Surviving SF2 Vietnam

[Romflyer 25]

I have always been curious to dig into the Vietnam conflict in Strike fighters but I have just never gotten around to getting either the original WOV or SF2V titles...........that changed on Monday with TK's sale I couldnt stop myself and I finally now have all titles fully merged and I'm pretty happy.

 

In preparation for my upcoming deployment into South East Asia I figured that starting off with the Air and Ground expansion pack is a no-brainer ......so I got it and loaded it so now I am loaded up and ready to start my tour of duty.

 

Now I've been going back into some old series1 threads that I had thoroughly enjoyed reading a few years back about being completely emersed in the WOV campaigns.....

 

There are alot of new members here at CA over the last little while and I'm guessing that most don't spend too much time digging back into the archives on some old threads........anyways one of the best learning tools that I found about tactics and airmanship came from reading through the old Double D's (dead is dead) section....... http://combatace.com/topic/49956-the-double-ds/page__st__140 it is a very interest and informative thread to read through and I strongly suggest taking the time to sit down and enjoy the many stories. One character from that thread 'Lt. James Cater' stands out as being truly emmersed in the experience and reading his stories in particular have really helped me to become a better virtual fighter pilot.

 

Another old thread I found (also by Lt. Cater) was titled "Surviving WOV" I copied the notes for references and have pasted them below......it's great stuff.

 

Enjoy

 

 

Cheers

Romflyer

Lt. Caters notes

 

SPEED IS LIFE- All things considered, it isusually better to be moving as fast as possible in a high threat area. Not onlywill it allow you to minimize your time of exposure to the enemy but also helpswith manuvering to avoid certain threats such as SAMs and Migs.

 

LOW AND SLOW=DEAD- From Thanh Hoa up, you are almostguaranteed to be shot down virtually anywhere if your airspeed drops below 300knots at altitudes lower than 2500ft. The sheer number of light AAA that isaround certain areas is amazing. You might get lucky on occasion but it's notrecommended that you spend a prolonged period of time down below at slow speedsif you want to survive. Keep this thought in mind....IN THE WEEDS,HIGH SPEED!

 

KNOW SAM- Remember every place a SAM was fired at you from and make sure to mark iton some kind of map. For me at least, it is the #1 thing that comes to mindwhile planning ingress and egress routes. From the center of Hanoi for example,there are no fewer than 10 SAM sites within shooting distance of you.

 

IGNORE THE GIVEN WAYPOINTS- It doesn't matter what type of aircraft youare flying and the mission you are on. If you think you are going to survive upto Packs 5 and 6 using the stock waypoints you'd better think again. Thewaypoints given to certain targets can best be described as suicidal.

 

THUD RIDGE-This one ispretty much for the Air Force guys flying out of Thailand. It can be used as anavigational aid for others, but it really is a BIG, BIG plus for F-105 jocksin particular. If you have to go Downtown, swing north of Yen Bai and use theridge. It can allow you to get to your pitch up point in relative safety.

 

MIGS,SHMIGS-In this sim i've flown Thuds perhaps 65% of the time. On only fouroccasions have i had a Mig within say, 3 miles. The first time I had theadvantage and shot the Mig down (my wingman also getting a kill) the second andthird times i had it on my six and simply opened up the throttle and outranit.The forth occasion was a bit more tricky but still a controllable situation.A MIG-21 came out of nowhere at about 8 o'clock low while my wingman and i werebombing a AAA site. After the ordnance was on it's way, i used the advantage ofthe high speed in the dive to pull up sharply in the direction of our getawayroute whilest also slamming the burners all the way. This happened to be bejust the right thing at the moment to do to break into the MIG. Since therewere no SAMs active in the area we were able to level off at 8000ft and headfor the hills. In the few seconds it took for the 21 to convert on us we hadthe speed and distance advantage on it and said bye bye. While doing tours inF-4s and F-8s i scored well. Well enough to disregard Migs as anything but anuisance while in a Thud and a trophy while in a Phantom. Migs are murder on AIaircraft though, but really shouldn't be taken that seriously if you've doneproper planning on your routes and are aware of your current situation andstate. For example, at over 500 knots you won't have to worry about a Mig-17either catching you from behind or converting onto you pretty much no matterwhat angle it's coming from.

 

AVOIDING SAMS-This is a pretty tough subject and the options available really depend onvarious factors such as aircraft, altitude,speed,weight,external loads, etc,etc. Where you are at the moment of a warning also is very important. Thesimplest thing you can do is to drop your nose and head down to the weeds.However, doing it over places such as Hanoi or Haiphong might not be a goodidea unless you are really desperate due to the the staggering amount of AAAover those locations. Manuvering to dodge SAMs will be the most likely thingyou will do. How it is done depends on some of the factors i listed above. Ifyou fly F-105s, F-4Es or A-7s, the RHAW is a godsend. If not, good luck!

 

ECM PODS- Sometimes good, sometimes not! While theyreally do effectively reduce the ability of a Fansong to lock on to youraircraft one, should still be on your toes. The first time a SAM blows one ofyour flight out of the sky even though the pods are active will really get theheart going. One great thing about ECM is it really cuts down the range theyfire at you.

 

ALWAYS BE AWARE OF YOUR LOCATION- In adire situation, knowing which way to turn can be a lifesaver. If for example,you are trying to head for safety while in an intensely defended area, goingout on the wrong heading for even mere seconds could cost you dearly. Thinkahead! While ingressing, over the target, while on the bomb run, and whenegressing plan out in what direction will you be turning to avoid the worstcase scenario. If you spend a lot of time up in pack 6(IE. Thud drivers) it'salso helpful to know which way to go for the nearest safe place to bail out ofa dying bird.

 

ARMS SWITCHES ARE MORE IMPORTANT THAN YOU THINK- This is such an unsexy subject that it isNEVER mentioned at all. Between the weapons selection and the firing delay is awhole lot of variables that can really mean the difference between destroying atarget or merely damaging it or missing completly. Another thing is being ableto pull out of a bomb run sooner to avoid AAA os SAMS without throwing yourordnance all over an area. Depending on where you are at, every split secondcounts.

 

STUPIDITY KILLS- In one campaign while flying aCrusader, me and my wingman did a rather dull escort mission near Vihn. On theway back to the boat i noticed that we were heading right over an area that hasquite a concentration of AAA for one of the lower Packs. Well, we got over themand all of a sudden i thought "Let's liven things up a bit". So ipicked out a ground target to strafe (23mm gun), split S'ed into a gun run andwas promptly shot down, Idiot me even upped the ante by not making the strafingrun in a safe direction, IE. towards a safe bailout spot just in case. Foolsare an endangered species in a combat zone.

 

KNOW THE PROS AND CONS OF AIRCRAFT- Very,very important! In the history of combat aviation every plane ever designed hashad it's strong and weak points. Do everything possible to learn what can andcan't be done by not only your plane, but enemy planes as well. See above wherei mentioned outrunning MIGs? On one of those occasions i was at 15000 ft andhad a MIG-17 at 6 high about a mile and a half back. Since i was outbound fromthe target, opening it up was the obvious solution. If it was a 21 i would havebeen in deep trouble and so would have had to do something else. Any Thuddriver who thinks that the right call would be to whip it around and dogfightis not long for this world.

 

PROTECT YOUR PEOPLE- Casulties happen, that's one of the unavoidablecircumstances of war. Suffering needless casulties is another thing. As far asi'm concerned, while planning a mission you should pay more attention to thewelfare of your fellow pilots than yourself. Factors such as routes andloadouts should be taken into account to help you keep your squadronmatesalive. If you are hitting targets every time out but suffering losses, there issomething seriously wrong with how you are doing things.

 

STAY OUT OF CLOUDS NORTH OF VIHN- Duringthe monsoon season you can pretty much be assured of doing a lot of bad weatherflying. IFR is bad enough while leading a flight of heavily laden aircraft, butdo it past Vihn and it's sending your people in front of a firing squad. If youare in an aircraft without RHAW chances are good you'll never get a hint that aSAM has launched and is guiding on you. If you are heading to packs 5 or 6NEVER stay in the clouds within 20 miles of a SAM site. Be very wary above thecloud deck also and never skim the tops, stay at least 5-10000ft above them.You pretty much won't get a launch warning but should get a heads up on inboundSAMs.

 

TIMING COUNTS- One of the most important thingsthat is never brought up for discussion. Of great importance to strike pilots.Vary your speed, altitude and/or route at times to enable your package to comeinto the mission area as close to simultaneously possible with other inboundstrikes, thus preventing the enemy from concentrating on your flight(s) specifically.Arrive too early and face a fully loaded enemy. Arrive too late and you'll haveto deal with defenses that are ready, alert, and trigger happy. Sometimes itcan work out that the defenses are concentrating on another flight and you canget in and out without being shot at. Rare situation but it does happen.

 

 

OVER CERTAIN TARGETS, ONE PASS HAUL ASS!- Fly north enough times and you'llknow what targets they are. Set your ordnance to fire on a single pass and getout of there as fast as you can.If you miss, come back another day and tryagain Multiple passes means multiple chances for the enemy to shoot you down.Try to be a hero and you'll be dead sooner or later. Even worse is having yourwingman get nailed because you stayed in the area a second too long.

 

 

Luftwaffe Ace of aces Erich Hartmann noted in his biography that the"Fangs out, hair on fire" type of fighter pilot didn't survive long.

 

I've been in plenty of dogfights flying F4s, F8s, and most notably in anF-100. In a few i've also lost my wingman. Given a choice i'd rather have thewingman back than a kill. You can always find another fight, but you can'treplace fellow pilots in these sims. I really wish we could.

 

You can't avoid casualties in a war, but you can avoid stupid ones.

 

 

Given a choice, i always manuvered to place my flight into an advantageousposition whilest keeping the enemy as unaware as possible. If things got hairyi would put the nose down and head for the weeds in the direction that wouldtake me to safety. MIGs are great at turning but can be outrun in a dive withease.

 

[+hgbn 91]

All very good advices

[rgrizzy 3]

Thanks for the info, now if i can remember to use it!

[Stratos 3,192]

From my experience In Vietnam campaigns is key to remember the saying.

 

One pass, haul ass.

 

Never try another pass or be prepared to hit the sillk.

[KiwiBiggles 122]

Good reading! Thanx Romflyer, heading out to the 'Nam myself since the sale!

[Lt. James Cater 62]

Glad to have been some help!

 

You can go up and fly all you want over North Vietnam but if you want to come out alive it takes some thought and preparation. The following concerned WOE but it should of use for WOV.

 

Your wingman is of more value than you are

 

Never enter a fight unless you're sure about how to get out of it.

 

Speed is life only if you have enough fuel.

 

All things considered, forget about turning with MIGs

 

Maximum range for guns should be no more than 400 meters.

 

Egress should be plotted as carefully as the ingress.

 

Point blank + short burst = sure kill.

 

Every aircraft has certain traits that can keep you alive. Learn them.

 

Look for nearby fights to get some surprise kills.

 

Think offensively even if you are at a disadvantage.

 

When in doubt, go home.