I'm starting to get much more realistic kill rates now

[Hellshade 110]

If you're like me and looking to make it even harder to shoot down aircraft, I highly recommend the following combination of mods and settings. HPW's Ultimate Damage Model 1.0 HPW's Allied & German FM 1.0. HPW's Front Guns and Rear Guns mods. Creaghorns Tracer Mod(s) and Dead is Dead settings, but with both Front and Rear Gun accuracy set to Less Accurate.

 

Here's how these settings and mods make it harder (notice I didn't say "more realistic", because that is a very subjective thing.)

 

HPWs Ultimate Damage Mod does a lot of stuff, but in a nutshell, it makes it so you need to hit vital areas of a plane in order to have any chance of shooting it down quickly. Engine, Pilot and Fuel tank. You can put lots of holes in wings and fuselage before it looses any real agility or suffers structural failure. With this mod, you can empty your guns into an enemy plane and it's still possible to come home empty handed.

 

HPW's Allied and German Flight Models just make some changes so that the enemy AI is less likely (it still happens but not as bad) to pull up into a climb and then just hang there as a sitting duck for your guns.

 

HPW's Front and Rear Gun mods reduce the accuracy of both the players and AI's front and rear guns. It makes attacking a 2 seater from behind a little less dangerous, but it also makes your bullet stream less accurate as well. You need to get closer in order for more of your bullets to hit their mark.

 

Creaghorns various Tracer / Smoke Trail mods replace the default tracers in OFF:BH&H with either thin white smoke trails or very small tracer rounds that are harder to see. It also removes the falling debris effects for when you hit the enemy, making it harder to see if your rounds are even hitting their target.

 

Creaghorns Sound Tweak II doesn't have anything to do with making it hard to shoot down planes but it's a wonderful mod for adding even more immersion into OFF:BH&H.

 

Even with all of that, if you have bullseye like accuracy, it can still be possible to rack up a score that would make Mick Mannock blush. After all, we flying the sim are not in zero degree weather at 100Mph in an open cockpit. We are not afraid of real death and we have 1,000's of hours in a flight sim, etc, etc. It's unrealistic to expect fully realistic kill results when so many factors that normally work against a true combat pilot are not any concern at all to we virtual pilots. Plus Richtofen never pressed pause during combat then went to the kitchen to make himself a sandwich and get a beer. Some of us may have. It's obviously not just OFF:BH&H. That's true of every sim. In most flight sims,(WWI and WWII) I am a Tour de Force of Air Combat. In real life, I'd kill myself attempting to take off. That's just the truth.

 

So in addition to all of this, I found changing the Front and Rear Gun settings in the Workshop to Less Accurate makes it very hard to kill an enemy plane in a single pass, even if they are stalled out and hanging there at the top of a climb. To me, this adds greatly to the excitement and difficulty of air combat in OFF:BH&H. It used to be that if I ever saw a plane pulling up in a climb, I was all but guaranteed a kill especially if I was flying something that was easy to manuever my gun sights right onto them, such as in a Pup or Triplane. You may have noticed that in some of my videos. By setting Front Guns in Workshop to Less Accurate in addition to all of the above mods, getting a kill takes a lot of work. There's rarerly if ever a single pass kill now. In a campaign setting I can expend all of my ammo in combat and while I will probably damage a number of planes, I might only bring down one or two. Also, because getting a kill takes longer for me, it gives my wingman more time to get kills of their own, leaving less for me to mop up.

 

If you're already running the above mods AND if you normally have a very high kill rate that you'd like to see brought down a bit, I highly recommend making a test pilot, changing the Front and Rear Guns accuracy in the Workshop to Less Accurate and trying out the difference in combat. Before, when I took off for a mission on a campaign, I was pretty certain I was going to come home with a number of kills. Now I am not so certain I will come back with any at all. And oddly enough, that's a very exciting thing to me.

 

Usually I post videos of the stuff I do. This time I'll just recommend you try it out for yourself and let me know what you think.

 

Thanks to everyone in the community and OBD who has worked so hard to make OFF:BH&H a first class WWI air combat sim.

 

Hellshade

Edited July 19, 2011 by Hellshade

[Pips 5]

Excellent suggestions Hellshade. I already fly with both main and rear guns set to "less accurate". I'll add in the other mods you suggest as well.

 

Anything to bring scoring, and dogfights in general, down to more realistic levels. The tougher it is the more I enjoy it. :)

Edited July 19, 2011 by Pips

[Hellshade 110]

HPWs & Creaghorns mods are invaluable, IMHO. Thank God the Devs also saw fit to make so many options in the Workshop to custom tailor the experience to each of our personal tastes as well. Anyways, I used to be able to take down a hun in a single pass, especially if they were pulled up into a stall. Here's a quick 1:30 video taken from an actual campaign mission. In the end, I still got him but it took a lot longer and I used a lot more rounds than I used too. That gave my wingmen more time to get some kills of their own and left me fewer rounds to make additional kills with.

 

Plus, with HPW's latest Ultimate Damage Model 1.0, you can see how much agility the enemy Albatros has even after I pour several bursts into his wings and fuselage. In fact it's not until after a long burst that makes the pilot scream does he begin to fly straight and level as if wounded. It's quite good. There are a lot fewer wounded 'sitting ducks' up in the skies now. Thats just how I like it.

 

Hellshade

 

Die Hard (1:35) 1080HD

 

 

 

[+elephant 36]

Yes indeed! Absolute must have mods!

I use most of them too...

I have disabled Creaghorn's tracer mod as, I kind of like the flying debris effect + the exaust fumes that this mod eliminates.

I have developed my own reduced tracer mod, istead.

At the moment I have the FM mods disabled too, as I can't see Aces schemes in my Sqn.

(waiting for Winder's fix)...

[Olham 164]

When I read the title of you post, Hellshade, I was really wondering, what kill rates

you might regard as realistic, seeing your fighting style???

 

You mention the most important mod to make the kill rates more realistic, and it is a mod

that must be brought up by each player himself: the fear of his death; the deepest desire

to survive the war. That may be hard to do for most of us.

But the mods are all very good for getting in that direction, surely.

 

Elephant, I forgot: was your tracer mod uploaded? I lost it when I got the new rig,

and I'd like to try it again.

[Olham 164]

PS: don't give up getting to the more realistic flying, everyone.

I am slowly getting there more and more, I believe. I am flying OFF since Phase 2,

and first I only just wanted to rule the sky; to shoot down any and all enemy craft,

as long as my ammunition would last.

 

Today I am still flying with less care than I would, if it could cost my real life.

But my interest in getting it more realistic, is growing with my knowledge about the whole

WW1 air combat and the flyers. The more I read, the more I know what would feel realistic.

The more respect do I grow for the RL pilots.

 

The "Fighting Fury" is slowly changing into the feeling you might have, if you had "No Parachute".

I felt all the time, that I cannot force to be like that.

I could not sit down at the monitor and decide: from now on I'll fly it realistic.

It had to grow for me, and is still growing.

So, don't give it up, everyone - it may just take it's time.

[RAF_Louvert 101]

.

 

It does indeed take time Olham, but if you like the idea of getting close to how our RL WWI examples did it it's well worth the time, IMHO. That is one of the great things about this sim, you can really fly it the way you wish because it has so many options.

 

.

[Hellshade 110]

When I read the title of you post, Hellshade, I was really wondering, what kill rates

you might regard as realistic, seeing your fighting style???

 

 

 

Somewhere around what Mick Mannock got sounds good to me.

 

Hellshade

[Olham 164]

But he did that in his whole service time - not every week?

[Hellshade 110]

And that's why I've been looking for ways to reduce the number of kills that I can make. HPWs mods have been invaluable. I can't wait until his next version is ready for testing. Cable hits will be dropped to 5%. That will give the enemy AI a much better chance at putting up a longer, more intense fight.

 

Hellshade

[+elephant 36]

I don't know about cable hits reduction and wing strength...

I have my doubts...

Not about the percentage of cable hits, (that's plausible enough and even lower), but the fact that in a structural hit wing,

the tension from the cables, wouldn't result the wing to break more easily if the plane keeps manoeuvring?

What do you think?

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

"This brief commercial interruption was brought to you by Hellshade, an extremely satisfied customer of HPW's DM and FM mods." tm :rofl:

 

Thank you for the enthusiastic endorsement, Hellshade. It's very gratifying to hear from users who enjoy using my mods, especially after all the work I have put into them.

Edited July 19, 2011 by Herr Prop-Wasche

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

Elephant. Can you explain more what you mean? I'm not sure I follow. I'm guessing you're saying the wings should be more likely to fail after a cable hit because of the lack of tension? As far as I know, the supporting wires and struts are not currently separately modeled in OFF (maybe in P4). We are just talking about the control cables for the elevator, ailerons, rudder, etc.

[+elephant 36]

OK, you were talking about control cables only...

I thought that you were talking about the wing cables and was suggesting that a damaged wing would collapse under the combined tension of the cables and the G forces while manoeuvring.

But since they are not modelled it's just a misunderstanding by my side...

[Hellshade 110]

Yes, yes sir. Control cables only. Those little things that should hardly ever really be hit. I don't want helpless enemy pilots who can only watch as I pull in slowly behind them and unload my guns at my leisure. With the control cables rarely ever hit, the planes agility (in HPWs Ultimate Damage Model) only loses agility very slowly based on the % of damage done to the wings and control surfaces themselves. That means they fight hard until the end! Those are the noblest of victories for me to savor and the ones you wish to tell your great grandchildren about someday.

 

Hellshade

[Hellshade 110]

Speaking of stories to tell your grandchildren from your days serving in the air campaign...

 

On May 16th, 1917 a flight of RNAS 10 Sopwith Triplanes were tasked with protecting Observation Balloons during a heavy summer storm. A squadron of Albatros set upon us and an epic dogfight ensued. Neither side was willing to give up or give quarter in this no holds barred, vicious furball.

 

 

Hellshade

Edited July 20, 2011 by Hellshade

[Javito1986 14]

I think that's the best OFF combat I've seen caught on video. Could use it to advertise!

[Herr Prop-Wasche 7]

That's a great video, H. Were you using all of my mods?

 

Although I see that the Albs still do that climbing stall from time to time, I also swear I saw at least one barrel roll and one Immelman turn during that dogfight. Makes you wonder what else the AI can do when not restricted by the weaker DM.

[Shiloh 12]

Fantastic video Hellshade! I've watched it 3-4 times already as it seems to have a bit of everything and as a new flier, I can learn much from it.

[Hellshade 110]

Thanks for the compliments guys.

 

Yes, Herr Prop-Wasche, I am using all of the mods that I posted at the start of the thread, plus I have Gun Accuracy set to Less Accurate . It makes a huge difference in the performance of the AI, both your wingman and your opponents when they are not crippled so easily by shots. I was also using Bletchley's Active Sector mod for early 1917.

 

I know Creaghorn prefers the gun setting to normal, but I have found I'm still able to "snipe" pilots and engines too easily that way. Thats purely a personal preference. I know the guns were very accurate then, but I like to think the "Less Accurate" Workshop setting (coupled with HPWs Front & Rear Gun Mods) is a reflection of the fact that, while the guns themselves are very accurate, a real life pilot has freezing cold winds, rain, vertigo, fear, etc to deal with that certainly all can have an impact on your reactions and how well you can shoot. I encourage everyone to try out the mods and settings above if you want to make the fights even more challenging. The beauty of using the JSGME software is that you can try many different things and not worry about ruining your OFF:BH&H game. If you don't like something, just change it back by unselecting the mod within JGSME. What do you have to lose?

 

 

Hellshade

Edited July 20, 2011 by Hellshade

[Olham 164]

The latest video is showing, that at least a more experienced Staffel like Jasta 26 can do some energy fighting.

What I am missing very hard, and what I deeply desire to see more in P4, are real evasive movements of craft,

which are getting chased and fired after. Here, the AI is often acting like a suicidal winglame duck, as if saying:

"Come on, finish me off now, I can't stand it anymore."

 

The new DM of Herr Prop-Wasche is looking very good. Now it is really hard work, to bring them down.

 

Thank you for the tips about all the mods and how you use them, Hellshade.

I am longing for the weekend already, when I intend to get it all installed and configurated like that again.

Edited July 21, 2011 by Olham

[Hellshade 110]

I'm working with HPW to test out something that should reduce the likelihood of the "suicidal winglame duck" issue substantially. We can't change the AI but we can try to make it so they don't lose agility as quickly in some instances.

 

Hellshade

[Olham 164]

Good idea! Maybe that will at least make it a bit better?

I guess it must be like a Gordian knot to untangle, when you start with the values of AI?

Change one thing, and get a strange result elsewhere, like that - I wish you good luck with that,

Herr Prop-Wasche and Hellshade!

[Javito1986 14]

What's the recommended AI Gun Range with these mods? Still 'easy'?

[Hellshade 110]

Yes, I have still been using easy. But worth a try to change it and see how that works too. Always good to try all of the options sir.

 

Hellshade