Mod Request for P-70 Nighthawk Antenna

[+Geary 1,889]

When one of you dabblers in the magic arts have a few minutes could you please create a nose antenna for the A-20 Havoc to convert it to a P-70 Night Hawk?

 

It can be a weapon or fake pilot.  Weapon would be my first choice.

 

It's that pointy thing sticking out the nose of the plane.

 

 

 

Anticipated question:  "Why don't you do it yourself?"

 

Anticipated answers:

 

1.  "Do I look like someone who knows what he's doing?"

 

2.  "I'm not allowed to do that sort of thing since the incident with the vibrator."

 

3.  "I don't have the software and wouldn't know what to do with it if I did have it."

 

I can trade services with you if you can figure out anything I'm good at you want that's socially acceptable.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

 

Geary

[abuassad 5]

Haha! you should add: My significant other wont' allow me to use power tools after the last incident!

[Wrench 9,847]

Dosen't the DATs Nighthawk already have it* ???

I know it's missing the receiver "H" antenna on the fuselage side (iirc -- haven't used in years as only a dozen or so saw actual combat over New Guinea. Performance wise, it was a loser)  There are other inaccuracies in the lod as well.

 

 

(it's the transmitter for the AI MK.IV. Yes, I'm something of a expert on US nightfighers of time)

[+RAVEN 414]

I found a scale drawing of it, give me a day or so and I'll pop one out. Which A-20 is it going on?

[Wrench 9,847]

the only Havocs (and Nighthawks) available are the DAT ones.

Cocas started one 12+ months ago, but has been 'overtaken by events'. Wonder if he still has the MAX files???

 

Geary, fake pilot is the bestest, and should be the ONLY way, to do that. If used as a weapon, it won't show on parked aircraft, and MUST be stated in loadout inis for all mission profiles. Trust me on this. Ten minutes dialing in positions for the 'seat' create a much better end product.

[Wilches 1,172]

Geary, you forgot to mention the belly gunpod, wich´s missing too. The model´s is wrong in shape.

[+Geary 1,889]

Raven,

 

   Thanks.  Just something I've been wanting to play with for some time.  It's for the DAT models.  They just don't look right without the nose antenna.

 

 

Wrench,

 

   I know they didn't see a lot of action, much like my early teen years, but there are 2 planes parked at DAT that could use a little TLC and updating.   I trust your knowledge on these and if Raven can turn it into a fake pilot, so let it be written.... Probably wont get this perfect but thought I'd mess around with it a bit and see what turns out.  Although there are many sites on the internet that reference the P-70, most is just repeated info and not very informative.   Would like the nose art with the black panther laying on the branch but can't seem to find it any where online to get a copy for a decal.

 

 

Wilches,

 

  The two DAT models have gun pods under the belly as well as nose guns.  Different configurations from the A to B models. Don't know if those are the gun pods you're referring to but at least there's something there to play with.

 

 

 The radar and cockpit with radar scope would be welcome. 

 

 Any and all help is appreciated.

[+RAVEN 414]

I'm off to work (RL) but back at five and I'll fire up the oven, the cockpit for the G has Radar. The G is in the SF1 downloads.

[Wilches 1,172]

There´s an antenna in front of canopy too.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_A-20_Havoc#/media/File:Douglas_P-70_in_flight._The_first_P-70_061024-F-1234P-036.jpg

 

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1886249&mpage=1&key=

 

http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/album/data/567/medium/e32.jpg

 

http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/061004-F-1234P-006.jpg

 

 

[Wrench 9,847]

 

could use a little TLC and updating. 

 

to do so properly, would require to completely new lods.

I did a lot of work on updating them before the DAT the mainstream community (minus the antennas, of course. at the time, we couldn't add them like we can now)

 

as to the cockpits...

there were no repeater scopes for the pilot on those (or any early nightfighter, excepting the Mossie). The first US nightfighter to have them was P-61. The AI Mk.VII was also a '2 scope' radar, with CRTs for the both the A and B sweeps (alt and azimuth). The Beau cockpit that we've been using since day 1 is the closest match.

 

The gun pods on both their A and B are wrong -- instead of 4 20mms, it should be (iirc, and not have to dig out the book), 6 50 cals. There were major issues with the 20s, even on the original G model. Which is why they were all swapped out for 50s. There's still some debate on the cheeks guns -- some show the single, some show a 3-gun package, like on the B-25s, some show none.

 

Their B model also has a completely wrong nose, as the B used the SCR-720 or 729 radar with the parabolic scanner (rotating dish, like the P-61 and later Mossies and Beaus). That also precludes the use of nose guns, leaving only side package or the belly pod

[+Geary 1,889]

Raven,

 

   That 'work' word has a revolting familiarity to it.  I associate it with getting up while it's still dark and having to shave.  Disturbing memories.

 

 

Wilches,

 

   Thanks for the links.  That second one has a great profile of the most common picture/model on the net.  Got the panther logo, too. 

 

 

Wrench,

 

   I know I won't get this perfect and the antenna's and guns won't all match up, but still want to see what can be done.

   So, if they didn't have radar scopes, how did the radars work, in a nut shell?

[+Geary 1,889]

With Wilches' find on the nose.

 

 

[Wrench 9,847]

IIRC, the panther is the squadron badge, not a nose art, I believe it's for 6th NFS  (with over 100megs of books on PDF on the Havoc....)

 

 

  So, if they didn't have radar scopes, how did the radars work, in a nut shell?

 

I KNOW!! you've heard of GCI!!! You might want to grab the Beaus (Early Beau Pak, has the NF Mk.1) that Cocas & I have done,  and NF Mossies I did (although both the NF.II and NF.XII are due for new cockpits when the new TSF Pack comes out). In the notes are how ww2 NFs worked..

 

From the Beaufighter NF MK.1 readme:

 

 

=NF Radar Notations:

 

Due to game limitations with regards to radar, the NF Mk.1 is a bit (read: FAR!!) more capable then it's historical, Real Life ™ counterpart. Ranges have been extended to approx 2 times reality. Purists may wish to edit the search/track ranges DOWN to about 5 miles search, and 1 mile track (very close to realilty)

I've also given you the Ground Map, which it shouldn't really have, but you can simulate 'ground clutter'. It's my personal belief that ALL airborne radars could read the ground -- this IS substantiated by historical accounts -- but not with any kind of real accuracy. Building, ships, etc could be made out. This isn't the ASV, but close enough for gaming purposes.

 

Like almost all other WW2 radar equipped NFs, there is NO repeater display in the pilot's cockpit. The entire intercept would be handled via GCI until within the limited range of the onboard radar (apporx 2-5 miles), and the rest would be 'controled' via course corrections given the pilot by the observer/radar operator.

In fact, and I know I'm mentioned the several dozen times on the boards, there would no PPI display; these early AI radars had 2 CRTs; one displaying azimuth (direction left or right) and the other altitude (above or below) the transmitter -YOUR- aircraft. This CANNOT be simulated in any way, shape or form in 3W games.

Single PPI scopes DID appear on the later versions, like the US SCR720 and AI Mk.X and so forth.

 

 

To get a better understanding, I'd recommend locating this book:

 

Nightfighter: The Battle for the Night Skies by Ken Delve, Arms & Amor Publications, © 1995.

 

While not the definitive work, it's pretty damn good.

 

you can see in the image below, the difference between the 720 nose ("bull nose") and SCR-540/Ai Mk.VII nose

[+RAVEN 414]

I made a mistake the K and G are A-26/B/26's way wrong cockpit.

[Wrench 9,847]

no, there most definitely WERE G and K models

 

G is the 'hard nose', with mg - the definitive attack model. Wish I still had my geen-u-wine Douglas aircraft company artwork litho that a much younger version of me destroyed in the 1960s... official R.G.Smith artwork. It depicted a G, flying over a snowy forest, with burning Panzers, firing it's guns. These prints now run into the several hundreds of dollars, and I had ALL of them! for all Douglas birds. So sad...

 

heres a poor quality image of it..

 

http://s162.photobucket.com/user/rtb1980/media/Douglass%20prints/EbaySales005-1.jpg.html

 

(the price ain't too bad, either! and framed!)

 

K (and J) were 'glass nosed. iirc, export version (K)? I'd have to look it up

the J would be the definitive bomber variant, and was used to lead Gs to target, and the "bomb on the lead" procedure

[+Geary 1,889]

Raven,

 

   I looked at the B-26K cockpit.  Nice and with radar, but a bit to one side and too new.  Will have to simulate a radar operator feeding the pilot info and just use the onscreen radar.  Although there is a F-86D/K/L cockpit mod with radar.  Unfortunately the scope rubber hood blocks the view of the scope.  Also a bit too new for this bird.

 

 

Wrench,

 

   Too bad about your art work.  Love R.G.Smith's work, along with Robert Taylor's, Nicholas Trudgian, Craig Kodera, .... and too many to mention.

[Wrench 9,847]

Geary, just use the Beau pit we've been using. it's the "best closest fit". You'll need to have the "on screen" radar display active in the upper right corner. That's the only way it gonna work,

 

If you haven't updated any of the Havocs, you'll need to fiddle with the cockpit ini to remove a bunch of stuff.

Most of this has been posted in one thread or another in the WW2 Fourms

 

in the data ini, the Fuselage section:

 

ShowFromCockpit=FALSE

 

in the cockpit ini, the position is:

 

Position=0.00,2.5,1.2

 

at the top section add:

 

 

Instrument[041]=MoveWindowOpener01
Instrument[042]=MoveWindowOpener02
Instrument[043]=MoveWindowOpener03
Instrument[044]=MoveWindowOpener04
Instrument[045]=MoveWindow01
Instrument[046]=MoveWindow02
Instrument[047]=MoveHookBox

 

 

at the bottom the ini, add

 

 

// ------------------------

 

[MoveWindowOpener01]
Type=AIRSPEED_INDICATOR
NodeName=WindowOpener01
MovementType=POSITION_Z
Set[01].Position=-100
Set[01].Value=0.0
Set[02].Position=-99
Set[02].Value=1.0

 

[MoveWindowOpener02]
Type=AIRSPEED_INDICATOR
NodeName=WindowOpener02
MovementType=POSITION_Z
Set[01].Position=-100
Set[01].Value=0.0
Set[02].Position=-99
Set[02].Value=1.0

 

[MoveWindowOpener03]
Type=AIRSPEED_INDICATOR
NodeName=WindowOpener03
MovementType=POSITION_Z
Set[01].Position=-100
Set[01].Value=0.0
Set[02].Position=-99
Set[02].Value=1.0

 

[MoveWindowOpener04]
Type=AIRSPEED_INDICATOR
NodeName=WindowOpener04
MovementType=POSITION_Z
Set[01].Position=-100
Set[01].Value=0.0
Set[02].Position=-99
Set[02].Value=1.0

 

[MoveWindow01]
Type=AIRSPEED_INDICATOR
NodeName=Window01
MovementType=POSITION_Z
Set[01].Position=-100
Set[01].Value=0.0
Set[02].Position=-99
Set[02].Value=1.0

 

[MoveWindow02]
Type=AIRSPEED_INDICATOR
NodeName=Window02
MovementType=POSITION_Z
Set[01].Position=-100
Set[01].Value=0.0
Set[02].Position=-99
Set[02].Value=1.0

 

[MoveHookBox]
Type=AIRSPEED_INDICATOR
NodeName=HookBox
MovementType=POSITION_Z
Set[01].Position=-100
Set[01].Value=0.0
Set[02].Position=-99
Set[02].Value=1.0

 

 

it should look like this below (albeit I've zoomed back a bit, and it's an A-20G)

[+Geary 1,889]

Wrench,

 

   That's the pit I'm using now.  It came with the plane.

[Wrench 9,847]

ok, Raven sent me the bits and pieces, got them all set up. Have some data ini tweeks to perform (fine tune), and finish the new historically correct decals. And remove that hideious nose badge, that's way off scale. and one more antenna to place

 

give me a couple of days, and I'll have everything ready. All but the aircraft lod, as per usual, will be included, so a semi-complete aircraft in most respects

[+Geary 1,889]

RGR. Thanks.

[Wrench 9,847]

Raven tells me you also want the A-1 version, with the 6 50s??? Take a bit longer, as I'll have to rebuild from the G's data in for the guns.

 

I also have to add back the 2 cheek 50s on the original, as it used them for "guide/aim markers' for the 20mms

[+Geary 1,889]

I don't know about the A-1.  I'm using DAT's P-70B because it has the 4 .50cal guns in the nose, two in the cheeks and a 20mm belly gun pod.

 

I hid the belly gun pod to make the A-2 model.  It was the easiest way to make an almost real model.  I liked seeing the antenna sticking out amongst the guns.

 

The antennas and skin are the hard parts.  Adding or subtracting available guns is easy.  Of course data tweaks can get tricky.

 

I can make whichever version I want for myself with what's available.

 

Do what you think is best for a community release. 

 

 

P.S.  Would you like the skin template for this plane?

[Wrench 9,847]

the 20mm guns & pod was removed, for several reasons:

 

1) the guns weren't worth shit

2) switched to 50 cals --

3) weight reduction.

4) all the above

 

I have my own home-built template from 2007.  But I llike the "dustiness". Can you generate a completely blank, no markings black skin, and shoot it too me? I'll add the markings via decals

 

the A-1 and A-2 are the exact same aircraft -- the only difference is if the 50 cal nose was added at the factory, or modification center.

Data ini tweeks are nothing job.

 

raven is tweeking a new antenna set, and I'll have to the new serial decals. Looks like 2 separate aircraft will be needed.

[+Geary 1,889]

Clean skins PM'd to you.

[Wrench 9,847]

got 'em! Thanks!

 

here's the 6 gun nose, no gondola, with the antenna. still waiting for the new set, that moves the "H" recievers in about 6 inchs

still have to do the correct serial decals

 

if lucky, both birds ready by Sunday, maybe??