AOA and the Titanic

[alexis99]

You know how there's been a fair amount of discussion concerning the Titanic turning the wrong direction when confronted with the Iceberg? This being suggested as a result of the difference between a tiller and a wheel-controlled rudder. If you turn the wheel the same direction you would have pushed the rudder then you go in different directions. The Captain said "Starboard" and the wheelman turned the wheel to starboard, so they went to port, or vice versa. I forget.

The reason I mention this is that I am concerned if there has been a change in how the AOA Indexer works.

I am used to the green down arrow indicating that I am going too slow, so I should dip my nose downwards. If the red up arrow comes on, I am not going slow enough, so I should raise my nose.

So my question is: has that been changed to indicate the opposite in recent years?

 

[+Cliff7600]

What you described "top light green too slow / middle light orange on speed / bottom light red too fast" is the US Navy system.
You should have that on all US Navy aircrafts, and all aircrafts build for the US Navy and used by foreign nations.

But, in some case like the Mirage III, the colors don't have the same meaning because it's not an US Navy related aircraft.

 

And I don't know if it answers the question...

About the TItanic, I have the strong feeling that it was some kind of movie mistake, though I don't know the real operation of the helm of an Olympic class liner ship lol
It could be the exact move ^^

Edited April 27, 2021 by Cliff7600

[Wrench]

there's a MAJOR difference in how a ship is steered, and what the AoA indexer does. It's not even apples and oranges -- it's apples and rocks. No comparison at all.

Don't forget, when the helm is put over, say to port, not only does the bow swing to the left, the stern swings RIGHT. This is why the helm is always brought back to center (neutral) as soon as the turn is about 50% complete. Lets not even discuss the Titanic's rudder being too small for a ship that size

[KJakker]

 

 

[+Cliff7600]

I don't know if this one is a reliable source :

But this one seems more authentic :

F-16 and T-38, not navy planes...

Navy plane :

Another navy plane :

 

[alexis99]

Yes that's it, Cliff. That's what I have on my kneeboard. I know how it's supposed to work, and you have confirmed it. I just wondered if a new directive had changed how it worked.

The top arrow points down because it is telling you to point your nose down to increase your speed and lower your AOA. The bottom arrow points up, because it is telling you to point your nose up to slow down and increase your AOA

Okay, so I have to draw attention to this: the AOA on the F/A-18 and CF188 from here have the fast and slow indicators the wrong way round. Too fast, the top arrow shows, too slow the bottom arrow shows.

Same on the Superhornet. I love flying these aircraft, but I began to realise that the AOA seemed out of kilter.

You fix it in the Cockpit.ini like this

 

[AoAIndexerSlowLeft]
Type=ANGLE_OF_ATTACK_INDEXER
NodeName=indexer_slow_left __________________________Change to NodeName=indexer_fast_left
MovementType=LIGHT
Set[01].Value=12.67
Set[02].Value=30.00

[AoAIndexerOnSpeedLeft]
Type=ANGLE_OF_ATTACK_INDEXER
NodeName=indexer_on_speed_left
MovementType=LIGHT
Set[01].Value=10.88
Set[02].Value=13.35

[AoAIndexerFastLeft]
Type=ANGLE_OF_ATTACK_INDEXER
NodeName=indexer_fast_left__________________________Change to NodeName=indexer_slow_left
MovementType=LIGHT
Set[01].Value=-10.0
Set[02].Value=11.55

You're welcome

[alexis99]

11 hours ago, Wrench said:

there's a MAJOR difference in how a ship is steered, and what the AoA indexer does. It's not even apples and oranges -- it's apples and rocks. No comparison at all.

Don't forget, when the helm is put over, say to port, not only does the bow swing to the left, the stern swings RIGHT. This is why the helm is always brought back to center (neutral) as soon as the turn is about 50% complete. Lets not even discuss the Titanic's rudder being too small for a ship that size

The comparison was about how left and right, port and starboard, up and down, fast and slow could be inadvertently confused. The Titanic was an example of port and starboard confusion due to the way a tiller and a wheel operate the rudder.

"Now a new and controversial account has emerged. Lady Louise Patten, the granddaughter of the most senior surviving officer on the Titanic, Charles Lightoller, claims that the ship had time to miss the iceberg – but the helmsman, Quartermaster Robert Hichens, panicked and turned in the wrong direction. According to Patten, this was down to confusion about the two steering systems in operation at the time: rudder orders for steamships, and tiller orders for sailing ships. “The two systems were the complete opposite of one another. So a command to turn ‘hard a’starboard’ meant turn the wheel right under one system and left under the other.”

Apparently Hichens was trained under rudder orders, and when First Officer William Murdoch saw the iceberg and gave the order ‘hard a’starboard’ Hichens got mixed up and turned the liner straight into the course of the berg. By the time the mistake was corrected it was too late to stop the iceberg biting into Titanic’s hull".

I thought that maybe AOA was treated differently on modern planes than on older planes. Fortunately that is not the case. But unfortunately the Cockpit.ini needs to be fixed on the Hornets.

I'll forget the metaphors in future. I was using one to soften the blow.

[+Cliff7600]

2 hours ago, alexis99 said:

F/A-18 and CF188 from here

Can you give a specific link in the download section for each of these aircrafts ?

Because I tried CF-188B and CF-18 and it was OK as it is.
I fully agree with all you wrote, just that I didn't found the issue you're pointing at.

[alexis99]

I am using the F/A-18A and CF188. Both have identical cockpits and identical AOA entries

I have been using F-18E BlockII and Block I. Again identical entries in Cockpit.ini for AOA, although the cockpits are slightly different.

 

Edited April 28, 2021 by alexis99
update

[EricJ]

Okay I'll fix the entries and upload when I get around to the Block III stuff.

[alexis99]

Thanks. I'll use my quickfix for the moment.

Don't forget the fuel entries ;-)

[EricJ]

I keep on forgetting to do that, but will do