SF1 F9F-5 & 5P Panther Korean War Skins Pak

+***Geary*** · July 30, 2017

SF1 F9F-5 & 5P Panther Korean War Skins Pak

SF1 F9F-5 & F9F-5P Panther Skins.

For those of us that still fly SF1, who still enjoy the old Korean War mod and who would like some updated F9F-5/5P Panther skins for the Korean theatre.

This download contains the Fighter/Bomber and Photo Reconnaissance aircraft as well as skins.

Because I used Wrench's SF2 F9F-2 decals, you may notice the BuNums referencing the aircraft as F9F-2 models instead of F9F-5 models. Change them if you wish/can.

Most of these old SF1 skins didn't use the decal system. They do now.

I only created a template and repainted over the old skins. The model is a bit old and has some quirks with the paint and decals. You will notice some paint streaks and line deformation caused by these quirks.

Thanks and credit go to:

Pasko/Column5/Gramps/Major Lee/Marcfighters - for the F9F-5 & F9F-5P models uploaded by Guest.

Wrench - for the decals from the Wrench/Bobrock SF2 Korean War Era F9F-2 Panther Pak.

Creature - for the hook, canopy folding wings fix.

Geary - for template, paints, repaints, etc...

MultiUnknownSources - for the weapons and pilot.

If you wish to paint your own skins, the template is available for the asking. Just PM me. It is in .psd format.

These skins are in .bmp format and were created at 1024 pixels. They are 3MB each but can be downsized for those of you who can't use them this large.

If I forget or miss anyone who deserves credit for anything I release, I apologize. I have no intent to abuse or misuse anyone's work or property or claim it as my own. Please contact me to correct any error.

INSTALLATION: Unzip to a folder/place of your choice. Copy, Move, Drag-n-Drop or do whatever you wish to get the folders into their corresponding folders in your SF1 Korea install. If you don't already have the weapon information in your weapondata.ini file, add it. Run the SF1 Weapons Editor. Fly.

I'm releasing this under the Combat Ace Fair Use Agreement. Use it anyway you wish for personal use but please give credit to those due it.

If you find any problems with it, please PM me. If you improve it, please share.

Geary

Submitter

Geary
Submitted

07/30/2017
Category

F2H/F9F/F3H Skins

**alexis99** · November 5, 2017

Many, many thanks for this pack. I have the original F9F-5 in the Korean War Pack, and it exhibits seriously bad behaviour when taking off from carriers. As soon as the wheels are off deck, it pitches up at about 80 degrees, and you have to push the nose down to get it to a sensible attitude. I have spent most of this afternoon working through the data file failing to find what is causing the problem. So tonight, I come on here, and note that you include the aircraft along with your skins.

We call that serendipitous.

So I stole your Panther data file, put it in my current aircraft, and: massive success - the nose-up has been fixed!!! Now the aircraft launches from the carrier in what one would expect to be the correct attitude.

I shall spend tomorrow comparing the files to see what is different.

Thanks again.

+***Geary*** · November 6, 2017

Thanks for the Thanks, but I'm not responsible for the Panthers's flight characteristics. I just re-painted the skins, lines, rivets, etc....

I don't know who tweaked the FM. These older ac have passed through many hands.

**alexis99** · November 6, 2017

It appears that, in the old data file, the [LeftStab] and [RightStab] were connected to the ParentComponentName=Vert Tail. Your new Data file Connects them as ParentComponentName=Tail , and that has fixed the annoying nose up effect once off deck.

Your new skins look really spiffy, and you've added a great pilot skin.

I can't get the TankPanther to appear in the weapons loadout screen. It turns out I already had an old TankPanther folder, so I deleted it and put yours in.

I checked in the Weapons file, and it wasn't listed so I added it at the end, and then opened the Weapons Editor, noted it was there, and then saved it. But it is not available to me in the loadout screen. I'm assuming this is an additional droppable tank to supplement the fixed wingtip tanks.

Thanks for drawing attention to the folding wings.

And thanks for all your great work.

+***Geary*** · November 7, 2017

To get the TankPather to work try this:

Add this to your F9F-5_LOADOUT.INI file:

[Recon]
Loadout[01].WeaponType=TankPanther
Loadout[01].Quantity=1
Loadout[02].WeaponType=TankPanther
Loadout[02].Quantity=1

Add the 'FuelTankName=TankPanter' line to the bottom of these two weapons stations and ',FT' to the AllowedWeaponsClass line in your F9F-5_DATA.INI file:

[LeftWingStationInboard]
SystemType=WEAPON_STATION
StationID=1
StationGroupID=1
StationType=EXTERNAL
AttachmentPosition=-1.9,0.24,-0.4
AttachmentAngles=0.0,0.0,0.0
LoadLimit=1500
AllowedWeaponClass=BOMB,RCKT,FT
AttachmentType=USN,NATO
ModelNodeName=LWingPylon
PylonMass=20
PylonDragArea=0.04
FuelTankName=TankPanther

[RightWingStationInboard]
SystemType=WEAPON_STATION
StationID=2
StationGroupID=1
StationType=EXTERNAL
AttachmentPosition=1.9,0.24,-0.4
AttachmentAngles=0.0,0.0,0.0
LoadLimit=1500
AllowedWeaponClass=BOMB,RCKT,FT
AttachmentType=USN,NATO
ModelNodeName=RWingPylon
PylonMass=20
PylonDragArea=0.04
FuelTankName=TankPanther

Let me know how this goes.

Geary

**Wrench** · November 7, 2017

um, folks...

only the 5P used underwing drop tanks. none of the fighter bomber variants ever did in service. nothing in any of my books (like the Detail & Scale) mention or show photos of underwing tanks on any but the photo recce birds. all the pylons were needed for ordanance.

the tip tanks, and internal fuel tanks gave the -5 an 1100 one-way range. so, figure 500 mile operation radius, with reserves.

so, those tanks aren't needed.

+**streakeagle** · November 7, 2017

I recently bought and read all of the Osprey books on Skyraiders, F4Us, P-51s, and F9Fs over Korea. The F9F was always short on fuel which degraded range, endurance, and payload. The F2H had much better range in comparison. But the prop aircraft were far superior to these early jets. F9Fs and F2Hs did fly some attack sorties, they mainly provided top cover for F4Us and Skyraiders due to their endurance limitations.

+***Geary*** · November 7, 2017

alexis99,

Wrench is probably right from most of what I've read , also. The photo-recon Panthers mostly carried the drop tanks.

So... try what I suggested earlier on the -5P models. Let me know how it goes.

Wrench, thanks for having my back.

streakeagle,

I'd also read that the Panthers often specialized in their missions, such as taking out gun emplacements before the slower moving prop planes moved in for the kill on the designated target. Then the Panthers moved to top cover.

Good reading.

**Do335** · November 7, 2017

10 hours ago, streakeagle said:

I recently bought and read all of the Osprey books on Skyraiders, F4Us, P-51s, and F9Fs over Korea. The F9F was always short on fuel which degraded range, endurance, and payload. The F2H had much better range in comparison. But the prop aircraft were far superior to these early jets. F9Fs and F2Hs did fly some attack sorties, they mainly provided top cover for F4Us and Skyraiders due to their endurance limitations.

Perhaps a question of range vs. endurance? Say a ground support mission target area is 200 miles away. You first gotta fly the 200 miles to and back, which is range. The mission then requires 1 hour loiter time over the target, which is endurance. The jets have somewhat OK range, but their endurance is severely lacking compared to the props.

Also a panther with wingtip tanks fully loaded has 6000lbs+ of fuel. Plus rockets and bombs is pretty heavy. I wonder if they can take off from carriers with full fuel load.

--- I have been wondering about this myself from quite some time as well, but about the Sabres' fuel situation patrolling Mig Alley. I then realize they need to have 30 minutes station time south of the Yalu. Adding in combat which is often mid-low altitude full throttle use, things indeed become tight...

Edited November 7, 2017 by Do335

**alexis99** · November 7, 2017

Gentlemen, thank you all.

Geary: I haven't used the photo panther, but I believe your specific station method will work, and I will give it a whirl and let you know.

Wrench: I must have got misled by Wikipedia or something. They usually list all the variants of an aircraft, and then at the bottom give stores carriage. So they probably stated two drop tanks, but omitted to say that it was for the P only.

I will try and find the source that misled me, so that I can be more specific.

**alexis99** · November 7, 2017

Now I remember why I assumed the F9F-5 Panther had wing tanks: It's obvious, isn't it?

The Panther pack contained a TankPanther file that you had to put in the weapons folder. So naturally I thought: these must fit on the Panther.

I also wondered which racks the tanks would fit on, because I use a loadout card on a kneepad, so I can remember what I'm carrying, and I like to make sure the graphic puts the correct stores on the correct racks.

So I searched on the internet for F9F-5 wing tanks, and arrived here:

http://www.airvectors.net/avf9f.html

And there's this lovely graphic of the wing tanks on the inboard rack which the text says was "wet" for drop tank usage.

Trouble was, I hadn't noticed we had skipped to the F9F-2, and I should have been looking at the F9F-5. Numbers never were my strong point.

I thought you'd find that funny.

**Wrench** · November 7, 2017

the -2 is only available for SF2 KAW, as it's a unicode LOD with DDS textures.

These reference books might be of some help. You can find them "in dark places on net" in downloadable PDF

Detail & Scale #15: Grumman F9F Panther
Osprey Korean Air War In Color
Squad/Signal #6035: Air War Over Korea
Squad/Signal #6082: Air War Over Korea
Squad/Signal #1051 F9F Panther In Action

Osprey Combat Aircraft #103: F9F Panther units of the Korean War

The decal bleen issue Geary mentions is almost epidemic in nature on Pasko's models. Sorry to say. Even in 1stGens it's all over the place. When you add the improved graphics in SF2 ... well... having the MAX files for the Panther (well, all of his works, actually!) would be a great thing as I"m sure we could find a volunteer to fix them.

*don't even mess with the wingfold on his Couger; they flap like a birds wing!!

**alexis99** · November 8, 2017

I installed the F9F-5P photo-recon aircraft, and fully expected the Tanks to show up. But they didn't.

So I used the forced-attachment method that Geary suggested. Now I know the Fuel Tank code is FT, which I didn't before.

Anyway this worked, and the P now has tanks.

Thank you all.

Wrench: I have the F9F-6 Flight Manual, but I'm one digit away from what I needed. And it's swept-wing. So thanks for the library list.

When I first saw TankPanther in the download, I put it in ground objects, because I thought it was a North Korean Tank. Oh well.

**Wrench** · November 8, 2017

F9F-6 is a Cougar

Quote

When I first saw TankPanther in the download, I put it in ground objects, because I thought it was a North Korean Tank. Oh we

omg, that's funny!!

On that one, I have to point the finger at my friend, Geary. Should have, even in 1stGens, divided up the mod into its various folder (yes, we all know 08 levels can use sub-folders in the /Weapons folder)

Objects/

/Aircraft/F9F-5

/Decals/F9F-5 (yes!!! that works very well. it's the pathway that makes it work)

/Weapons/tankpanther

but, hey as long as you got it working....

+**streakeagle** · November 9, 2017

On ‎11‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 8:37 AM, Do335 said:

Perhaps a question of range vs. endurance? Say a ground support mission target area is 200 miles away. You first gotta fly the 200 miles to and back, which is range. The mission then requires 1 hour loiter time over the target, which is endurance. The jets have somewhat OK range, but their endurance is severely lacking compared to the props.

Also a panther with wingtip tanks fully loaded has 6000lbs+ of fuel. Plus rockets and bombs is pretty heavy. I wonder if they can take off from carriers with full fuel load.

--- I have been wondering about this myself from quite some time as well, but about the Sabres' fuel situation patrolling Mig Alley. I then realize they need to have 30 minutes station time south of the Yalu. Adding in combat which is often mid-low altitude full throttle use, things indeed become tight...

Whether discussing range or endurance, early jet engines were thirsty and did not provide much power for the amount of fuel consumed. The theoretical range listed on wiki sites is clean and hi-hi-hi... ferry range. In actual experience, the F9Fs had some serious problems with time on target with any useful ordnance load during Korea. The F2Hs were significantly better, but were in short supply in Korea and still vastly inferior to prop aircraft. When you consider the cost of using a Skyraider to using an F9F or F2H, the only thing you lose with the Skyraider is speed. It can carry more than a B-17 and can get there with enough fuel to hang out for awhile waiting for ground support calls. Whether you are talking about an A-1 Skyraider or an A-10 Warthog... you need air superiority and decent SEAD to avoid losses. But if they are properly supported, no fast jets can do a better job.

**Do335** · November 9, 2017

Well I searched the flt manual for both the F9F-5 and AD-4. The range of the 2 aircraft are indeed similar, ~1000nm, loaded with 2 wing tanks, plus same ordnance load. However endurance of AD compared to the Panther under the same condition is almost twice, 5.0 vs 2.6 hours. For maximum clean endurance, AD is three+ times vs Panther, and this is AD without ext tanks while panther gets the wingtip ones.

Something more interesting, as the AD endurance chart shows, the lower the altitude, the lower the fuel consumption and the better endurance it can sustain. This is something unfathomable to me mostly flying jet engines whose best endurance is always flown at high altitude. Specifically the Panther's clean max endurance is flown at 35,000ft, while the AD's is at... sea level! This should give the AD a definitive advantage on low alt ground support hops.

9 hours ago, streakeagle said:

Whether discussing range or endurance, early jet engines were thirsty and did not provide much power for the amount of fuel consumed. The theoretical range listed on wiki sites is clean and hi-hi-hi... ferry range. In actual experience, the F9Fs had some serious problems with time on target with any useful ordnance load during Korea. The F2Hs were significantly better, but were in short supply in Korea and still vastly inferior to prop aircraft. When you consider the cost of using a Skyraider to using an F9F or F2H, the only thing you lose with the Skyraider is speed. It can carry more than a B-17 and can get there with enough fuel to hang out for awhile waiting for ground support calls. Whether you are talking about an A-1 Skyraider or an A-10 Warthog... you need air superiority and decent SEAD to avoid losses. But if they are properly supported, no fast jets can do a better job.

Edited November 9, 2017 by Do335

SF1 F9F-5 & 5P Panther Korean War Skins Pak

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