Tempest V flight model

[+baffmeister]

Attached is a beta test FM for Veltro 2K's Hawker Tempest V, available here: https://combatace.com/files/file/14831-tempest-mk-v/

I will be doing some FMs this winter for Battle of the Bulge use. This one was relatively simple as I could use my Sea Fury FM with a few edits and a new engine table. The min/max extents have been done and some basic collision points added. Still have to take a closer look at the AI behavior but will leave that until I get some more late WW2 planes installed.

Some things to note about my WW2 fm's:

I spend quite a bit of time working on the engine table and tuning the CD0 values to get realistic speeds. The max speed at sea level for this 100 octane Tempest is about 372mph, very close to the 374-378mph range from actual flight tests. The maximum speed occurs in the 18000 to 19000ft range and seems to be within the test data range of 432-436mph TAS.

In the data.ini, for MaxSpeedSL=xxx, I use the maximum indicated airspeed the plane is permitted to fly at. This is quite an impressive number for the Tempest V, from the flight manual: 10000ft-540mph, 20000ft-450mph and 30000ft-370mph. At standard atmospheric temperatures and pressures, those speeds work out to be Mach 0.836!

From some light historical research I get the impression the Tempest V's were used mainly for low/mid altitude fighter sweeps, V-1 intercepts, strike missions, and armed recon missions. For armed recon, they usually were guns only and a couple of streamlined 45 imp gal drop tanks. Veltros model comes with the larger 90 gal tank. Wikipedia says the Tempest V wasn't equipped with rocket rails until the post war period but I know for sure the Tempest was tested with rockets early in the development period so it may just be that the RAF brass thought the Tempest was better used in other roles while leaving the rocket work to the numerous Typhoons in service. Postwar, the Typhoons were quickly scrapped and the Tempest took over their role. The service end date for the Tempest appears to be 1948 but keep in mind the light research.

With a decent roll rate, good visibility, great low to mid altitude speed and climb rate,  and a turn rate probably somewhere between the Bf-109 and FW-190,  the Tempest was an excellent dog fighter at low and mid altitudes.

ISSUES:

The propeller on the Tempest V rotated counter clockwise when viewed from the cockpit but the propeller on this model is angled for clockwise rotation.

The biggest issue is with the weight distribution when carrying bombs. For some reason, when carrying bombs the plane flies with the right wing down. It's very noticeable and annoying. I spent two days trying to figure out what was going on but now have to assume it's a model issue. When carrying drop tanks there is no problem. When carrying rocket racks, there seems to be a small amount of left wing heaviness but I can live with it. The reason I think it's a model issue is because when I remove the bomb racks via ini edit, the problem disappears. Unfortunately, a quick check on Veltro's Typhoon shows the same problem. For now the racks are removed while I try and think of a work around. It might be possible to make some "special" bombs with no weight but all the explosive power of the regular bombs and use the SpecificStationCode=xxx. That's all I got at the moment, any other ideas?

Here's the FM and a cockpit ini with just the viewing position adjusted. TempestFM0.95.zip

[Heck]

Love your flight models, baffmeister. When will the rest of WW2 be done? Seriously, your BoB flight models keep that mod on my computer perpetually. I already set up a Battle of the Bulge install in anticipation of installing anything you release as you finish it.

[+baffmeister]

Thanks for the comments! I was trying to start with the Battle of Britain and then work chronologically through WW2 but that's out the window now.  Present plan is just to do some mini campaigns and whatever FM's might be required. The Battle of the Bulge project is proving more work than expected but hope to finish it this winter. I did start a Dunkirk campaign using the BoB FM's but couldn't get it to work the way I wanted. I might try again with that one while finishing the Battle of the Bulge.

[Heck]

Looking through Mue's LOD viewer at the Tempest, the only thing that strikes me as odd is the bounding boxes for two small objects attached to the rocket racks seem different in size, although I know diddly squat about this stuff. They're object 1 and object 9. I know they should have positive and negative figures, since they're on two different sides of the plane, but shouldn't the boxes be the same size? Like I say, I don't know anything about this stuff, but that's all I noticed with a quick view. Sorry if it's a false lead.

[+baffmeister]

Probably not a false lead  but I don't know much about model building either.  I was thinking it might be a hierarchy issue but that's just a wild guess.

[Heck]

Well, even if you can't find it, I have my arrow keys set up as trim tabs, so it really won't be a problem. If anyone reading this hasn't discovered this little fix for SF2, I'll be happy to post it here. The thing I like the most about your flight models is that you feel you're maneuvering a WW2 fighter that doesn't have boosted controls, and often had fabric covered ones. Yours seem to capture that more than any other WW2 FMs I've flown. Performance figures are one thing, but control feel is important to me also. Great work, as always. I appreciate how much effort you put into it.

[+Crusader]

the 2 small objects could be checked by removing them via weapon station pylon node name or by one of the other methods

[+baffmeister]

Tried removing Object01 and 09. They are the "clamps' that hold the bomb to the rack. Doesn't fix the problem though. Did see another possible cause when looking at the model with Mue's Lod viewer. The inner portion of the bounding boxes for both the left AND right wing BOTH terminate on the R/H side of the fuselage. Not sure why that would affect the weight distribution to such an extent for bombs but not drop tanks but it's another area to investigate.

Edit: Taking a look at the actual numbers generated by Mue's lod viewer as opposed to using the pointer like I did the first time the left wing extends from 0.0 to -6.306 and the right wing from 0.03202 to 6.338. The fore/aft and up/down bounding boxes are the same for both wings.

Edited September 26, 2017 by baffmeister
New Info

[+baffmeister]

After spending even more time on the strange bomb weight distribution problem and getting no where, I put together a relatively simple work around that I think is OK. The bomb pylon is now controlled by a no weight, no fuel, no jettison, fake pilot, specific station fuel tank. The new fuel tank is called "bomb pylon" and will be included in the loadout ini for any missions that require bombs. It will load automatically with the bombs. If, for some reason, you wish to take bombs on a recon mission or whatever, you will have to manually load the bomb pylon. The actual bombs use no pylon. I will include this work around in the next update.

This is one of the weirdest model issues I've ever seen.  When bombs are loaded on the pylons, the plane flies very right wing heavy. If I use the rocket rails to load the bombs, it flies slightly left wing heavy. If I use no pylons or rails, it flies straight.  Anyway, this fix should work with the Typhoon as well.

 

[+baffmeister]

Updated Tempest FM attached. This new FM includes the work around to eliminate the asymmetric bomb weight issue. Some adjustments to the AI as well as a revised engine table similar to the Typhoon. A new loadout ini is also included but you will need the Typhoon upload to get the bombs and rack. Engine exhaust smoke and prop inertia effects are turned off but can be activated in the engine section of the Tempest data ini.

Here it is: TempestUpdate0.96.zip

[+Coupi]

Hello! 

V1 Hunting...

[+baffmeister]

That's a great idea! There were a lot of V-1's being lobbed at Liege and Antwerp during the Battle of the Bulge so it would be cool to implement that feature. Not sure how that could be done, any ideas? Anyone? Would there be some way to set them up as cruise missiles?

[+baffmeister]

Coupi, do you have the V-1 set up as a normal AI attack aircraft? I guess it would be possible to do it that way and give the V-1 an  attack AI that makes them crash on the target. For campaign use, a special airfield could be made that looks like a V-1 launch site but for single missions I think it would be a bit strange as the V-1s would be using normal airfields at times.

[+Coupi]

14 minutes ago, baffmeister said:

Coupi, do you have the V-1 set up as a normal AI attack aircraft? I guess it would be possible to do it that way and give the V-1 an  attack AI that makes them crash on the target. For campaign use, a special airfield could be made that looks like a V-1 launch site but for single missions I think it would be a bit strange as the V-1s would be using normal airfields at times.

Hello,

I've this V1 Mod created by Cocas: V-1.7z

Best regards,

Coupi

Edited April 9, 2018 by Coupi

[+Wrench]

couldn't they be set like the Silkworms? It's just a surface to surface missile (like a Scud). I know I had working silkworms on the original ODS

[+baffmeister]

On 4/9/2018 at 10:21 PM, Wrench said:

couldn't they be set like the Silkworms? It's just a surface to surface missile (like a Scud). I know I had working silkworms on the original ODS

I was wondering about that approach as well. I think it could be made to work like that but don't think the game would generate any V-1 intercept missions against it. Not sure about cruise missiles either. I don't play SF-NA to any extent so don't even know if the game generates intercept missions against cruise missiles. Any ideas?

[+Wrench]

you can shoot them (CM), but the intercept missions are against the bombers carrying them. Once they launch, you can target and engage them with the Phoenixs (Phoenixi?)

what about treating them as a single shot, VERY long range artillery unit? ---wait, that won't work either. They'll fly out to their target but are not engageable.

[+baffmeister]

Might just leave this on the backburner for awhile but even something like the Silkworm setup would be cool. You could probably get them to launch up a ramp with some sam type launch effects for the booster phase.