MigBuster 2,883 Posted April 30, 2016 The first officially listed American aerial victory during the Vietnam War was achieved by a U.S. Navy F-4B Phantom that destroyed a Chinese MiG-17 on Apr. 9, 1965. However, compelling evidence clearly suggests that another MiG-17, this time a North Vietnamese one, was shot down by a USAF F-100D, flown by Capt. Donald Kilgus on Apr. 4, achieving the only Super Sabre air-to-air victory and predating the first US Navy MiG Kill by five days. https://theaviationist.com/2016/04/29/the-story-of-the-first-unofficial-mig-kill-achieved-by-an-american-fighter-in-the-skies-over-vietnam/ 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stratos 3,188 Posted April 30, 2016 Pretty interesting, man how I love the N.Vietnamese cammo on their MiGs!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+CrazyhorseB34 937 Posted April 30, 2016 Kilgus got the first kill. Denied publically for political reasons. The Navy vs. Chinese incident was a total cluster fuck. New info shows that the F-4 lost was actually shot down by another F-4. The Osprey books on both subjects are really good. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+CrazyhorseB34 937 Posted April 30, 2016 I think that was the same mission Col. Risner, Korea Ace, got shot down in a 105 and was POW. Please correct me if I am wrong..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+streakeagle 867 Posted May 1, 2016 My SF2V take on that mission is available here: http://combatace.com/files/file/12285-650404-f-100d-probable-mig-kill/ The interesting fact is that the VPAF claimed that it lost not just one, but three MiG-17s to aerial dogfights that day. It is possible that the one Kilgus claimed did not actually go down due to his attacks, but even if he didn't shoot it down, that aircraft didn't make it home. The other two, if not all three, were most likely shot down by their own air defenses. Despite the surviving MiG-17 pilot's claim of losing his other three wingmen to US aircraft, the USAF only had one claim. If any F-100 or F-105 pilot had been in a position to even have a chance of claiming a kill, they would have tried to claim it. I would give Kilgus the credit: he repeatedly fired on and hit the target, and the target didn't make it home. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+CrazyhorseB34 937 Posted May 1, 2016 Roger that, Streak! I downloaded and played that the day you uploaded it! Thanks! You are right. A whole bunch of VPAF losses do not add up to our claims throughout the war. VPAF air defenses where just as deadly to them as us! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
+streakeagle 867 Posted May 1, 2016 Compared to WW2 and Korea, Vietnam kill claims were remarkably accurate. Most US claims were backed by VPAF loss records. The US tended to distort its losses: VPAF claims frequently coincided with US losses to flak and SAMs. In many cases, the pilots' never saw what hit them and just guessed based on the circumstances. But I also suspect that when in doubt, the USAF preferred to deflate their losses to MiGs based on the way they ran the entire war based on statistics. Such as trying to rack up sorties even when there weren't enough bombs to send out more sorties. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
