gunnery was quite easy.

 

First fight. I was trying to do keep to stay fast tactics. and kept my speed well above 350 KIAS. and even flew in the region of 400 to 500KIAs. But the GodCat was behind my tail all the time. and after about 8 mins in the circle i lost patience and went for a split s. this put me at about even on his left and i kept turning tighter at around 300 KIAS. To my surprise this placed me behind his 3/9 line i kept pushing and soon enough i have lead. After three failed attempts and about 3000lbs of fuel i got lead and pulled the trigger for about 1.5 secs. I got the tracers on the GodCat but it kept flying Reset and go on. I was able to get another lead on the cat and as he punched the cans to accelerate fire came out the back. He cut engine but the flames just grew and he exploded.

 

The second engagement was over in three minutes. Accelerated at up to mach 1.11 at the merge. and turned tightly bleeding speed off until im turning with him at around 330KIAs. I played at the sustained speed of around 290 upto 330KIas sometimes going a bit slower or faster. I got closer and i got lead. a short burst took out the right engine. He tried to correct himself but lost control and plunged. I guess having an asymmetric thrust from those powerful engine is too much for an AI to handle.

[cougar_1979 37]

Cougar,

 

Not sure about the cannons part, but there's a Sea Harrier in the downloads section:

 

http://combatace.com/files/file/12956-sea-harrier-frs2/

Thanks mate! I'll look e'm up.

[macelena 1,070]

Been trying a bit the stock Meteor F8, after i was surprised about how it fared better than i expected in single missions in the Sinai 1956 timeframe. Just for poo and giggles, i started a rolling thunder campaign with them, and while obsolete, it is still better than i expected. After an Strike mission, i managed to shoot down two MiG-17s, only that i just jumped on them from higher altitude and faster while they were chasing some Skyhawks. They were elusive, but i could even beat one of them in a rolling scissors with plenty of rudder and throotle play. 

 

While it remains quite new for me, so i can´t put a scientific verdict about the type, the general conclusion i´m having lately is that knowing your aircraft, thier aircraft, and being an opportunistic and treacherous cheat is the way for a(many) kill(s). I wonder how much the semantics may affect the mindset, but if instead of using the fighters for "fighting" you use them for "hunting" (as they are known in many non english languages) you can achieve much more success than you would have been advertised. But for that, situational awareness becomes paramount.

 

Many underdog types i had seen as almost useless against their contemporaries (Meteor, Super Sabre, et cetera) can be much more effective than expected if you think like a hunter, instead of like a boxer. 

 

EDIT: Pic of the mentioned encounter over Vietnam

 

Edited September 23, 2014 by macelena

[macelena 1,070]

Just went and tried on a single mission fighter sweep. 2xMeteor F8 vs 2xMiG-17F, near Diem Bien Phu.

 

We started at 16000ft, with the bad guys at 11000ft, we were at their 9 o clock. I dove into one of them, while i let the other one pass me head on guns blazing to engage my wingman in the upper level. My target tried to extend on AB, but i gained a lot of speed while diving, so much that it took a generous and carefully led burst with deflection to take him out before getting me to overshoot.  

 

The second one then was chasing my wingman, and i tried to take the chance (Yeah, i know, using your wingmen as bait is unfair, but the way i see it, i´m just saving them) to kill him while he was busy, however i had exhausted my speed after turning and climbing back into them and was barely doing 300 knots while they were almost at 400. I told my wingman to break, and he acted as a genius, as he didn´t only turn into the bandit but also hit the brakes, thus forcing the enemy to slow down too (One of the advantages of attacking somebody who is chasing your flightmates is that, despite hacing a superior aircraft, they are bound to the movements of their prey, wich is as mediocre as yours. Also you can lead them much more easily by following your wingman, as anywhere he is going, the bad guy is following a few seconds later, a seconds you scratch on your advantage) and took the shot.

 

The second MiG crashed at the edge of an airfield, so i decided not to waste the trip and strafed the Bar Lock radar and a ZSU-57-2 

 

Edited September 24, 2014 by macelena

[saisran 84]

Nice reading Macelena. That's what i would call fighting smart. :)

[macelena 1,070]

Now that i think of it, i forgot to change the AI to expert, so both accounts were against "poor" pilots, the first mig in the last dogfight acted kind of dumb, he extended when i had the height advantage when he could have just turned into me, and he turned later when he was started to gain speed ahead of me, will have to try again

 

EDIT: Nevermind, it was Average for VPAF. 

Edited September 24, 2014 by macelena

[macelena 1,070]

I tried again, dogfight near Vinh or around. 2x Mexican Air Force Meteors (I got a very Mexican day, will talk later) vs 2 VPAF MiG-17F

 

This one was harder. I set them to excellent, had less altitude difference (21k Ft vs 18k Ft) and climbing there left me at barely 200 knots, while they were doing 270. Despite the increase in the level, the AI did some dumb things like the last time, but they got behind us several times. I had to turn hard and brake for one of them to overshoot me, and they used their speed much better, so i had to lead pursuit them. Managed one kill while the other fled the scene faster than i could chase him.

 

While the obsolescence of the Meteor became much more apparent in this fight, i still think it is a much more capable fighter ingame than it apparently was in real life.

 

Mexican kills a "Bandido"

 

[Do335 382]

macelena, way to pimp up the old relic, never flew much of it but suspect it can turn on a dime. if only there's a me262!

[cougar_1979 37]

After experimenting with the Falklands campaign for several days (and it still crashes sometimes during the loading of the weapons screen) i finally got to fly some CAPs and fighter sweeps. The fighter sweep wasn't really worth uploading, 4 on 4, Harriers VS A-4's and it ended uneventful. But my CAP was a novelty. The random seed decided it should be a night fligh and never had those so far, except one at my very first days in the SF2NA.

We started off more then 25nm apart at angels 10. The GC called bogies at 12 'o clock and i picked them up on radar soon enough. We were a 4 ship formation, packing 2 Limas each and some fuel tank. I gave the element leader the order to attack air and proceeded on an intercept course. As this was my first night op, i decided not to wait for a merge and try to get an early IR lock from a forward aspect so i switched to missiles while still BVR. The fact that GC called bandits and clear to engage, minimised the chance for a blue on blue.  At 15nm i ordered my wingman to drop the tanks. At 7nm i got a tone in my headset and at 6nm i went for my first FOX 2. At 4hm, while missile no1 was still on its way, the seaker picked up another signature, and at 3nm i went for another FOX 2. Just then i got the first splash. A Mirage III it turnes out, as we go into visual range. Few second more and it's another splash. The element leader launches a FOX 2 as well. Just as i see the first afterburner plume infornt of me i get i missile warning and break left, kicking flairs. Element leader launches the 2nd FOX 2 and is winchester but it's splash 3. #4 goes for FOX 2 and soon enough it's splash 4. Meanwhile i pick up a contact on my radar, right aheadand it's another Mirage. As i move in for a gun kill, i make an aweful overshoot. In the dark i have a very poor estimation skills and i will struggle with my gun kills for the entire flight. It turns out, i was going for an allready hit Mirage that was loosing altitude fast. I think i should call it a night and go home, so i order rejoin of both elements.

As i set up for a course home, i get a radar contact some 20nm away, dead ahead. This being a sim and not a real life, i decide to play cocky and incestigate. At 3nm we get a visual, it's another flight of Mirage IIIs. I order my entire flight to engage and move in for the merge. Missiles start zipping in the dark and as i kick flares i pass one of the Mirages at point blank range. Finishing my right defensive break, then reversing into a lefthand sustained turn to reengage. Wingman launches FOX 2 and goes winchester. It's splash 5. I order gun attack and proceed to close in with the bandits. Switching to guns, radar in air combat mode. This time i try not to overshoot, which leads to me taking some silly long range snap shot that have no chance of connecting what so ever. I throttle up and move in closer as something flies right by me and i hear a missile warning. I pull some lead, open fire, and it's splash 6. #3 goes out of ammo. I sweep right to find another bandit. At 4 'o clock i pick up 2 contacts and lock on to one of them. It turnes out i locked in a friendly, as the right one is a Mirage, hot on his tail. Going after them i must have picked up a bandit on my own tail as well. I go into a hard left hand turn, trying to stay with them, when i hear a missile launch. I think it's on me, so i start releasing flares, but i'm out. Time to pray and hope the break will help me evade. Turns out it's the other Mirage, shooting at #3. And #3 is down! That break seams to have lost the bandit on my tail, so lock the throttle in full power again and go after the bandit ahead of me. As i close in i start taking snap shots, but in the dark it's a total mess. Not until i see the hot exhaust point right ahead, do i score a hit. Splash 7. In the meantime, someone must have got the 8th bandit as there are no longer any contacts in the air. End resault, 8 bandits down, 1 Harrier lost.

Lesson learned....i don't want to fight in the dark. I t sure looks pretty, especially when the AAA's light up the sky, or you see burner plumes streaing at trans sonic speeds all over the place, but ut's just too claustrophobic for my taste. And without a radar, it's almost impossible to sort out and spot the enemies.

[macelena 1,070]

Another Meteor vs Fresco pair duel over Vietnam. This time they jumped on us from 6 or 7 o clock high, while i instinctively started to dive, it was clear that i wouldn´t outrun them in any way, so i turned trying to force the overshoot, and the furball began much more confusing than the other times in wich i had the iniciative. I manage to spray one when we entered scissors, then stalled when the other guy got himself on my tail. He forgot about me after following my spin and rushed to the other Meteor. I chased them but my wingman got downed dramatically just before i caught up with them. Having exhausted his energy, the last mig was an easy pery after all. 

 

Btw, while Israeli Blue camo is awesome,  Syrian Camo fits both the Mex Air Force and SEA quite good

 

[Do335 382]

i don't want to fight in the dark

 

 

strongly agree, even weathers with con layers i'm reluctant to take. one is it divides the usable altitude block in 2, another is sometimes a bandit will just stay in the soup forever, 30 minutes later you finally got him but all the other migs have left the party!

 

p.s. just found that clouds will restrict AI's LOS, well done TK...

[Do335 382]

Another Meteor vs Fresco pair duel over Vietnam.

 

Ok the meteor got my interest. Took it up against fagots. Wow this thing handles extremely well, the rolls are ultra crisp and doesn't bleed much at all in turns. The quad 20mil are deadly as usual. The uprated engines since ww2 doesn't lack thrust either. Merged at about 20k ft and all there's to do was turn with the swept winged migs and the AI obliged easily. At the end I only got one of them, the rest are all finished off by my wingies! Then another pair of migs joined the fray, they managed to get behind no.4, but was quickly dispatched by myself and no.3.

 

As a turn fighter this thing seems extremely dangerous in AI's hands. If only its speed is not capped at mach .8 due to the straight wings...

 

[macelena 1,070]

Well, it can´t (or shouldn´t) turn as tight as a MiG-15, and of course it doesn´t accelerate as fast, but even if you are not using a wingman as bait, you can keep an horizontal fight and wait until it unloads eventually as it bleeds faster than you. You have an small window of time to get him before he builds speed again, but it gets harder from MiG-15bis to Fresco-A and then Cs (afterburning)

[Do335 382]

(afterburning)

bah! that changes things...

[Caesar 305]

Great reports, folks!  Nice to see the variety of aircraft!

[cougar_1979 37]

Do335 and macalena, how would you describe the handling characteristics of the Meteor? I have never flown an ealry 1st generation jet, except for a Me262 and IL-2, but compared to all the piston engined AC there, the thing was really "heavy" behind the stick and you had to use it for zoom and boom almost exclusively.

No DACT report for today, i only had some stick control workouts, flying the F-14B against the GodCat. One thing i noticed (besides the fact the radar just won't pick him up in a hard turn, so you have to gun him down almost entirely by eyeball) is that this Tomcat burns through the fuel tanks in no time when you use AB in aboundance! Weren't the GE's supposed to be more efficient when in AB then the P&W's? Or was it the other way around? 

[Caesar 305]

The GE's could provide more power at lower throttle settings, so in Mil power they were outputting similar power to a TF-30 in Zone 3.  That's where the higher endurance comes from.  That being said, if memory serves the GE engines were actually less efficient than the TF-30's at equivalent throttle settings.  As such, you'll burn more gas more quickly with the GE's in max AB or Mil power than you would the PW's set to the same.

[Do335 382]

cougar, it does feel kinda heavy come to think of it, admittedly i've not got proficient enough in it to say about tactics, but it seems to hold itself well enough against AI fagots defensively at least..

[macelena 1,070]

It is heavy, and underpowered when compared to any MiG-15/17, however, it is quite gentle at handling. Reminds me of Hunters vs MiG-19s.

 

 

[cougar_1979 37]

The GE's could provide more power at lower throttle settings, so in Mil power they were outputting similar power to a TF-30 in Zone 3.  That's where the higher endurance comes from.  That being said, if memory serves the GE engines were actually less efficient than the TF-30's at equivalent throttle settings.  As such, you'll burn more gas more quickly with the GE's in max AB or Mil power than you would the PW's set to the same.

 

 

cougar, it does feel kinda heavy come to think of it, admittedly i've not got proficient enough in it to say about tactics, but it seems to hold itself well enough against AI fagots defensively at least..

 

 

It is heavy, and underpowered when compared to any MiG-15/17, however, it is quite gentle at handling. Reminds me of Hunters vs MiG-19s.

 

 

Thanks for the input guys!

[cougar_1979 37]

It's been a busy week at work, and what little time i had i used on my F-14A flight model, but today i felt a need for some retro ACM and decided to kick in a random fighter sweep involving the F-86. As i don't have a Korea maps installed i went for early 50's central Europe. The random number generator gave me 8 Sabers, agains what turned out to be 8 bandits. As i was flying for the pure joy of it, there were no clear objectives and thus no real report to be had. The video starts several minute into the mission as our flight gets jumped by 4 Lavochkin-11's. I felt like being a Me262 all over again, bouncing the poor props using my superior performance. When all of a sudden, one of my squadron got shot! And there they were, 4 MiG-15's flashing in the clear sky. They came to the rescue, and got one of us unaware, but alas, they payed for it dearly. I was expecting a tougher oposition, but as this was a random mission, maybe their pilots were green...... We dispached the 4 Migs relatively easy. Lots of oblique turns to keep the energy advantage and some good old mark I eyeball targeting.

Not too many things to bring home from this one....except for 2. For 1, these old Sabers are a real joy to fly. Keep cool, smooth control and movement of your stick and they fly like magic. Easy, light and articulated. I found no vices what so ever. For 2......God bless the lead-computing gunsights! I don't care what kind of tech they use, having one of those, no matter how precise they are, goes a long way to giving you those gun kills! How you like it guys, here is the vid:

[Do335 382]

not too shabby at all cougar, welcome to the early jet age:)
reckon you're flying on top of NF5, highly reco the '53 red torch campaign, it's very intense and challenging

Edited October 5, 2014 by Do335

[cougar_1979 37]

Indeed, i run the NF5 mostly. It's one of the 4 mods i have installed. When i made my HD partitions 2 years ago, i didn't forsee i may run out of HD space on my system partition. So i can't install more even if a wanted too.

Thanks for the recomednation, i will try it (the campaign) as soon as i have more free time.
Happy flying!