Which Way ... Points?

[Wayfarer 5]

In trying to wean myself of any HUDs, I have got as far as just having the the compass in one corner and navigating using paper maps and occasional looks at the in-game map, so I am not following waypoints. In navigating to the target point I try to minimise the time that I am behind enemy lines by staying on our side of the lines until roughly at the right latitude, then dashing across the lines to the right point. I return by the reverse route.

The 'official' waypoints seem to take a slightly more direct route, with longer portions of the flight behind enemy lines. I was wondering if these followed the way that actual mission routes were worked out, and were they constrained by considerations such as fuel usage?

I am concerned that I might be 'cheating' a little with my own choice of routes.

[Flyby PC 23]

It depends is the quick answer.

 

Many missions feature visiting all the way points as being part of that mission. If you don't visit them all, you may never complete the mission successfully. You can know if this is the case by reading the mission brief. It will read as a mission goal. If it's not there, you are free to fly the mission as you like. Be aware however that many mission variables, such as enemy interceptions and contacts can be prompted to spawn relative to your position. This may or may not be important, but if it's a CAP or combat air patrol, it could be extremely important for the mission to work. If you don't fly the prescribed route, this could result in more, or fewer contacts than predicted. Depending on the mission, this may or may not be important. If I remember correctly, in CFS3, you could even raise the probability of a spawned interception by flying above a certain altitude. Be aware these spawn 'points' won't appear on your mission map. You'd need to open the mission with the Mission Builder to see them.

 

There are some people like to fly 'off piste' so to speak, so I'd listen to their experience. I don't know how most of the OFF missions have been constructed, and how your interaction with the enemy has been constructed.

 

To give you some illustration, I once tried to write a CF3 mission for Operation Jericho, which followed a flight path written in the actual mission de-brief. This was just for authenticity. But because the mission was flown at low level, I'm sure I was able to script an increase in enemy interceptions if you flew above a certain altitiude for any length of time, and as such became visible to radar. There were interceptions on the real mission however, with one of the Mosquitos shot down by a FW190, and to be as accurate as possible, these FW190's were prompted to appear by spawn points located on the flight path which were consistent with the real contact points on the genuine mission.

 

So you see it really depends on the individual mission to say whether it's a good or bad idea to abandon the prescribed flight path.

Edited July 30, 2011 by Flyby PC

[Olham 164]

From what I read, they created the flight path so, that they followed roads or rivers until they reached a landmark,

which they used as a wayoint, from where they could follow another road or river or landmark.

 

British fighter patrols seemed to fly a bit by taste. I don't think they really followed a flight path,

but rather patrolled a certain area, which they knew the landmarks of. So they always knew,

where they were. And if they got lost in a fight, they headed back westerly, until they found

a known landmark again.

They often flew devious ways, because they could hope to gain an element of surprise, when they

followed a German flight from the east - the direction the Germans would expect them from least.

 

For two-seaters, that must have been different; they often had fixed mission targets.

But they did not approach them straight, when they didn't want the enemy to guess, where they were

heading. Otherwise a call from the front line to a Jasta further inland could startle up the enemy too easily.

So they used slightly devious ways to blur their intentions; like flying east to a certain landmark,

and then south from there to the target. And if you return on a different way, the enemy cannot lurk behind

you for your return.

But here the two-seat-experts may have more to add.

Edited July 30, 2011 by Olham

[Creaghorn 10]

It depends is the quick answer.

 

Many missions feature visiting all the way points as being part of that mission. If you don't visit them all, you may never complete the mission successfully. You can know if this is the case by reading the mission brief. It will read as a mission goal. If it's not there, you are free to fly the mission as you like. Be aware however that many mission variables, such as enemy interceptions and contacts can be prompted to spawn relative to your position. This may or may not be important, but if it's a CAP or combat air patrol, it could be extremely important for the mission to work. If you don't fly the prescribed route, this could result in more, or fewer contacts than predicted. Depending on the mission, this may or may not be important. If I remember correctly, in CFS3, you could even raise the probability of a spawned interception by flying above a certain altitude. Be aware these spawn 'points' won't appear on your mission map. You'd need to open the mission with the Mission Builder to see them.

 

hi flyby,

there are no spawns during campaigns. the enemy patrols and twoseaters you can meet anywhere or nowhere. they are not related to any flightroute because they have own flightroutes and missions which might be near you or many miles somewhere else. that is one of the great features of the campaign systems. unlike in most other sims you are not the bellybutton of the world where enemies and everything else is built around you and with the only purpose to meet you. you are just one small part with your mission and all AI patrols have their own missions. and if you meet them, that's coincidence. it might happen that somewhere else, miles away from you there occure dogfights with friendly and enemy patrols while you are somewhere completely else. that's something the devs have mentioned a lot of times, and also when the campaign mission loads you can see the message that spawns are disabled. so nothing related to your mission

[Flyby PC 23]

My advice relates to how CFS3/OFF missions get written, whereas Olham is describing how the real pilots would plan to fly and navigate their missions.

 

I suppose it doesn't really matter, UNLESS you're flying a mission which is a historic mission closely intended to recreate certain events happening at certain times in known locations.

 

The best answer would be to fly a mission where the author wrote the flight path to follow the course of rivers and rails on the CFS3 map, allowing you to use waypoint or the map as you preferred. This would take a while to do, and ask an awful lot from the mission builder, but would probably be the best solution. I don't know if OFF missions are compiled to that degree of historic authenticity, but some might well could be.

 

@Creaghorn - Yes thats in a campaign, but say you wanted to build an OFF mission to recreate a famous dogfight or engagement outside of campaign mode. You couldn't leave that to random chance encounters. It's true most of my mission building was CFS3 related, but historically accurate missions were commonly attempted. Say for example you wanted to attempt to fly Werner Voss's fial mission versus 5 SE5s from 54 Squadron, and see if you can put rounds into all of them.

Edited July 30, 2011 by Flyby PC

[Wayfarer 5]

Many missions feature visiting all the way points as being part of that mission. If you don't visit them all, you may never complete the mission successfully.

 

That is certainly true, Flyby. When I first started OFF I was dutifully following the waypoints and got promoted quite quickly. I have traded that

off now against sheer survival!

 

From what I read, they created the flight path so, that they followed roads or rivers until they reached a landmark,

which they used as a wayoint, from where they could follow another road or river or landmark.

 

For two-seaters, that must have been different; they often had fixed mission targets.

But they did not approach them straight, when they didn't want the enemy to guess, where they were

heading. Otherwise a call from the front line to a Jasta further inland could startle up the enemy too easily.

So they used slightly devious ways to blur their intentions; like flying east to a certain landmark,

and then south from there to the target. And if you return on a different way, the enemy cannot lurk behind

you for your return.

But here the two-seat-experts may have more to add.

 

Those are good points Olham. I am flying a two seater campaign, and fly very warily. I hadn't thought about the likelihood of an ambush if you just traced the same route back on the return journey.

[Olham 164]

They had very good glasses, Wayfarer; often good quality scissor scopes.

I've seen a photo of Manfred von Richthofen looking through one.

With these they could determine the distance of incoming aircraft, and the type of craft.

They knew very well, where which type of two-seater was based. So the danger was very big,

that they might know, where the two-seaters had to return to after their mission.

And even if they might not be able to follow and chase the two-seats, they might cut their way off,

when they had to return. So, the more devious ways could perhaps save you.

[33LIMA 972]

In trying to wean myself of any HUDs, I have got as far as just having the the compass in one corner and navigating using paper maps and occasional looks at the in-game map, so I am not following waypoints. In navigating to the target point I try to minimise the time that I am behind enemy lines by staying on our side of the lines until roughly at the right latitude, then dashing across the lines to the right point. I return by the reverse route.

The 'official' waypoints seem to take a slightly more direct route, with longer portions of the flight behind enemy lines. I was wondering if these followed the way that actual mission routes were worked out, and were they constrained by considerations such as fuel usage?

I am concerned that I might be 'cheating' a little with my own choice of routes.

 

 

If you're the leader, or solo, you're perfectly entitled to choose your own route, perfectly realistic to do so also. Unless you are tied in with someone else eg an escort job. From many accounts, two-seaters on either side were always ready to nip back across to their own side if they saw a threat. Used exactly your tactics myself on a BE2 mission the other day, flew up my side of the Lines till opposite the target, had a good look, then nipped over and back by the shortest route, wasn't too far over so no need to vary the route back. Got away with it too.

 

I regard both (campaign) waypoints and mission types as suggestions only. Tend to use the stock waypoints only for longer-range missions when I can't avoid them because my 'drome is a long way from the Lines and I may therefore decide to warp if time is short. If I get a silly mission like artillery observation in a scout or (unless in a Camel, DH5 or other ground-strafer) a railyard attack in a scout, I just fly a more realistic mission instead, normally a patrol near the lines. With other flights going about their own business there is nearly always trade to be had. I don't use the 'realistic missions' mod as I tend to forget to enable and disable in between career changes or sectors going noisy/quiet.

[Lewie 7]

Since I'm still using the TAC I fly two or three of the first short points of the home airfield route, and leave one not finished and start the patrol. Sometimes the altitude gained while circling the field seems too slow, so I start climbing in the direction of my destination. Hopefully I'm high enough to avoid having my flight be jumped by higher enemies. It's a rare flight that doesn't have close contacts with German flights over the Allied side, seems like I rarely get to cross the front lines.

[Javito1986 14]

Since I'm still using the TAC I fly two or three of the first short points of the home airfield route, and leave one not finished and start the patrol. Sometimes the altitude gained while circling the field seems too slow, so I start climbing in the direction of my destination. Hopefully I'm high enough to avoid having my flight be jumped by higher enemies. It's a rare flight that doesn't have close contacts with German flights over the Allied side, seems like I rarely get to cross the front lines.

 

 

 

 

I wonder if this can be modded? I'd like to see the Germans staying more on their side of the Line as they did historically.

[Olham 164]

If you need to save some time, you could press "X" for warping after takeoff, and keep one finger on "Ctrl";

and then you exit warp with "X" (Ctrl + X), when the circling climb is done. You will come out of warp at a

useful altitude, and now you can still climb higher on your way to the first waypoint.

Edited August 1, 2011 by Olham

[Javito1986 14]

If you need to save some time, you could press "X" for warping after takeoff, and keep one finger on "Ctrl";

and then you exit warp with "X" (Ctrl + X), when the circling climb is done. You will come out of warp at a

useful altitude, and now you can still climb higher on your way to the first waypoint.

 

 

 

 

Yep this is what I do. I don't warp during missions anymore EXCEPT right after take off, circling the aerodrome bores me to death otherwise