CF-5A_72 FM beta 0.95

[+baffmeister 1,205]

CF-5A beta test FM attached. This is meant for Paulos' CF-5A package available here:http://combatace.com/files/file/13162-cf-5a-freedom-fighter/

 

I have only included the 72 version with the re-fueling probe. Should be easy enough to get this FM to work with the earlier version but I haven't tried it yet.

 

This FM was backed out of the previous F-5E FM I did. I had some reasonably good data to work with but it isn't HiFi. I think it fits in with the TW aircraft reasonably well, though.

 

Some differences between the F-5A and F-5E:

 

The early F-5E generates it's maximum lift around 25deg AOA versus about 20deg for the F-5A.

 

The early F-5E had about a 25% higher lift coefficient than the F-5A.

 

The F-5E had about a 30% better sustained G than the F-5A. Based on the known F-5E data, that puts the sustained G for the F-5A at about 5.4G. Not sure at what speed but probably similar to the 550kts flaps up at sea level for the F-5E. CF-5A should be a bit better than the F-5A due to higher thrust to weight ratio.

 

Some Notes:

 

I got some CF-5A info from a flight manual available here:http://www.avialogs.com/index.php/en/aircraft/usa/northrop/f-5tigerii/4063e005-205a-1northropcf-5afreedomfighteraircraftoperatinginstructions.html#download 

Unfortunately, the entire performance and limitations section is missing from the CF-5A manual so had to make some guesses. There is an NF-5B manual available at that site but the flap set up on the NF-5A/B is different than the CF-5A. NF-5A/B had a strengthened wing to enable a basic combat flap set up that could be used up to 450kts while the CF-5A, as far as I know, would have had flap speeds similar to the F-5A. Here is how I have the flaps set for the CF-5A:

 

The CF-5A leading and trailing edge flaps are VERY MANUAL. When selecting flap 1, you get leading edge flaps only, 24degs. When selecting flap 2, the trailing edge flaps will extend to the maximum 20deg position. IMPORTANT: USE FULL FLAPS FOR TAKE OFF!  As with the F-5E, in the data ini I set the flap setting to 2 for take off but it doesn't work for the player aircraft. The AI aircraft seem to deploy the full flaps so it's not an issue with them. Flap limitation speeds for the CF-5A are a guess. I found a diagram in the flight manual showing the recommended procedures for a visual approach and the pattern entry speed is 300kts  with flap 1 selected on the crosswind leg. I have the flap 1 speed set to 300kts. Gear down speed is noted at 240kts maximum so that's what the gear speed is set at. Full flaps are recommended after gear extension so I just set those at 230kts. For anyone interested, the NF-5A/B have a combat flap setting of 24deg on the LE flap, 8deg on the TE flap with a 450kt limit speed. Interestingly, they don't appear to auto retract above 450kts but they do have a lock out so you can't deploy them above 450kts. Probably a mach limit as well. I think the limit speed for full flaps [20deg] on the NF-5A/B is 300kts. Just mentioning the NF-5 info in case someone wants to build their own NF-5 FM from this data ini.

 

From the flight manual, it seems the CF-5A wasn't equipped for sidewinders, at least initially. The manual does mention that the wiring was built into the wing but there are no launch rails available and the sidewinder tone adjust is disabled. I thought I saw a photo of a late CF-5D [dual seat] with launch rails but that would probably be post 1988, when they did some updates. Anyway, I've just changed the loadout ini to reflect the lack of sidewinders. I also changed the Mk-82SE's to regular Mk-82s. The AI seems to have a hard time hitting anything with the SE's.

 

The CF-5A was equipped with a basic Ferranti lead computing air to air and air to ground gunsight. It had some kind of range adjuster on the L/H throttle. The gunsight had a 2 mil aiming dot with two reticle arcs on either side, open at the top. Not sure if there is a gunsight tga like that available, I just added the one from the Hunter9. The gunsight is designated an AWQ-501 but that might just be some CAF identifier.

 

As well as the gunsight, I did some cockpit edits for the fuel gauges. There is a modified bit map included that makes 2x4000lb fuel gauges. The L/H is internal and the R/H is external. That's not realistic but it's better than before and the zero point is quite accurate.

 

In general, the F-5A, CF-5A and NF-5A were intended for ground attack missions. I have been flying quite a few air to air missions with an F-5A in my fictional install and I find the F-5A quite a bit of fun but it is outperformed by the MiG-19 and MiG-21. I've been using guns only and find I need to keep the speed up over 400kts to stay out of trouble. The AI in my fictional install is cranked up quite a bit so things are probably a bit easier in a typical stock install. Some late model Sidewinders would make things considerably easier as well.

 

INSTALLATION:

There is a new CF-5A_72 ini included because I changed the name of the data.ini to avoid mix ups with the earlier version. It goes in the CF-5A_72 aircraft folder. You should back up the original ini.

 

The new CF-5A_72_data.ini can just be dropped into the CF-5A_72 aircraft folder.

 

The modified CF-5A_Cockpit.ini and CF-5A_loadout.ini also go in the CF-5A_72 aircraft folder. Back up the originals.

 

The modified bit map for the fuel gauge goes in the cockpit folder contained in the CF-5A_72 aircraft folder. Back up the original bit map.

 

Now that everything is as clear as mud, here's the FM: CF-5Afm0.95.zip

 

DON'T FORGET, SELECT FULL FLAPS FOR TAKE OFF!

 

 

[+Coupi 4,388]

Hello,

 

Super! 

 

Many thanks...

 

I go to game fly it!

 

[+baffmeister 1,205]

New CF-5A_72 FM and cockpit mod attached.

Some changes to the lift/drag numbers and I've removed the Sidewinder rails via ini edit as I can't find any evidence they ever acquired that capability except maybe the modified late versions that were going to be used as lead in trainers for the CF-18.

Crusader sent me a different cockpit that has some gauges moved around to better reflect the CF-5A so that's included. The new cockpit also has new gunsight TGA's and I've added Crusader's "raise the viewpoint" cockpit mod that offers better over the nose visibility during  landing. Use the thrust vector keys to make it work.

Some other minor changes and I've added some info for calculating take off and landing speeds at various weights. See the readme for more and don't forget,  USE FULL FLAPS FOR TAKE OFF and KEEP THE SPEED UP!

Here's the beta 0.96 update: CF-5A_72update0.96.7z

[+Coupi 4,388]

Hello,

Please, 

Did the F-5A use the same gunsight reticles as those of the CF-5A ?

Coupi.

[+baffmeister 1,205]

39 minutes ago, Coupi said:

Hello,

Please, 

Did the F-5A use the same gunsight reticles as those of the CF-5A ?

Coupi.

I don't think so. Not sure if the F-5A came with a standard gunsight or not but from what I remember the USAF F-5's used in Vietnam had a different sight installed and the NF-5's were different again. If it's any help, my notes say the CF-5A used a Ferranti Isis gunsight designated AWQ-501.

[+Crusader 2,101]

Gun sights were specific to customers.

There was a simple default sight which was used by many.

CF-5 has a different gun sight, a gyro sight with different reticles.

[+baffmeister 1,205]

17 minutes ago, Crusader said:

Gun sights were specific to customers.

There was a simple default sight which was used by many.

CF-5 has a different gun sight, a gyro sight with different reticles.

Crusader, any idea if the NF-5A used the default sight? I remember reading somewhere it was totally manual. I had a quick look at a USAF F-5A flight manual that might have been used for training foreign pilots and it describes the gun sight as non computing 100 mil fixed reticle with manual adjustment of the depression angle from 0 to 180 mils.

[+Crusader 2,101]

Its the default gun sight visible in this video ... dont know what reticle they use

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vo7jOS32HQg

 

[+russouk2004 6,958]

what reticle...no point in that film did they show it...u got right link up ?

[+Crusader 2,101]

No reticle, just the standard sight/reflector type visible.

The NF-5B manual has 3 pages on the weapon system but no picture of the reticle.. just a description of it.

Edited October 14, 2019 by Crusader

[+baffmeister 1,205]

The flight manual description is the same as the USAF manual so I'm thinking they both use the "standard sight."

[10107 768]

Crusader had made the tgas for the gun sight awhile back as well.

[+baffmeister 1,205]

On 10/14/2019 at 3:50 PM, 10107 said:

Crusader had made the tgas for the gun sight awhile back as well.

Yes, he made a proper CF-5A sight which is included in the Beta 0.96 update above.