California wildfire explodes to 45,000 acres;

[dsawan 624]

Need those C-130's 

 

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2017/07/19/California-wildfire-explodes-to-45000-acres-thousands-evacuated/3421500460717/

[+Typhoid 231]

And the 747 Air Tanker that the US Forest Service refuses to use on Federal lands

[charlielima 328]

And the 747 Air Tanker that the US Forest Service refuses to use on Federal lands

 

Those drops will be rough on the hand crews.

When the VLAT (DC-10) shows up there is not much warning and it does really mess with what a firefighting module is doing.

I'm in Nevada sucking the smoke from this mess now and i do have family in Mariposa that are most likely not going to sleep in there own beds / house tonight or ?

CL

[Skyviper 1,101]

Jeez. That's insane. I wonder far the smoke will carry on.

 

I hope you folks out there stay safe.

 

Edit: Removed question. It was stupid as it pertained to another country and not the USA. It was about helicopters taking pool water to fight forest fires.

 

 

When the VLAT (DC-10) shows up there is not much warning and it does really mess with what a firefighting module is doing.

 

Could you explain to the uneducated please? I.e me?

 

 I am curious; what aircraft have proven to be very successful when fighting fires? And what kind of procedures are there for aircraft doing drops, do they coordinate with the ground? Improve the situation or make it worse?

[charlielima 328]

At least Boise Idaho.

CL

 

[charlielima 328]

Jeez. That's insane. I wonder far the smoke will carry on.

 

I hope you folks out there stay safe.

 

Edit: Removed question. It was stupid as it pertained to another country and not the USA. It was about helicopters taking pool water to fight forest fires.

 

 

Could you explain to the uneducated please? I.e me?

 

 I am curious; what aircraft have proven to be very successful when fighting fires? And what kind of procedures are there for aircraft doing drops, do they coordinate with the ground? Improve the situation or make it worse?

 

They can all be successful if used right. One factor in alot of wildland fire fighting tragedys is communication.

OK best case with comms on the ground is a hotshot crew directly talking to a helo for close in bucket drops.

worse is the Air Attack ( not that he's evil ), he runs the air show, having Air tankers painting ridge tops and " saving the world " with several layers of communication between ground people and air people.

Being a handcrew guy i prefer SEATs and helos.

But yah the show is complex with alot of factors. my favorite is when the managers put all the air tankers on the coast and the marine layer doesn't clear untill 1200. Brilliant.

CL

[+Typhoid 231]

They can all be successful if used right. One factor in alot of wildland fire fighting tragedys is communication.

OK best case with comms on the ground is a hotshot crew directly talking to a helo for close in bucket drops.

worse is the Air Attack ( not that he's evil ), he runs the air show, having Air tankers painting ridge tops and " saving the world " with several layers of communication between ground people and air people.

Being a handcrew guy i prefer SEATs and helos.

But yah the show is complex with alot of factors. my favorite is when the managers put all the air tankers on the coast and the marine layer doesn't clear untill 1200. Brilliant.

CL

 

I saw the DC-10 VLAT in action during our Black Forest Fire.  It was very effective. 

 

yes, the coordination is key and the Air Attack has to coordinate with all the right people.  We had an Incident One Team controlling our local disaster.  Everything was thrown at our fire and VLAT was just one of the many air assets in the mix.  My impression was that it was absolutely a solid part of the mix. 

 

The 747 VLAT is based here and has flown overseas to fight fires.  It is not available for use in the US because the US Forest Service is playing politics while our US forests burn. 

 

past time to clean out that swamp!

[charlielima 328]

Yah what a mess Typhoid. The US Forest Service contracting ( yes the forest service only owns lead planes and jump planes ) is messy thing. Aero Union who operates the P-3s and I think an electra too. lost their contract and they have/had the newest planes. Last I heard before I retired there was a handful of those "mini hercs sitting at davis monthanon that the forest service and the land management heavies in congress were serious about but they went to the coastys instead. I never did find out if the forest service got the coastie's hercs or not. But yah VLATS indirect with no chance of hitting guys on the ground, i'm on board with that. Do you remember the Boing concept of "fire balls", pallets of large plastic spheres full of water on pallets to roll out the back of any trash hauler with a rear door? Us ground animals gave a hearty negatrons on that. The S-2 tracker/C-1trader are popular airframes for air tankers. i wonder why i never saw an E-2 with its rotodome swapped out for a retardant tank. No surplus airframes ?

CL

Edited July 20, 2017 by charlielima

[+Typhoid 231]

That would be the C-2

 

 

[charlielima 328]

And the 747 Air Tanker that the US Forest Service refuses to use on Federal lands

 

I stand corrected.

This does look like a ground pounder friendly system.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/why-wont-the-us-govt-let-the-worlds-largest-firefighting-aircraft-fly/ar-BBEAInj

CL

[Skyviper 1,101]

I stand corrected.

This does look like a ground pounder friendly system.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/why-wont-the-us-govt-let-the-worlds-largest-firefighting-aircraft-fly/ar-BBEAInj

CL

 

We can't afford to use an efficient system that could be costly to use everyday. Let's not take preventive actions. How 'bout we get rid of all money grubbing leeches that don't anything and take those savings to pay for a system that can save thousands of homes?

 

What are some other technologies that are being worked on that can quickly eliminate wildfires before they spread? That the Forestry department won't pitch a fit over using?

 

I had a dumb idea about fighting wildfires once. But that plane sounds like a winner to me.

[charlielima 328]

Need those C-130's 

 

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2017/07/19/California-wildfire-explodes-to-45000-acres-thousands-evacuated/3421500460717/

 

152nd airlift wing, Nevada ANG has been activated with the MAFFs  system.

Sorry don't have a link. but the maffs don't get called up until all the contractors are assigned.

CL

Edited July 25, 2017 by charlielima

[JediMaster 451]

We can't afford to use an efficient system that could be costly to use everyday. Let's not take preventive actions. How 'bout we get rid of all money grubbing leeches that don't anything and take those savings to pay for a system that can save thousands of homes?

 

By all estimates, that would mean eliminating over half the population of the US and well over half the global population. Let's say 4 billion people to make it a nice round number.

 

Everyone under 15, almost everyone over 70, the sick, the disabled...

 

Are you willing to push the button?

[Skyviper 1,101]

By all estimates, that would mean eliminating over half the population of the US and well over half the global population. Let's say 4 billion people to make it a nice round number.

 

Everyone under 15, almost everyone over 70, the sick, the disabled...

 

Are you willing to push the button?

 

I was referring to politicians and individuals within organizations that hold impressive positions and yet do nothing but spread bullshit all day.

 

An example my teacher gave me a long time ago was this.

 

A town's council had a problem with people falling off a cliff. It was proposed to build a fence to prevent people from falling off the cliff. The politicians said it would be cheaper to have an ambulance carry the dead people away than to build the fence. 

 

So they opted to not take the preventative action to make the area safe because it was too costly.

 

Just like it's too costly to have this wonderful technology get used to fight wildfires.

 

I say get rid of people in positions of authority who don't have the common sense build a fence. Granted people should have  common sense not to walk on the edge of a cliff anyway. But hopefully you'll see what I'm getting at.

 

An unproductive factory worker get's fired. An unproductive bureaucrat get's a promotion.

[JediMaster 451]

It used to be they would do whatever was necessary to secure the votes to get reelected. This meant pandering to the people. Usually, this was actually a good thing, although sometimes it went wrong.

 

Now thanks to things like unbridled money and gerrymandering it's largely irrelevant. You pander to the base to appeal to rich donors so you can effectively buy your position. With the majority of your constituents no longer important to your chances of being elected, why cater to them at all?

 

The bureaucrats get rewarded for saving money, not spending it, unless it's an expenditure that will save in the long run but cost more now. In that case, keep on keepin' on the same old way as before because it's a cost that already existed and is therefore acceptable.

 

There are only two safe assumptions: people will do what they think is needed to keep their jobs (and for bureaucrats that means doing nothing is usually safer than doing the wrong thing because elected officials love to come down harder on mistakes than inaction) and being able to blame someone else for something going wrong is paramount.

 

Whatever your shortcoming, your failing, your error, make sure that there is another party that can be adequately blamed to prevent it from really being your fault, because hey, what can you do when working within the restrictions/directions/orders/regulations from the other group?

[charlielima 328]

Well heres another step forward.

 

http://fireaviation.com/2017/07/25/747-supertanker-obtains-interim-approval/

CL

[yubba 70]

[charlielima 328]

Here we go again. Getting smoked out in northern Nevada. I can't see the Sanoma Mountains or Mt Winnemucca.

CL

Edited October 11, 2017 by charlielima