Miscellaneous FM Updates

[+baffmeister 1,205]

As if I didn't have enough half finished FM's scattered around various threads.

 

Sometimes I find a really nice aircraft package that I would like to install into my "Normal" Strike Fighters install but I find the FM's could benefit with the inclusion of the most recent ThirdWire mach and alpha tables and sometimes a few additional tweaks to the FM. I plan to post those FM's here for beta test and hopefully pick up some information in the process. The main objective is to put together an FM that will fit in with a typical Strike Fighters install.

 

The first beta test FM is for the F-101B Voodoo, which you can get here: http://combatace.com/files/file/12117-f-101-mega-pack-version-20/

 

Eventually I plan to update all the FM's in the F-101 package but just working with the F-101B for now.

The original Column 5 F-101B FM had an interesting pitch-up effect that I made use of in Paulo's recent Javelin package. With the pitch-up effect in the F-101B I managed to crash the plane while maneuvering in combat , crash the plane on short final , and crash the plane on the downwind leg while doing circuits !  From what I was reading online, there was very little margin of error between pitch-up and full flap approach speed during heavy weight landings in the F-101 so the effect is probably quite accurate. For my own sake and probably some other folks the effect has been reduced in this new FM. There is also a new stall warning horn included but I'm not sure what warning system was eventually used in the F-101. Some possibility it ended up with some kind of stick limiting system. Some other notes:

 

The FM has been updated with newer ThirdWire tables.

 

The roll rate has been increased but it's still quite slow. Some of the old jets had a lot of restrictions on allowable stick inputs at higher speeds but don't really know what the situation is for the F-101.

 

Some nose heaviness has been removed at take-off and approach speeds.

 

The take-off/approach flap and gear speeds have been increased but don't know the actual numbers. [i think a low gear speed was an RL issue.]

 

It's possible to carry 2 AIM-4's instead of the 2 Genie's.

 

Here's my information wish list:

 

Flap and gear speeds?

 

Real life handling issues? [anectodal is OK.]

 

Whats up with the AIM-4's? Some of mine are specific station [why?], but they all seem to be infared guided. Sometimes when installing a mod some new weapons get installed but I have totally lost track of what's going on with the AIM-4 so if anyone could direct me to the latest and greatest AIM-4 missile's it would be appreciated. [i'm not a weapons guy.]

 

I would REALLY like to have the airborne nuclear effect for the Genie but don't know where to get it.

 

Here's the FM: F-101Bfm0.95.zip

 

[+Heberth 159]

I'll try it and post results. FM is one of those things i really wish i could do right 

[+streakeagle 871]

I will say this: Column5 did everything within the limits of the game engine and his own mathematical abilities to match the behavior in the F-101 flight manual. I have always enjoyed the results and wouldn't change a thing unless I had reliable/accurate real world data that contradicted his work.

[MigBuster 2,884]

 

Whats up with the AIM-4's? Some of mine are specific station [why?], but they all seem to be infared guided. Sometimes when installing a mod some new weapons get installed but I have totally lost track of what's going on with the AIM-4 so if anyone could direct me to the latest and greatest AIM-4 missile's it would be appreciated. [i'm not a weapons guy.]

 

 

 

 

For one thing the F-4s auto load AIM-4ABCDs over AIM-9s in game if they are not station specific.

[+baffmeister 1,205]

I will say this: Column5 did everything within the limits of the game engine and his own mathematical abilities to match the behavior in the F-101 flight manual. I have always enjoyed the results and wouldn't change a thing unless I had reliable/accurate real world data that contradicted his work.

 

I enjoy C5's FM's as well so leave them more or less intact. ThirdWire uses some tables that are common to many types [i haven't checked them all!] and they cover a wider aerodynamic range so I think using some of those tables actually improves fidelity, especially around the edges. The post stall/departure behavior is much improved with the newer tables. Other tables I try to use on a best fit basis but still learning about that. I have back checked some of my FM's when I find real world data and some are OK, some not so good. It's all part of the "learn as you go" process. Anyway, there aren't that many people doing FM's and my approach is geared towards volume so if I come up with an FM that I think "fits in" with the stock ThirdWire FM's and also addresses some AI issues I'm just going to post them and players can decide for themselves.

[+SupGen 79]

  bafmeister, the absolute best AIM-4s are in Ravenclaws WeaponsPack2, available here: http://combatace.com/files/file/13929-weapons-pack-2/ . There are also AIM-26As in there for more aerial nukes. As far as aerial nuke effects and nuke effects in general, try the ones I posted in this thread: http://combatace.com/topic/83173-nuke-effects/ . They are Lexx Luthors old nuke effects for SF1 updated to SF2 standard and they rock. They are a little complicated (I don't know if Veltro2K ever got them working) but they are worth it. I explained in that thread how to install them as best I could; if you have any problems post here and I'll try to help. Good luck!

[+Cliff7600 1,148]

[...] crash the plane on short final , and crash the plane on the downwind leg while doing circuits !  [...]

 

May I?

 

I think you should keep the drag table datas from the original because the new ones are worse than the originals, that were already wrong (to me)

 

Even better, you could make up new drag table datas that should be less wrong and more close to real life physics.

 

[LeftWing]

 

The old entries :

 

CD0MachTableNumData=12

CD0MachTableDeltaX=0.20

CD0MachTableStartX=0.00

CD0MachTableData=1.603,1.080,1.000,0.977,1.008 [...]

 

the new entries :

 

CD0MachTableNumData=22

CD0MachTableDeltaX=0.10

CD0MachTableStartX=0.00

CD0MachTableData=2.086,1.226,1.092,1.027,1.000,0.989,0.981,1.004,1.022,1.022 [...]

 

Short final and downwind leg are slow speed flying.

You can read that, in this subsonic area, at low speed the slower you go, the more drag you have...

This is almost true if the induced drag is counted, but that's the fonction of the CDLAlphaTable (noted "induced" in the TW notes)

 

To me, at slow speed, the CD0MachTableData should be increasing

 

CD0MachTableNumData=13

CD0MachTableDeltaX=0.10

CD0MachTableStartX=0.00

CD0MachTableData=0.200,0.400,0.600,0.750,0.850,0.925,0.975,1.000,1.200,1.400

 

And you can put the figures you like to adjust the drag effect, but still increasing in the subsonic domain.

 

I think that should make your landing circuits closer to what they should be (and afterstall behaviour too)

 

My 2 centimes :^) thanks for reading

[+streakeagle 871]

If you are going for realism, you need a MachTableDeltaX of 0.05 or less with the corresponding increase in TableNumData.

CD0 should be flat from low to mid subsonic speeds with a sharp climb at the critical mach.

A deltax of .1 is too large a jump to accurately show the critical mach and steep rise in drag just before it.

 

This is what the CD0 graph looks like for an F-4, comparing NASA data versus SF2 stock data and my own proposed data:

[+baffmeister 1,205]

Cliff7600, your approach is interesting but I really can't stray that far from the way ThirdWire does things. There is a lot going on "behind the scenes" with ThirdWires flight engine and my intent is to make FM's that fit in with their aircraft. For me, at a hobby level, the less I stray from the TW approach the better.

 

Streakeagle, I understand your interest in HiFi fm's and the benefits of more refined tables but it's well beyond my capabilities at this point. I did build a 1 deg symetrical CDL table to test in some ThirdWire types and it offered some improvement on the margin but less than I expected. Your drag graph is interesting. From my in game testing the TW aircraft tend to accelerate through mach 1 too quickly compared too real life numbers and they seem to easily go supersonic with external stores. I suspect your graph explains why. Ultimately, if you build a HiFi FM it may not fit in well with the TW aircraft so then what? You have to build an enemy aircraft Hi Fi FM to fight against and put the 2 in a seperate install! [ Although it would probably be fun, for someone with the capabilities, to build Hi Fi FM's for some of the 1950's X-planes then run them through a test program to see how they do.] 

[+baffmeister 1,205]

  bafmeister, the absolute best AIM-4s are in Ravenclaws WeaponsPack2, available here: http://combatace.com/files/file/13929-weapons-pack-2/ . There are also AIM-26As in there for more aerial nukes. As far as aerial nuke effects and nuke effects in general, try the ones I posted in this thread: http://combatace.com/topic/83173-nuke-effects/ . They are Lexx Luthors old nuke effects for SF1 updated to SF2 standard and they rock. They are a little complicated (I don't know if Veltro2K ever got them working) but they are worth it. I explained in that thread how to install them as best I could; if you have any problems post here and I'll try to help. Good luck!

 Thanks SupGen, download in progress. I really have to figure out this AIM-4 business. Never really used them until installing the F-101 and I got the F-102 on deck!