Carrier vs Carrier-Not happening

[+SupGen 79]

OK, I've got a dedicated WW2 PTO install, copied and renamed the SF2NA exe., ran it, deleted Objects except for one modern aircraft on each side. Latest Nations ini.,installed Solomons-V3 terrain w/Starski's Visual Update, added NavalMap=TRUE, LimitedNations=TRUE, and WaterMap=Solomons-V3_Water.bmp to the terrain ini. WaterMap of my own devising (works though):

 

The problem is no CV vs CV Alpha Strikes. Tried adding NAVAL_STRIKE in both plane data inis and Allowed Mission Types in the terrain ini. The carriers have Names inis and WarshipClass=CARRIER in their data inis. I can select Strike and Anti Shipping missions but the Anti Ship Loadout doesn't come up; I can add it (torpedoes) in the loadout screen so it's not a weapon problem. Tried adding a NAVAL_STRIKE loadout to the loadout ini, the loadout ini works for other mission types; if I change the Strike loadout to use the respective torpedoes they show up. Tried using the Phillipines and Okinowa terrains with Wrench's latest ini updates. No dice. Carriers show up and are usable, just no CV vs CV. Any ideas?

 

I forgot to mention, I also read all 45 pages of SF2NA related stuff in the KB, saw the problem mentioned but no fix.

Edited February 25, 2013 by SupGen

[TheWarrior 62]

I too have ran into the same problem and have not figured it out either.

[Gatling20 753]

Maybe the carrier aircraft are out of range. Try making the different carrier areas closer together, north-east and south-east of Guadalcanal,where they were historically, and see if that make a difference.

[Wrench 9,846]

your cv zones (upper ends) are at The Wall. compare your placement with the image I posted in the other thread, that has the 80km Wall outlined.

 

Naval_Strike only works on AI aircraft (meaning: aircraft NOT player flown -- but is used on player usable aircraft that apper in other flights). Just like naval_search.

 

for example, play a Strike mission in NA, on the Iceland map. Your targets are the russkie CVBG

 

ALso, "time frame" if playing 1942, there are still some jap carriers. if playing 1945, there aint. (even though the ship pack I uploaded does use 1945 as 'end of service' year for all IJN CVs.)

 

I've also experienced this in the PI and Okniawa maps ... lot's aircraft agaings BBs, but carriers not so much. Gotta be a glitch in the IJN CV data inis or something in the nations ini

[+JonathanRL 974]

Tried adding a NAVAL_STRIKE loadout to the loadout ini, the loadout ini works for other mission types;

 

The loadout for Naval Strikes needs to be in this format:

 

[sTRIKE_NAVAL]

DefaultFor=STRIKE_NAVAL

 

I can select Strike and Anti Shipping missions but the Anti Ship Loadout doesn't come up

It is not supposed to. Anti-Shipping missions are Strike missions.

 

However, do you have aircraft with the Naval Search role? And the SEAD_NAVAL role? I am not sure if this is required, but it also make things alot more fun. SEAD_Naval will attack escorts and Naval Search will try to find the enemy (A PBY or Dauntless would be great for this role).

 

Checking my files, I notice my Lansen does not use the Naval_Strike line, but instead use NAVAL_ATTACK. Try using that in the Aircraft line and see if it works.

 

Good luck!

[+SupGen 79]

Guys, thanks for your help but, so far I have to report failure. Wrench and Gatling20, I killed two birds with one stone; I moved the Carrier Zones much further from the Wall and much closer together; about 200 hundred miles apart, well within the combat range of even the Devastor (see attached). No dice. JonathanRL, I also ensured that the loadout ini was in the correct format. Still no dice. In strike missions, I sometimes get a mission to attack a ship in the Guadalcanal Landing Force but, so far no Carrier strikes. If I fly on the Iceland map (my Iceland terrain is opened up to 1940 to 2040) Carrier strikes happen every time, which has just made me think of something; on the Iceland water map the Zones actually touch each other...you don't suppose? I'm off to test. Thanks.

[+snapper 21 799]

Hi SupGen

 

Are you sure all your nations match? When I first started putting together my WW2 Pacific install I found in various ini files IJN, Japanese Empire, and Japanese Navy were used. I have also just downloaded the Okinawa nations and IJN is the second enemy nation. If your carriers are set up to use IJN that needs to be the first in the enemy list.

 

In my Midway

 

The Midway nations list looks like this

 

[LimitedNationList]

FriendlyNation001=USN

FriendlyNation002=USAF

EnemyNation001=Japanese Navy

EnemyNation002=Japanese Empire

 

My nations file has this list

 

[Nation020]

Name=Japanese Navy

DisplayName=Imperial Japanese Naval Air Force

Alignment=ENEMY

PlayerFlyable=TRUE

Mercenary=FALSE

PilotNameList=NamesJapanese.lst

RankList=RanksUSAF.lst

CallsignList=CallsignsUS.lst

Formation.Fighter=WW2AxisFighter

Formation.Attack=WW2AxisFighter

Formation.Bomber=WW2AxisBomber

Formation.Transport=AxisBomber

Formation.Tank=USTank

Formation.MobileAD=USAD

PilotTrainingStandard=NORMAL

GenderRatio=0

DebriefSuccessMusic=DebriefSuccess.wav

DebriefFailMusic=DebriefFail.wav

DebriefKilledMusic=DebriefKilled.wav

SpeechFile=USAFSpeech.cat

SpeechTextFile=USAFSpeechText.cat

Medals=MedalsJPN.ini

MedalTextFile=MedalsJPN.str

 

And all my ships and carrier aircraft have NationName=Japanese Navy. Japanese land based aircraft use Japanese Empire.

 

Thanks

 

Snapper 21

Edited February 25, 2013 by snapper 21

[+SupGen 79]

OK, that did not help. However, I did a little more testing and on the Iceland map I only get Carrier Strikes if I'm flying a Japanese aircraft. None in an allied plane. Also, back on the Solomons map if I fly an Intercept mission for either side i get a mission to stop the B5N1 or Devastor flight from attacking my carrier. Some of this must be terrain related (Targets ini, Types?). Once again, thanks for the help.

[Wrench 9,846]

"Japanese Navy" has to come from some one else...

 

I've been using "IJN" for some years now (and yes, all their birds need adjusting of the nation name in the data inis)

 

Japanese Empre should be "Imperial Japanese Army Air Force"

 

 

for s**ts and grins, try flying a Zeke or Val, and see if you start on the boat

[+snapper 21 799]

Hi Wrench

 

Yes it probably came from a few different sources, but now in my SF2 install not proper SF2NA, if the plane nation, map nation and Nations nation match up everything works fine. Also if the plane has StrikeNaval set up correctly I can fly non Ai strike missions against carrier battlegroups straight from single missions, no editing needed.

 

Thanks

 

Snapper 21

[+SupGen 79]

Whoo Hoo! Thank you snapper21, my nations matched, I just didn't have them first in the Nations list in the terrain folder. Now I'm getting Carrier Strikes every time. Wrench, I'm using IJN as well (your Nations ini), I wasn't having a problem with starting on the carrier, just the type of mission. I'm getting Carrier Alpha Strikes with the correct NavalStrike loadout (Type 97 Torpedo) with the B5N1, however I'm still getting the wrong loadout with the Devastor; still progress has been made! The loadout issue is probably something dumb I'm overlooking; thanks again, guys!

 

Yup, something dumb! Had NavalStrike in the loadout ini instead of StrikeNaval! Everythings working perfectly now, thanks again!

Edited February 25, 2013 by SupGen

[Wrench 9,846]

sssssssssssssssssssssssssswwwwwwwwwwwwwwweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeettttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt!!!

 

what's interestering, if you look at that (AI controled) A-6E in NA, it has this:

 

[strikeNaval]

Loadout[01].WeaponType=WalleyeI

Loadout[01].Quantity=1

Loadout[02].WeaponType=WalleyeI

Loadout[02].Quantity=1

Loadout[03].WeaponType=WalleyeI

Loadout[03].Quantity=1

Loadout[04].WeaponType=WalleyeI

Loadout[04].Quantity=1

Loadout[05].WeaponType=Tank300_A6

Loadout[05].Quantity=1

 

plus other, year specific loads with cruise missiles

 

[strikeNaval_79]

StartDefaultDate=1979

DefaultFor=STRIKE_NAVAL,CRUISE_MISSILE

Loadout[01].WeaponType=AGM-84A

Loadout[01].Quantity=1

Loadout[02].WeaponType=AGM-84A

Loadout[02].Quantity=1

Loadout[03].WeaponType=AGM-84A

Loadout[03].Quantity=1

Loadout[04].WeaponType=AGM-84A

Loadout[04].Quantity=1

Loadout[05].WeaponType=Tank300_A6

Loadout[05].Quantity=1

 

been expermentatind with CM torps, and you hve to have "CRUISE_MISSILE" in the data ini, and of course, 'cruise missle convtered torps. At least for the Betty's (still working on the Nell)

Edited February 25, 2013 by Wrench

[+snapper 21 799]

Hi Wrench

 

I have tried the CM route myself with the following data added in the data file. ( borrowed and modified from the TU22M3

 

[CruiseMissileAI]

ReleaseRange=5000.0

ReleaseAlt=160.0

ReleaseInterval=5.0

 

It works to a point, that some of the aircraft come in low and slow, but some also launch from over a 1000 ft, not sure if some more work is need on the torpedo, I only changed it to cruise missile and fiddle with the min and max range.

 

Cheers

 

Snapper 21

[+SupGen 79]

Hey Wrench, yessir it is sweet! In fact, that A-6E Loadout ini is where I got StrikeNaval in the first place. As far as the CM torpedoes go, I obviously haven't had a chance to see if the stock (?) torpedoes will guide properly. The ones in the weapons pack are EOGRs but since there's no laser designator or TV camera I kinda doubt they'll work properly. Any info on how to set those up would be great, if you're not doing a Default/Year entry in the loadout ini does it need to specify CRUISE_MISSLE? snapper21, the ranges/altitudes in the data ini are in meters, not feet. 160 meters for torpedo release is a little high. Oh man, this is really getting interesting. On another note Wrench, maybe you should include the results of this thread in the Tricks and Tweaks thread? Well, I'm off to fool around with this, I'll keep in touch.

[Wrench 9,846]

I used this on the Betty...(and the not-yet-finished-for-rerelease veltro Nell)

 

[CruiseMissileAI]

ReleaseRange=3000.0

ReleaseAlt=50.0

ReleaseInterval=6.0

 

and like you, got varying altitude releases. but it works!!! We're on the right track.. I choose 3000 meters for release distance, as the japanes torps were SOOOOOOOOO much better than the s**tty B&L Mk.13s

 

I don't know if I've ever posted this, but heres the 'cruise missile' Type 91 IJN torpedo. Prolly needs further tweeking -and your loadout and data inis will also need some editing... but fiddle with it, and see if can be improved

Edited February 26, 2013 by Wrench

[+SupGen 79]

Oh my! Oh my, oh my, oh my...oh no. Just when I thought I knew what I was talking about, I've got to look it up and screw up the whole program. Wrench, snapper, guys, everybody...we have got our torpedoes backwards. I also believed in the all around superiority of Japanese torpedoes, mostly based on what I've read about the Type 93 Long Lance which was a surface ship torpedo that weighed almost three tons! It turns out though, as far as aerial torpedoes go, the Mk13 not only out-ranged the Type91 but by a factor of over two to one! Now before the necktie party gets started, go here: http://www.navweaps....dex_weapons.htm The information at this site is consistant with many others I visited today. (Took the day off and had nuthin' better to do.) This site was just the most comprehensive. It seems that the authors of Japanese Naval Aviation Doctrine prior to the war felt that torpedo attacks at greater than 2000 meters range would be a waste of time, so the Type91 has just that; 2000 meter maximum range with some of the later models having less. (1500 meters) Conversly, the early models of the Mk13 had as much as 5200 meter max range, though in the later mods (that would actually hit something and explode) though in the later mods this dropped to 4000 meters. By comparision, the Type93 had as much as 40000 meters, 25 miles but, at 3 tons you'd need a B-17 to carry it. The Mk13 had no magnetic exploder but it had the same contact pistol problems as it's bigger brother, the Mk14 submarine launched torpedo. On top of that, an analysis was done of 105 Mk13s dropped from 150 knots and above; only 31% ran straight and normal. The Mk13 also had a greater warhead weight, 272 kgs to 240kgs, of course if it doesn't explode, it's kind of a moot point. We are going to need a number of varients as all of this changed as the war went on, by the end of the war the Mk13 was considered one of the most reliable torpedoes around with reported sucessful drops (my apoligies to snapper21) from as high as 2000 meters altitude! So, the Japanese torpedoes were superior, just not for the reasons we thought. On the basis of range and explosive power, the Mk13 was better, however, on the basis of speed (the Type91 was about 10 kts faster), accuracy, and most imporantly reliability, through mid 1943 the Type91 was by far the better weapon. This can all be done, of course, through ini edits; the physical model isn't that important although the present one does a better job on the Type91 than the Mk13, at 22.4 inches in diameter and only 13.5 feet long, the Mk13 was a stubby torpedo. That being said, it would sure be nice if Ravenclaw felt like makin' some torpedoes, wouldn't it?

[+snapper 21 799]

Hi SupGen

 

I know the data files are in metres, my data file was a kind of middle ground between early war 50 feet 15m and end of war 2,400 feet 730 m drop height as stated in your link. Which is a hell of an improvement!

 

Anyway off to try Wrenchs torpedo.

 

Cheers

 

Snapper 21

[+SupGen 79]

Hey snapper21

 

Take a close look at the Data ini for that torp, there are two WeaponDataType= entries in it, you'll have to edit one out. Right now I'm trying to find In Service Dates for the various mods of the Mk13, the site in my previous post has more extensive info on the Type91 than the Mk13 but, so far better than anything else I've found. If you know of a site with more specific info, please let me know.