Anthropoid's Questions

[Anthropoid 1]

I'm a retired professor of anthropology and most of my gaming has been strategy & tactics type historical war games. First bought a flying sim maybe 10 years ago, realized the stick & throttle were not optional, got the Saitek X52, used a plexiglass sheet on my lapboard to get it the suction cups to stick. Played the heck out of a few games to learn the basic 'instincts' of flying (MS Flight Sim X; IL-2 1946; Falcon 4.0 Allied Force [which I never managed to play much as it just seemed overwhelming]; Battle of Britain Wings of Victory). Within a year or so of 'trying' out these games, I felt like I was getting nowhere but frustrated and let my interest lapse. Put the controllers away and went back to other things.

 

Recently got a hot new Xidax gaming rig and I've been reinstalling all of my old games (including the ones above). IL-2, as fun as it is, doesn't seem to like my controllers these days. Getting the trim settings so I don't wobble around in the sky was driving me crazy.

 

Falcon 4.0 has graphical glitches, which I hear I can get around by installing a free-to-play version of it somewhere out there on the interwebs. I may get around to that eventually.

 

BAB, I seem to be missing one CD, and Matrix Games doesn't show me a digital download. I reckon either they or A2A will get me set up though; Scott at A2A said "buy it and I'll reimburse you" but I'll first see if Matrix has me listed as a digital download order. I honestly do not remember but the box says it on it.

 

Thankfully MS FSX works like a charm and it was quite edifying when I was able to zip through the first 6 or 7 Learning missions without a single hitch. Hmmm! Maybe I DID 'learn' a bit about flying from that previous attempt some years back!

 

Kinda felt like riding a bike; I was wobbly but I knew what to do :)

 

So then a buddy recommended the Strike Fighter 2 series and I took the plunge and bought Vietnam. Have to say, this is the most fun I've ever had with a flight game and I think I might well become a regular of the SF2 series and I'd like to eventually own and master all of them, and get a nice selection of mods. But for now, I'm just getting started and have a few basic questions about the stock game--JUST SF2 Vietnam, nothing else installed as yet.

 

So far my experience with the game is playing a few single missions to get the hang of it, and then starting (and failing) at the Rolling Thunder Campaign repeatedly. I've probably created about 13 pilots, none of whom made it past 7 missions, and many of whom got random boomed by AA or SAM (or stupidity on my part, though still haven't been shot down by a MiG) within 2 missions.

 

So all that "who am I" stuff laid out, my questions:

 

1. Is it realistic that there are SAMs shooting down US flights in 1965? It was my understanding that those did not get deployed for a while and did not cause any losses until the campaign was a year or so old?

 

2. I don't imagine it is possible without mods but worth asking: if I fail at a mission, it is not possible to fly back and reequip and take a second sortie, right?

 

3. If I bail out in the gulf, or closer to the coast or closer to the border, does it have any influence on probability of being rescued versus captured? Is it even possible to get shot down, get rescued and continue the campaign without reflying?

 

4. Has anyone ever actually flown through the whole 3 years of this campaign and survived without reflying (on Normal or harder)?

 

5. If I go to the effort of strafing and destroying as many additional targets as I can take out on each mission, will the losses actually impact the overall success of the campaign in game? Do P-35 or AAA vehicles just magically 'respawn? Do the loss of these assets actually "do" anything?

 

Reason I ask this is, while the sim clearly strikes an ideal balance between playability and realism/accuracy/detail, for which I'm hugely thankful, it is also rather unrealistic when it comes to the execution of the campaign at the operational level. As you may know, one of the main problems with Rolling Thunder was that LBJ was afraid to go all out, and in effect 'sustained but gradually escalated' was a code word for 'militarily stupid operation organized[and micro-managed] by a civilian politician.' As the operation progressed, it evolved into more and more of a free-for-all 'strike targets of opportunity,' but for the first year or more, there was a quite restricted list of targets and certain 'provocative' targets were just simply forbidden (mining harbors, e.g., as well as a number of strategically important target types).

 

I'm not complaining, as the game is plenty fun without the added layer of restricted target authorization. But what I'm wondering is, given the stock scenario effectively depicts an 'alternate history' in which all targets were fair game (I can attack anything I want in addition to my mission primary target, and I seem to be in no risk of a court-martial! ), are the background replacement algorithms setup so that the player weeding out radar and/or AAA vehicles will in fact advance the campaign toward 'victory' (meaning reduction of northern logistical sufficiency, air superiority, reduction of their air defense effectiveness and eventually, force them to the table in Paris?).

 

So for example: if I on each of the first 10 or so missions I fly in the campaign focus on taking out any and all P-35 sites I encounter, will it actually reduce northern ability to coordinate A/A defenses or fighter interdiction? If I were to focus on destroying buildings that are clearly storage or distribution facilities, else target ships in port, or other logistic elements (bridges, rail yards, ports, etc.) will THAT actually have any effects, apart from upping my pilots tally sheet and 'score?'

Edited March 8, 2015 by Anthropoid

[Anthropoid 1]

Some more questions:

 

6. If I intend to eventually own all of them, but to play though slowly mastering each era's planes as I go, what package or DLC would you guys recommend as my "second batch" of purchases?

 

I'd think that getting the editor is a good second purchase?

 

7. This is about a different title, Rise of Flight, assuming it is okay to ask about that here . . . what do you guys think of that game? I had a look on Steam and it looks more like "Rise of Profiteering!" $30 for the basic game and then $20 to 30 for each DLC just to get a couple more airplaines!?

 

8. Will have tons of mod questions as I go, but here just a basic one: any mods that add more operational realism' to the basic game? For example, more air traffic comms a bit more like in MS Flight Sim X? or the capacity to land at a friendly base, replenish and then do a second sortie?

[MigBuster 2,865]

1. SA-2 SAMs were deployed April 1965 and first F-4C was shot in July 1965

 

2. No you would need to end the mission and refly it

 

3. If you bail over enemy territory or the sea you chances of getting rescued seem minimal.

 

4. Yes - but the longer the campaign the more stupid mistakes you will make - pressing F6 and flying into a mountain for example. The Air defenses in SF2 are a lot easier than the original WOV.

 

5. well warehouses /POL and parked aircraft etc affect supply - but in RT your missions are so spaced out destroyed and affect on supply will be minimal. The affect can be seen far more clearly in say the Six Day war in SF2I where you also have a moving FLOT and ground war.

 

Generally completing the mission does you the most good so getting shot down attacking random AAA isn't always worth it.

Your pilots will gain experience and skill as they fly with you and survive.

 

 

You need to fly the basic game a while before trying mods IMO - a new terrain like Greehhell 3, and some new runways if your PC can hack it are basic things to add.

[+Dave 2,319]

1. SA-2 has been around since 1957 and in 1960 it shot down Gary Powers. One also shot down Maj Rudolf Anderson (RIP) in 1962 over Cuba. So seeing SAM's in 1965 is correct. 

[Lausbub78 0]

 On Question #7: If you go to the official Rise of Flight Website http://riseofflight.com/,there is a Free to Play version to Download. Basicly it's the full game with 2 Flyable Planes but minus the additional content like other Planes or Maps. You can upgrade the Free to Play version by buying single Aircraft or other content in their Shop if you want to. Just something you have to take into account,you can NOT mix and match the contents of the Steam version with the stuff you may buy in their Shop. As far as I know the Steam contents are bundled,thats why it seems so expensive. In the Rise of flight shop you can buy single Aircraft or get a discount when you buy 3 or more. There are sales several times a Year giving a nice discount also.

It's certainly up to preference,but in my opinion the  Non-Steam version is much more convenient and practical, especially if you want to upgrade only 1 or 2 Aircraft at a time. It's a very well made simulator and if you enjoy those early planes you should give it a go.

 

Edit: It may seem expensive paying between 6$ and 10$ for a single plane, but there is a lot of efforts put into the flightmodells and the 3d models of those aircraft. Once you took a few flights you will now what I mean...those virtual machines are just beautiful and well made.

Edited March 8, 2015 by Lausbub78

[Anthropoid 1]

Ah thanks for the replies dudes. Now that you mention Gary Powers, oh yeah, I had forgotten about that.

 

I may give Rise of Flight free demo whirl. If it rolls my socks up (which based on the Youtubes and the reviews, I'm guessing it will) then even at that price it would be worth it.

 

War in the Pacific Admirals Edition, published by Matrix; an excruciatingly detailed one-day per turn strategic sim of the entire Pacific theatre from Dec 7 1941 till war end, in which virtually every ship (down toe minelayers and coast guard cutters), every airplane (hard to believe I know, but it is true), every airman, and at some level of abstraction every soldier and sailor . . . the gaming community from whence I could be said to hail . . . just on the principle of supporting the guys who made it (and it was definitely an Indie type thing) I pre-ordered it for some insane price, I forget if it was $125 or maybe more. I think I had it installed on a machine at one point and actually played it for a few hours! I'm sure I will eventually install it and relearn it and play it devotedly, but just not yet.

 

So I totally get that there are games that are so good, you are happy to pay full price and even if it is a somewhat inflated price.

 

Would you guys say Rise of Flight fits that bill? I've seen four of five points of information that suggest to me that it really is that good, but it is always good to get multiple perspectives on these things.

 

One of my favorite planes from MS FSX is the piper cub, so I tend to think I'd really enjoy chugging around in a little tub machine-gunning the bad guys.

Edited March 8, 2015 by Anthropoid

[+NeverEnough 78]

You might be interested in taking a look around in the Thirdwire - First Eagles 1 and 2 forum here to see how far a group of incredibly talented artists have added to the original game.  There is a huge selection of beautiful terrains, ground objects and planes available for free.  Another big plus is the similar setup to the rest of the SF2 family of modern flight sims. 

[+WhiteBoySamurai 1,092]

For questions 2 and 8, there is a partial solution if you want a second sortie without ending the mission.

 

Go to your Controls folder. There should be an .ini file in there that lists all the key controls, such as "Default.ini". Open that up, and look for the [ControlSet001] column. At the end, paste in the following:

REARM_WEAPONS=ALT+W
RELOAD_GUN=ALT+G
UNJAM_GUN=ALT+J

After you land, press Alt+W and then Alt+G to re-arm your weapons and replenish gun ammo. Taxi back around and take off. (You can change the key presses to anything else you want, of course.)

 

There are a lot of limitations, of course. I don't think there's any such command for refueling or replenishing chaff/flares, for one thing. The rest of your squadron will de-spawn once they land, so you'd have to do your sortie solo. If you land on a carrier, you can't reset the catapult. And finally, there'll be no waypoints to follow. 

[Anthropoid 1]

Ah, thanks NeverEnough and WhiteBoySamurai! I will definitely take up both of those suggestions :)

 

I actually did start to download the ROF free demo last night, but for whatever reason it was moving glacially (which is atypical for my point on the network and my machine). So I had a look at what Steam has and also compared it to what they have on the ROF site. Actually now I'm a bit curious and confused.

 

Question El Numero Nueve (9): Are the sum total of all the modules and packages available from Steam and ROF site exactly the same? Or are there some things that are included in one but not in the other?

 

10. I get that, you cannot have part of your ROF install Steam and part ROF-store. But does that mean you cannot do Multiplayer except with players with the same package origin? Normally I wouldn't think that was the case but my observations of the total package compositions is making me wonder if these are actually two slightly different licenses for slightly different versions of the same games.

 

When I tallied up all the packages Steam seems to sell (all of which had ROF: Channel Battles at the beginning of the title) it came to about $260. When I put everything on the ROF store site into a cart, it came to about $218 and that was with a supposed 50% discount.

 

I totally get that a developer wouldn't want Steam to be the only channel for distributing, and also would assume that Valve would negotiate a deal in which they distribute a slightly different and incompatible version. But I'd just like to know exactly what is up with these two games so that I can decide which one I want to take the plunge with. I'd lean the store bought if it is the one that has more content and is best option for compatibility in the broadest set of multiplayer servers. But if the sum total of contents are identical, and compatibility in MP is not an issue, then I think I'd actually lean Steam. I used to be a bit of one of those tin-foils who was anti-Steam but I've grown to become quite a Steam groupie and really like having a lot of my games in one cloud.

 

Ah, one other question:

 

11. So far, 95% of my play in SF Vietnam has been in the F-100 Super Saber, which I enjoy. I read from wiki that this plane was fairly problematic and suffered a non-trivial rate of operational failures.

 

I've noticed that, on at least three maybe as many as five times, when I was taking off for a mission as part of a campaign, one or two of my flight mates just seemed to crash shortly after take off! The first time it happened I was like "Huh!? What was that crash!? Are the Viet Cong setting up AAA near Da Nang!?"

 

When I looked in the log after the battle one pilot had crashed after take off but evidently had bailed out. A second time it happened both of them were killed.

 

Is this modeling operational losses?

[+Stary 2,426]

Hello Anthropoid as far as No.11 goes I think it was simply AI getting confused and crashing -but it's better to think to oneself it was indded some bizarre circumstance of both planes suffering technical faults ohh no no, I don't think random system failures are modelled at all, though these might be hidden in the code somewhere and unused. Before you ask, damages from fire etc are progressive so once you're on fire, dive, cut off the engine and pray. Then down low you could try restrating ot to low amounts to try limping home -that on medium or better hard settings of course. hope that helps. As for ROF steam/non Steam can't say, have only the non Steam and stick to it, well used to i nthe past a bit

 

ohh, and welcome around

[Anthropoid 1]

Cool, good to know. I thought it might have been AI confusion as I did not do a "by the book" take off and kept my ascent rather shallow and my turn toward my first waypoint rather hard. That tells me that I probably do not want to do that if I don't want my computerized flight mates crashing and burning!

[+Dave 2,319]

Is this modeling operational losses?

 

No it doesn't model this. It's just the stupid AI and quirks of the sim. 

[Lausbub78 0]

For #9 and 10, you don't have any restrictions with the Steam version. Multiplayer Servers are the same for everyone, It's the same Game and the same content just distributed differently. I don't know how it is with updates to the Game, somewhere I have read that in some cases a Game Update with the Steam Version has a delay sometimes. You really don't need all the content to enjoy Rise of Flight.  After all you only can learn to fly 1 plane at a time, almost any of them handle differently,having quirks and its own character.

[MigBuster 2,865]

Cool, good to know. I thought it might have been AI confusion as I did not do a "by the book" take off and kept my ascent rather shallow and my turn toward my first waypoint rather hard. That tells me that I probably do not want to do that if I don't want my computerized flight mates crashing and burning!

 

When the AI takeoff they try to reference your speed and altitude to join up so you need to takeoff properly each time If you go to slow or don't take off they will crash.

[Anthropoid 1]

Thanks guys. I'm sure I'll have more questions soon, but I'll stock up for a while.

[Anthropoid 1]

I've flown the F-100 up to summer 1966 and managed not to get killed (well, there was that _one_ time I was a bit intoxicated (in RL) and went for that 3rd MiG with no missiles and low ammo and wound up a pancake somewhere southeast of Hanoi . . . but it was actually my Dachsund sitting in my lap which was the cause of it, so a justifiable refly!).

 

Couple questions:

 

1. I'm still not getting any option to upgrade to a more modern plane and there are now Fishbeds in the air (why "fish beds" would take the air I'm not sure but it is concerning given they seem be able to go very fast and are difficult to hit with cannon fire, not to mention that Sidewinders seem to be pretty close to useless)

 

If I started a campaign with the F-100 does it ever give me an option to fly another plane!?

 

2. I saw a Youtube video of a modded FSX with a B-52. Is the MS FSX forum the best place to tap into that stuff or what? (figures MS site is borked and my attempt to create an account seems to have stuck midway through).

 

3. Which SF2 title should I buy as my 2nd?

 

4. Any precautions I should take so as to be able to eventually make a fully 'merged' install, whatever that means?

[Anthropoid 1]

One more question

 

5. How will I know my X52 gear is "worn out?"

 

Seems like it is getting a bit unresponsive. I've got the sensitivity in game set to maximum and I still have to depress the stick to maximum to get any response. I guess when I was first learning to fly sims I probably wrenched on it far too hard much of the time. I've probably used it for something between 500 and 1000 hours of play by now.

[MigBuster 2,865]

1. Depends on the squadron you join - some you will get upgraded - some you wont - F-100s were in theatre till the end of Rolling Thunder.

The MiG-21s are more of a challenge these days which is much better IMO - but the MiG-17Fs are more challenging on the top settings

 

AIM-9Bs are naff I often dont take them on the F-100s because the weight / drag of them can really be a hindrance.

 

 

3. SF2I

 

4. Sorry in what context?

Edited March 15, 2015 by MigBuster

[Anthropoid 1]

What I mean is, do I need to install SF2 Israel in any particular location (inside or at the same level as SF2 Vietnam?)

 

I'm guessing based on your response that it is a pretty flexible procedure, and to be honest I'm not even what it amounts to nor the benefits of doing it; "doing a fully merged install" I mean.

 

I've just seen a few people comment on doing this once you own all the separate packages so I assume I'll want to do it once I own them all.

 

Going back to the F-100 upgrade issue . . . my squadron is the Panthers ( selected on that was closer to minimize in flight time mainly).

[+Nyghtfall 2,145]

I guess you're playing the stock vietnam campaign? A quick look in the campaigns .ini showed, that your unit seems to only get a new camo at the beginning of 1966 (S.E.A. camo, before it was silver) and a different version of the F100D around 1968.

[MigBuster 2,865]

For merged all the games have to be installed into the same folder.

 

To keep them separate install them to different locations

 

Even though mine are merged you can use individual exes and a few tweaks to run them as separate games still - merging cuts down the size and allows you to use all stock objects in any of your games including DLCs if you have any.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And any exe you use will create a separate Mod folder for your mods in (in C:\Users\<YOU>\Saved Games\Thirdwire by default

Edited March 15, 2015 by MigBuster

[Anthropoid 1]

Thanks Nyghtfall and Migbuster. Answers my questions.