Cancelled DCS Super Hornet Discussion....

[Do335 382]

Besides it may be a cultural thing as well as other issues, so now that a lot of people have voiced their grievances (real or imagined, but the imagined may naturally be ignored)  out we'll have to see if they finally realize that yes, the community that they have to support is worth it and not only about the bottom line, but general customer relations as a whole.

EricJ it could very well be... not experienced with DCS communities there but I reckon these serious sims tend to have a circle of friends thing. For example the BMS dev circle is tightly controlled, a new developer no matter how kick-ass his coding skills needs to have a sponsor to join (plain words "do we like you"), and information is shared tightly within but not to the outside. Of course it is for another dev team working for free so things could very well differ. One would think for a commercial venture, the question to be asked is "is this a good business opportunity" rather than "are you connected". More importantly, why does an unsuccessful buiz venture warrant banning.

Edited June 27, 2015 by Do335

[Tirak 4]

EricJ it could very well be... not experienced with DCS communities there but I reckon these serious sims tend to have a circle of friends thing. For example the BMS dev circle is tightly controlled, a new developer no matter how kick-ass his coding skills needs to have a sponsor to join (plain words "do we like you"), and information is shared tightly within but not to the outside. Of course it is for another dev team working for free so things could very well differ. One would think for a commercial venture, the question to be asked is "is this a good business opportunity" rather than "are you connected". More importantly, why does an unsuccessful buiz venture warrant banning.

 

I think it's probably just a misunderstanding combined with the fact that ED is really gunshy with it's relationship with Boeing. Depending on how their contract/licensing deal with Boeing is set up, it could be that any hint of impropriety, real or imagined, could lead to Boeing cutting ties, which would sink their F-18C project, which would seriously hurt their bottom line. A Super Hornet module gets really close to stepping on a lot of toes. Without some really serious mollycoddling I can see ED going for the nuclear option in a hurry just because an FC3 level mod coming from someone they've never worked with isn't worth nearly as much to them as protecting their interests with the US military and Boeing. Things probably just went too fast and too bluntly for them. I don't know what went on behind the scenes of what I could see in the forums, but I'd wager that if things went slower, and ED was treated with kids gloves so as to not scare them about their other contracts, things would go better. But then again, I know fuck all given my position as an outside observer on all of this, so my opinion probably isn't worth spit

[+EricJ 4,199]

I think it's probably just a misunderstanding combined with the fact that ED is really gunshy with it's relationship with Boeing. Depending on how their contract/licensing deal with Boeing is set up, it could be that any hint of impropriety, real or imagined, could lead to Boeing cutting ties, which would sink their F-18C project, which would seriously hurt their bottom line. A Super Hornet module gets really close to stepping on a lot of toes. Without some really serious mollycoddling I can see ED going for the nuclear option in a hurry just because an FC3 level mod coming from someone they've never worked with isn't worth nearly as much to them as protecting their interests with the US military and Boeing. Things probably just went too fast and too bluntly for them. I don't know what went on behind the scenes of what I could see in the forums, but I'd wager that if things went slower, and ED was treated with kids gloves so as to not scare them about their other contracts, things would go better. But then again, I know fuck all given my position as an outside observer on all of this, so my opinion probably isn't worth spit

 

There's a lot of things that go behind the scenes as far as development work, ant of course isn't just ED... There's stuff that I don't remember but I'm still under their Non-Disclosure Agreements, so it's a tricky proposition but in the end it's not so much an "elite club" but moderating gone a bit awry and not so much beneficial.

 

EricJ it could very well be... not experienced with DCS communities there but I reckon these serious sims tend to have a circle of friends thing. For example the BMS dev circle is tightly controlled, a new developer no matter how kick-ass his coding skills needs to have a sponsor to join (plain words "do we like you"), and information is shared tightly within but not to the outside. Of course it is for another dev team working for free so things could very well differ. One would think for a commercial venture, the question to be asked is "is this a good business opportunity" rather than "are you connected". More importantly, why does an unsuccessful buiz venture warrant banning.

 

True, and I think it sent a signal that shouldn't have been sent, i.e. I wasn't out there to screw ED on the project.  So right now I'm a bit gunshy on ANY project in the short or long term.

[Do335 382]

Tirak I reckon we actually have the same theory. But my main problem with EricJ's incident while obviously a shame is not why the project didn't succeed but why they had to censor posts and ban users. Even if this is a "too high up on your horse" thought, OK then why not clear the misunderstanding (like just spend 5 minutes to talk it over "really sorry but our hands are tied", or is it that hard a thing to do) before action is taken, it is not like there is an open explicit violation of forum rules, obviously EricJ spent his own money on the project if there is any indication of commitment. So it is whether they are treating the forumites, customers, contributors etc with recognition and respect.

 

 

 

Anyways sniped by EricJ LOL, but hope you can get well soon and recover for it ain't worth it. Plus DCS doesn't rein forever.

Edited June 27, 2015 by Do335

[+EricJ 4,199]

Oh I'll be fine man, but as mentioned I'm a little gunshy at the moment so maybe down the line... but even then I have to reinstall DCS (which I'm doing now) anyway to reconsider anything first.

[+Dave 2,322]

Well here at CA no one will come here and dictate how any of us do shit. Feel free to talk, vent, share ideas. I think it is quite apparent that there is not heavy handed moderation here at all. In fact the mods here really have little to do because this community always has been a cut above the others. I would love to see one of the other forum personnel come here and try to dictate other wise. It will end badly for them. 

 

So enjoy and forget those other forums. They mean nothing here. 

[+EricJ 4,199]

Pretty much man, need to just move on and focus on modding again....

[exhausted 55]

Well here at CA no one will come here and dictate how any of us do shit. Feel free to talk, vent, share ideas. I think it is quite apparent that there is not heavy handed moderation here at all. In fact the mods here really have little to do because this community always has been a cut above the others. I would love to see one of the other forum personnel come here and try to dictate other wise. It will end badly for them. 

 

So enjoy and forget those other forums. They mean nothing here. 

 

Damn right dude! There's no point in dealing with the fragile egos of the companies operating "over there."

 

This is the only board I've ever come to that lets its members act like adults. I feel like this board might as well be a pub or the rail at the VFW. Thanks for that. I'm not always active here (school) but I always know where to go.

 

The Eagle Dynamics guys have been slowly increasing their censorship and moderation for years. 

 

The Cliffs of Dover board was notoriously bad as well. This came as no surprise since many of them migrated to be with the phony eagles.

 

The Rise of Flight and Stalingrad boards are just as bad. I asked a very honest question at the beginning of Stalingrad's beta phase only to be warned and have my threads removed. Those companies are a crime triangle based out of Russia winning their battles the only way they know how: censorship and eradication. 

 

And don't even get me started on Simhq.

 

My overall message to them:

 

Edited June 29, 2015 by exhausted

[+EricJ 4,199]

I think it has to do with Russian culture as opposed to always just being a bunch of dicks, well... that's what it ends up looking like anyway...

[+Dave 2,322]

This is the only board I've ever come to that lets its members act like adults.

 

 

How dare you accuse us of being adults!  

[+EricJ 4,199]

We act like adults?  When? Where are they?

[Centurion-1 1,228]

This certainly sends a clear messge about how DCS feels about mods in general. A shame really, but their loss in the long run. No way will ED and the select few third party devs keep up with demand.

 

The only positive I can see out of this is that since classified modern jets are highly unlikely to be modelled, we will get more cold war stuff. 

 

I have more or less given up on DCS as it is now, when and if DCS 2.0 comes out and I can get my hand on the Oculus RIft CV I will give it a go. Before that, I got better things to do.

[+EricJ 4,199]

Well yeah me getting banned over something that wasn't my fault pretty much shows that their moderation is piss poor that's for sure.

 

But yeah there's I guess some "belief" that since its on WikiLeaks it's "Okay" and therefore who cares right?  Well given I'm a US Citizen I'd have a lot of three letter agencies in my business and so on, so how that happened is how it happened, and so on.  But I don't think it's a thing against modding, it's a reaction against possible litigation, which is a big concern.