SF2 Series DACT Reports And Related A2A Discussions (Game only)

[Caesar 305]

Well, it's kind of hard to say, because the actual RMax of Phoenix is still classified, the D-AMRAAM is still fairly new (OT phase), and as recently as July 2012, they were still running into problems with the motor (Raytheon). Using open-source, the A model Phoenix was fired at a target 110NM away, the crew began tracking their target at 132NM while in TWS (Gillcrist). Something else to note, however, is that the missile only traveled 72NM from its firing point, due to closure rate (i.e. the drone kept forward velocity towards the missile, resulting in a shorter necessary travel distance). The drone was jamming at the time.

 

These things being said, I actually hope the D-AMRAAM does outrange Phoenix, or works its way to outrange Phoenix, because Phoenix is both retired, and over 50 years old! I'd assume the latest mark of a newer missile which has the express purpose of being very long range can beat the old benchmark. Not that the C-7's current max range is anything to sneeze at...

Edited January 22, 2013 by Caesar

[+EricJ 3,952]

I hope so too, in the sense that more modern aircraft can carry quite a bit compared to the massive size of the Pheonix. Ahhh how tech evolves...

[+EricJ 3,952]

Me: F/A-18F with (at that moment) 1 x GBU-32, tank, 1 x AIM-120D, gun

Opposition: Chengdu J-7II with two Atoll missiles

 

Decided to check out the new Israel map with a strike mission, and after dropping ordnance on the target and after killing two J-7s (got lost in the details, literally got bounced by them...) with 9X kills, I had one left who... if he had better missiles would have had me dead to rights, and well... he did. But since I had an AMRAAM left I had to go close quarters with him, and basically a refresher on the AMRAAM kill technique. I locked him up and to the pilot's credit, turned inside of me and shot past me on my right, and slowly developed into a rather short energy circle and after a little bit (a few seconds maybe) he settled out and I killed him with my last AMRAAM, making Ace (again) on one mission (two had been killed earlier with AMRAAMs and the two prior by 9Xs).

 

Takeaways: If you're down to your last missile dumb down your radar to the shortest range possible, and if you got a lock, wait until the target is "stable" in your HUD before taking a shot or you may lose him. I never try energy circle shots as the target is moving too fast across your HUD and that means your missile won't track (unless you pull hard and use it to intercept, results may vary). Also to be more situationally aware too...

[saisran 84]

Thanks for the info guys, and with the advancement in radar tech(AESA). Its only a matter of time until a new radar half the size of the one in tomcat provides twice the range and hopefully with a multi-track function as well. i just wish they could design a plane that looks as good as Tom Cruise.

[+EricJ 3,952]

And unfortunately the Tomcat needs a good benign environment for strike missions, CAS as well. Matter of fact the A,B,Ds should have Strike and CAS as roles as well.

[Caesar 305]

Not sure what you mean by "benign"? The F-14's in the Super Pack all have strike capability, check all the F-14x_96 birds and you should have Strike and Recon options. I don't think we gave it CAS, even though the bird did do the CAS mission, though I can't remember why? Might be worth adding, but it might have more to do with the F-14's loadouts. It was able to carry smaller bombs and of course had its 20mm Vulcan, but didn't operationally carry rockets, Maverick missiles, etc, typically used in the CAS role.

[+EricJ 3,952]

OEF it did CAS missions all the time and probably some strike missions.

[Caesar 305]

Worth adding, then, 'cause it certainly did do those missions, and to excellent effect. I don't know why we never added it. Not sure when the next update will be, though.

[+EricJ 3,952]

Okay well I did it myself

 

PrimaryRoles=SWEEP,CAP,INTERCEPT,STRIKE,CAS,ESCORT

SecondaryRoles=RECON

Edited January 23, 2013 by EricJ

[saisran 84]

Here's//www.anft.net/f-14/f14-history-combat-01.htm

 

Heres some reading on the F-14. Some reports on strike mission possibly

[+EricJ 3,952]

Well that pretty much clarifies that...

[+EricJ 3,952]

Me: F/A-18F with 4 x AIM-9X, 6 x AIM-120D, gun, tank

Opposition: F-5N Tiger II with two L/M winders, guns

 

Started behind him and... nearly ran over him as well but pulled out of it and entered a few energy circles and after a few attempts... couldn't shake him out of it. I tried to lob the missile ahead of him, thinking "easy kill" but was defeated by maneuver and flares (though he was still in the circle so more by maneuver) and after another energy circle he got progressively lower. I thought at first he'd run into the ground but he pulled up and since I was turning into him and took the shot after realizing he was in a better position for me to shoot. Another 9X and it eventually got him.

 

Takeaways. First is the first screenshot, and the point against the Tiger II is where is he? By logic he's in the middle of the screen so even with padlock its still hard to get a clear bead on where he is. Second was the lobbing of the missile. It was a risky shot and I had to try and take it. Other, slower and heavier planes you may get lucky but the energy level on the Tiger II is very high, and the first thing you should plan for is the energy circle if you're heavier. And the last piece is analyzing fighter behavior. Naturally (unless you're a kamikaze) you'd avoid the terrain. The Tiger II pilot did so and I used that to get my shot in.

[+EricJ 3,952]

Me: F/A-18F with 4 x AIM-9X, 6 x AIM-120D, gun, tank

Opposition: Mig-29K with 4 x R-73 and 4 x R-77, gun

 

Fight started out (like others) with me on his tail, and once he recognized me, tried to shake me until I got a little bored and let him come at me. Once he bit the TIE fighter (though it stunk common Fulcrum) FM came about and he managed to lock me up for a bit (enough to take a shot) but he didn't fire (at least I'm aware of anyway). But after a lengthy energy circle he managed to lose energy and try to outrun me again, so I took pity on him and smoked him with a 9X. It took him a few minutes for him to "die" (so I could get a mission success) but otherwise the lack of rearward vision... got him.

 

Takeaways: I don't want to say the FM is bad, or worse, but it is characteristic of a typical Mig-29. Unfortunately the K should be slightly heavier but overall a tough opponent so far.

[+EricJ 3,952]

Me: Mig-29K with 4 x R-73, 4 x R-74EM, gun

Opposition: F/A-18C (92) with two AIM-9Ms and 4 x Sparrows, gun (Current Download)

 

At the merge it took the... enemy to finally bite. On my first try I got him to bite, but G-Loc (more discussed later) forced me to dart into the ground, not good.

 

The second try took me a few (more like 6 to 7) minutes to get the Amerikanski to finally dogfight... and it was pretty exhilirating but I ended up in his sights and I managed to go vertical and dodge two AIM-9Ms (I think it was flares as I was too easy to pick off) and came out of the vertical and managed to get the Hornet to maneuver for I would say an R-73 shot and it missed mainly due to maneuvering though flares would have helped this missile launch. He managed to level off and the cursed thing missed (another R-73) and then I fired an R-74, and it missed! So the Hornet driver leveled out and I sent another R-74 up his tailpipe, killing him.

 

Takeaways: G-LOC is a primary concern with this beta FM unfortunately, something experienced with the Rafale as well. Unfortunately the Hornet isn't a laughing matter so you'll probably black out and somehow get out of it (matter of fact i blacked out going vertical and had to use externals to wonder which direction I was going) or plow into the terrain. Sooo... When the FM gets tweaked and bettered I'll have a go at it, but don't get into ACM too much though... Otherwise it is a nice jet...

[saisran 84]

Does this count as DACT?

 

Me: Mig-29K with 4x R-73 vs AGM-88C Harpoon (a couple of them)

 

Tried out the Mig-29K i DL'd yesterday. Jumped in a quick mission but unfortunately it was an intercept of Intruders with harpoons slung underneath and no Air to air weapon. The mission ended up in a race to shoot down the intruders before they get the ASM off. got a couple but half of he squad got to fire their ASM... here began a high speed chase. 100 ft on the deck going a Mach 1.1 in an effort to save homebase.

 

Luckily the harpoons ain't going mach11 like TK's other ASM but skimming the surface as published about mach 1. I chased after the group on full burners the Mig manages to reach mach 1.24 and i decided going any faster is more than what i can handle. still im faster than the harpoons and i closed in on the group. Eventually the ASM goes under the speed of sound and i position in for a kill. Almost hit the deck pulled up a bit, nosed down found a missile in the middle and squeezed the trigger... killing two harpoon and myself included.

 

 

So im not sure what happend but as soon as the ASM exploded my cockpit turned orange and my plane was onfire. I guess killing an ASM with guns isn't a good idea as the harpoon has a warhead for sinking ships and being behind it going mach 1.24 i flew right into its blast radius.

 

Next pic is what happened to our naval group.

 

[+EricJ 3,952]

Pretty damn good shooting... but Russian technical brochures (I want to say Kashtan, but some other system) say that 300m is... the blast radius for an ASM so when you shoot one down, you want to make sure it's shot before it gets to that point, and something you will now keep in mind

 

But I'll let that one slide though... can't deny somebody kudos for shooting a missile...

Edited January 27, 2013 by EricJ

[+EricJ 3,952]

Me: F/A-18D (92). 2 x AIM-9M, 2 x AIM-120, gun

Opposition: J-6 with guns

 

Honestly I thought the J-6 would be different but after a quick internet search the thing is basically a Chinese copy of the Mig-19 and so... things to be expected were the UFO like qualities of flight and other fun flying associated with one Mig-19. After flying around near aimlessly (once he sensed me he was all over me like flies on... yeah) and I managed to wear him out (and I was a bit out of energy. One thing that the J-6 can't do is a power climb, as it mainly stayed near the ground when I went vertical, came over the top and fired a 'winder, killing it.

 

Takeaways: The Mig-17/19/J-6 are all very good maneuverable aircraft and thinking because you have an advantage, and to some extent, you do. However, the thing is lethal and if he'd be quicker on the trigger he would have gutted me a couple times. Two is the hardest challenge as while you're dodging one the other is probably lining up on you for a gun shot. Kill it quickly and move on, if you have a missile shot.

Edited January 28, 2013 by EricJ

[Caesar 305]

Some general observations about the F-5N in AI hands; I brought an F-14A and an F-14B up against it, and wow can that sucker fly! It wasn't too difficult to get on the Tiger's tail, but gunning it was a pain. In general, the AI pilot was able to keep the bird in a between 5 and 13g turn (yes, 13g) in the 380KIAS range, with myself glued to it, flaps down, about 4.5g in the F-14A. It was kind of like an advantage energy circle to the deck, when he had to pull up and I was able to gun him there. In the F-14B, it took quite a bit less time, but the AI pilot pulled a brilliant maneuver to try to redirect himself as I was sweetening my guns solution. At about 2000 feet in trail, we're both climbing, and I'm gaining a bit. Suddenly, I see this thing pull hard back, rudder roll and snap the nose straight for the ground, and lo and behold he is diving away! The distance was too great for him to get away, all I had to do was put the Turkey Beast on its back and pull, but if I ever had to explain a maneuver where someone flies up their own (insert non-family-friendly term for tail end of body here), it was that maneuver. I couldn't believe it! I managed the gun kill this time during the energy circle, without so much alpha necessary, I was able to get a stream of bullets in front of him and shear off his left wing. Needless to say, it's an impressive little bird! I'll have to take it up myself...though I don't plan on pulsing 13g out of it a bunch of times.

 

EDIT: Brought it up against an F-15. It's a maneuverable little son of a gun to be sure! It seems more forgiving than the earlier FM, not as prone to departure. And man, can you snap the nose around! I'm liking it.

Edited January 28, 2013 by Caesar

[saisran 84]

Guess I'll have to ge

Some general observations about the F-5N in AI hands; I brought an F-14A and an F-14B up against it, and wow can that sucker fly! It wasn't too difficult to get on the Tiger's tail, but gunning it was a pain. In general, the AI pilot was able to keep the bird in a between 5 and 13g turn (yes, 13g) in the 380KIAS range, with myself glued to it, flaps down, about 4.5g in the F-14A. It was kind of like an advantage energy circle to the deck, when he had to pull up and I was able to gun him there. In the F-14B, it took quite a bit less time, but the AI pilot pulled a brilliant maneuver to try to redirect himself as I was sweetening my guns solution. At about 2000 feet in trail, we're both climbing, and I'm gaining a bit. Suddenly, I see this thing pull hard back, rudder roll and snap the nose straight for the ground, and lo and behold he is diving away! The distance was too great for him to get away, all I had to do was put the Turkey Beast on its back and pull, but if I ever had to explain a maneuver where someone flies up their own (insert non-family-friendly term for tail end of body here), it was that maneuver. I couldn't believe it! I managed the gun kill this time during the energy circle, without so much alpha necessary, I was able to get a stream of bullets in front of him and shear off his left wing. Needless to say, it's an impressive little bird! I'll have to take it up myself...though I don't plan on pulsing 13g out of it a bunch of times.

 

EDIT: Brought it up against an F-15. It's a maneuverable little son of a gun to be sure! It seems more forgiving than the earlier FM, not as prone to departure. And man, can you snap the nose around! I'm liking it.

 

Guess i'll have to get me that F-5N.

 

An unrelated question Caesar... Do we have a skin for the F-14D (159600) aka Christine? just read about the aircraft being the longest serving D.

[saisran 84]

Got the F-5N and took it for a quick mission quickly got intercepted by 4 F-16A Netz. A good opportuinity to test the tigers on something with comparable role. so 4 F-5N with 2x AIM9L each vs 4 F-16A with 4x Winders each. Alerted by the AEW on bandits postion we quickly spotted the Vipers. I thought I'll let my squad hang back tried to get 2 quick kills with the heaters while buying for a gun solution as i order the rest of the squad to chase down the remaining viper...

 

But, as it turns out you CAN'T play around with a viper and expect not to get bit. Face shot on one of the vipers which hit but only after he and his buddies got their winders out as well. With all the "I'm hit, I'm taking damage" calls... i'm not sure if any of my wingmen survived. actually i couldn't care less as i got a viper in front and another on my tail. the Viper as always turns quite well and happily so does the tiger. 400 kts circle bled down to 300+. got inside I assumed he'll reverse his turn so i leveled my wing and he did as i thought. fired my last AIM-9L and it hit. But i forgot about the viper on my tail. Missile warning called on me. I inverted my plane and pulled down hard to the deck dumping every flare and chaffs i got to no avail. the missile flew into and through my left stab and took it out. My plane didn't go into flames as the missile didn't explode(weird) but i'm roller coasting and viper's still at my six. Thankfully 4 is still alive and he took it out the remaining viper high tailed out of the fight and 4 and i left him alone. thankfully i managed to regain control of the F-5 by feeding it stick and some rudder. Max Mil power and climbed up to 480 knts at about 15Kft flew it all the way to a friendly airbase and tried to land there but at landing speed the F-5 is quite hard to control so i had to took it up again away from any infrastructure and bail.

 

The entire fight, from the first missile shot until the remaining viper disengage was quick. probably as fast as yo can read the above paragraph. In the end the tigers are very manoeuvrable and bleed a lot of energy quickly which is good for getting into position quicker than you're opponent but i think if the circle continued on in a long fight the viper will have an edge or his buddy on my six will get me which he did. Between the two fighters i'll probably pick the Viper to defend my airspace like the USAF did. but for joy riding its the F-5.

 

 

Btw, i'm not sure if that's how it's supposed to be but the damage on my Tiger II is on the left but im rolling to the right ain't it suppose to roll to the left as i lost a lift surface on my left tail and not on my right?

[+EricJ 3,952]

I had the same problem when I got smacked real hard during on Op. Darius strike mission, I lost my left stabilizer and was rolling to the right. I assume it's just the mass isn't there to balance the plane out.

 

And time dialation is still the weirdest experience

[saisran 84]

Round 2! 1V1 Guns only(thought i'm gonna run out of bullets r.al quick so decided to cheat and sling a gun pod, Bad decision)

 

Was feeling confident in the F-5N's dogfight ability so decided to take it against the Viper once more in the best dog fight terrain ever made. So I placed both fighter as close as possible on the front line as i didn't want a long flight. Decided to take a gun pod since i figured i'll be wasting a lot of ammo taking shot i thought i have and missing. As soon as i got the vipers position from AEW i head on full afterburners to try to make my tiger lighter thus having an advantage. the viper locked me up real quick. target view hes going mach 1 from 20Kft going in my direction burning fuel as well(AI's probably thinking what i'm thinkin) nose up on bandit from 10Kft going mach 1 as well. a few more target view and its clear that the viper is aiming for what im aiming as well. Head on shots as we pass at high speed. 1m distance trigger squeezed. tracers passing overhead followed by a blur which is the viper(real close). Turn left hard. as he does the same. the first one to get his nose on first have the advantage. Both of us got nose o at roughly the same time but i believe his much better at centering the T as he got a shot off as we passed and miss. This evolved into Several two circles(I think thats what its called: merged, extension, turn round again, merged, keep turning, nose on nose, reverse, nose on nose again). Both of us pointing his nose on the other almost the same time but the viper clearly get himself more readily than i am as i keep bleeding more energy than him. he's been able to keep his speed above 300 while i struggle to keep above 200kts. which forced me many times to level out and regain energy thus our one circle keeps evolving into two circles. I blame the Gunpod, the extra weight of the must must have offset the balance on the plane and the additional drag ain't helping either. At one point i found myself inside his turn but going 180 while hes going 300kts Plus so far our shots are only taken on short burst as we both only have a tiny window of opportunity.

 

at one point i was gaining on the viper but a quick view of a wall forced me to climbed up and out. Guess he's not turning so hard since he doesnt want to hit the wall. We merged again. this time i managed to get behind him a bit as i caught him flying under 300kts and i pulled hard inside his turn bleeding energy but turning much better and i managed to maintain the distance and our speed at under 250kts. this didn't went anywhere. so i pulled up gained some energy and climbed back down only to find him going up in my direction and sends tracers up my windshield. thankfully i'm unscathed and he lost a lot of energy doing it. Quickly got on his six preparing for another. but the Viper just kept on the Burners and flying straight nose down as if running. I got excited shot a long burst which misses. composed my self and tried again. this time hitting the Viper downing it.

 

So im nut sure if he run out of ammo or is just really low on fuel

 

This is not a place for a Split S

 

He and i traded a couple more shot than this

 

I had the same problem when I got smacked real hard during on Op. Darius strike mission, I lost my left stabilizer and was rolling to the right. I assume it's just the mass isn't there to balance the plane out.

 

And time dialation is still the weirdest experience

 

I didn't considered the weight. You're probably right.

[saisran 84]

Ok, Took the Viper this time VS the Tiger II. I have to apologise to the F-5N Tiger II for saying it bleeds energy too damn quick. As it turns out its just my stupid stickmanship that's the problem. once again i'm being hamfisted as the viper bleeds energy on my hands the same rate i did with the tiger II. adjust myself and was on the tail of the tiger II. Both planes are nearly equal in terms of performance but the SA in the viper is so much better. When i was on the F-5 the viper picked me out from way out even before i know where he is. On the viper i managed to position myself from behind the F-5's six and he wasnt even aware i was there until i turn on the radar behind him and warmed up the heaters. he went to the deck and was on the defensive the whole time. The AI wasn't being as agressive as he was when he's in the viper. but then again getting a gun solution on an F-5 isn't easy. it's such a hard task than i gave up and sent an AIM-9L instead.

[+EricJ 3,952]

That's how I approach more maneuverable fighters. Since I rarely make gun kills or unable to, going for the missile kill may take less time.

[+EricJ 3,952]

Me: F/A-18F with 4 x AIM-9X, 6 x AIM-120D, gun, tank

Opposition: Two F-5N Tiger IIs with 2 x AIM-9Ls, guns

 

This is NOT how you should fight the Tiger II, just so people get an idea of not playing dirty. Okay, same setup, I let the first jet go ahead while I picked up his wingman coming from behind. After some yo-yoing we get into some dizzying energy circles, he nearly plows into the ground, and well... it gets interesting. But while I'm playing with wingnut, lead is coming around and is setup and fires a winder at me. After praying and dropping some flares I managed to avoid it, fixated on No. 2. This is like the movie Top Gun... but I don't got no wingie, but remember, they talk to each other so while No.2 acts as bait, No. 1 is shooter and again, I go into a turn and I think either No. 2 crashed or got shot by the No.1's winder. Which brings me to another point, he fires again and misses, after some praying and flare ejection I managed to shake the second 'winder. So about this time where my original target was, and probably a funeral pyre, but I haven't realized, I'm the target now. After this the Tiger gets on my six, and it's only a matter of time as I go vertical and there he is, gunning me down...

 

Takeaways.... Target fixation, don't get tunnel vision and think you're always going to pull off a multiple engagement, especially when they're spread out like that. Pick them off one by one. There isn't anywhere (except in chivalry) that says you have to fight all at once. Instead (as you'll see in the next situation) reducing the odds in your favor is your pure intent.

Edited January 28, 2013 by EricJ