Se5a Lewis - fire separately from Vickers?

[catch 81]

As I have been abducted by Rick Rawlings (not his real name) and forced into the Se5a's of 40 squadron circa Winter 1917, I thought I should familiarise myself with the kite, particularly the weaponry and the new Lewis tilt feature. Now I'm prone to being very crafty at times and, if the opportunity arises, like to fire up into the belly of hostile aircraft by tilting the Lewis down so that it is positioned in an upward firing position.

The question is ... can the Lewis by fired on its own separate from the Vickers? And if so, how? I just had a brief go at it with no luck.

[Rick Rawlings 133]

15 minutes ago, catch said:

As I have been abducted by Rick Rawlings (not his real name)

 

...or maybe it is?!?

 

A.) You can't fire the Lewis unless it is all the way forward in the mount. Please pester Pol ceaselessly until he somehow makes this happen!

B.) Try binding two different keys in the workshop for guns 1 and 2? I was sort of curious to see if this would work too.

[catch 81]

Where are these guns 1 and 2  RR ? Couldn't find them.

@Polovski Is it not possible down the track to enable the Se5a to fire the Lewis when tilted down ? And to fire the Lewis and Vickers individually ? 

[TROOPER117 146]

Historically the Lewis was fired when tilted down by some pilots, I can't remember the accounts of at least one ace who specialised in that method.

It would be pretty good if that was implemented by our game wizards at some point  

[catch 81]

22 minutes ago, TROOPER117 said:

Historically the Lewis was fired when tilted down by some pilots, I can't remember the accounts of at least one ace who specialised in that method.

Albert Ball for one. Used this method in the Nieuport 17 and I think he was instrumental in having the SE designers implement a similar configuration. He was a man of some influence at the time.  I would have preferred the SE had twin Vickers though.  

[Rick Rawlings 133]

3 hours ago, catch said:

Where are these guns 1 and 2  RR ? Couldn't find them.

@Polovski

Going from memory here, so it may not be worth much but in the key bindings I think there is an option for that? It may be, like, main guns and all guns? It could just be legacy code from CFS3 and might not do anything, or I could be completely wrong  and it isn't there and I am thinking of a different game! 

[catch 81]

10 hours ago, Rick Rawlings said:

Going from memory here, so it may not be worth much but in the key bindings I think there is an option for that? It may be, like, main guns and all guns? It could just be legacy code from CFS3 and might not do anything, or I could be completely wrong  and it isn't there and I am thinking of a different game! 

Right. Thanks for clearing that up RR. 

I guess Pol will come back with some answers in the fullness of time. I am however reluctant to pester him ceaselessly because he has patches and stuff to work on.

 

[Rick Rawlings 133]

Hmm. Kind of to my surprise, it works! In the Keybindings you have to set one button to "Guns Only" and the other to "Cannons". Now, just don't ask me which is which...

 

[catch 81]

Excellent work Rick.  I shall have a fiddle.

Now all we need is to have the Lewis fire upwards in any of the various tilt down positions. Without wasting ammo on the Vickers. 

[Rick Rawlings 133]

I'm going to guess that the reason they haven't implemented it is that in real life, IIRC, the Foster mount only locks at the top and then just slides down the rail. So you would be flying the plane, supporting the weight and inertia of the gun, contending with recoil, "aiming" and trying not to collide with or overshoot your target. It would be difficult to model the difficulty of that when all we do to keep things perfectly steady and in control is push a button.

Edited May 8, 2021 by Rick Rawlings

[catch 81]

Well no-one said it would be easy.  However, changing Lewis drums in flight was arguably harder (Cecil Lewis has told of the difficulties and I think tried to avoid it if he could). The modelling in-game is just pushing a button with no wind resistance, slipstream forces, hands off control management (knee trembler), fumbling hands, gloves off or on?, swearing and shouting, drums smacking you in the face etc so it's hardly realistic. It's a game after all. So if we have changing drums modelled this simply why not firing upwards ? Both are historically accurate as difficult as they were. There may be some programing reason why it is not possible but if so the devs haven't piped up so who knows?

[+epower 23]

Catch,

I can only imagine  programming an upwards firing Lewis to be a staggering amount of work.   The whys and wherefore are a topic best left for a separate thread.

As for increasing the difficulty of the reload, more in keeping with Cecil Lewis' description during his 1963 BBC Great war interview, simply use the following protocol:

All key combinations must require the use of both hands.

 Left hand on the shift or Control Key, Right hand on the G key.  If you're not flying straight and level when you do this, good luck and God bless.    To simulate the changing of the drum you can do what I do and set a desk lamp over the monitor which you then need to place your hand upon for a slow count of 6 before hitting the reload key.  For early war AC lacking a Foster mount, I suggest remapping the reload command to a two key press - L Shift+ R perhaps.  Make sure stand up at your desk/ Simpit and perform the same slow count of six, before pressing the two keys.

 

Edited May 13, 2021 by epower

[VFC_Baxter 19]

Pardon my extensive ignorance but if there is more than one gunner on some planes then could we not just program that Lewis mount as another separate gunner position with zero horizontal arc?

[catch 81]

10 hours ago, epower said:

As for increasing the difficulty of the reload ....

Some imaginative thinking there epower .... OR SHOULD I SAY, ROGER LIVESEY, UNDERRATED AND LARGELY FORGOTTEN THESPIAN ! In any case, I should be very cautious implementing your ideas for fear of spilling my single malt. A matter of such gravity, I may be brought to tears. I guess I'll just push buttons.

 

10 hours ago, epower said:

I can only imagine  programming an upwards firing Lewis to be a staggering amount of work.   The whys and wherefore are a topic best left for a separate thread.

Roger, 

Hmmm. Do you think a new thread here or the wishlist [tl;dr] ?

[TROOPER117 146]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz... is it done yet?

(You know how fast those chaps just keep pushing out this stuff)  

[+epower 23]

My Dear Catch,

So very sorry that you spilled your single malt.  That doesn't sound very pleasant.  I would have thought a man of discernment and sophistication, one who holds the immortal Roger Livesey in such high regard, would have a specially designed single malt holder.  I understand that 22 years hence a Hun named Adolf Galland will install a cigar holder of similarly inspired design in his BF-109. 

Once you've secured said single malt, I do hope you'll give my protocol a try.  Pushing buttons, while amusing for a short while, soon loses immersion.  Each must fly as he sees fit but I'm just suggesting that there are other options.  Example in pic below. Note the shocking absence of bourbon holder mid left.

Cheers!

p.s. I hear you re: the wishlist item.  Logged that one on the SimHQ thread many moons ago.

 

 

Edited May 17, 2021 by epower

[Rick Rawlings 133]

Spade grip for the win! BUT, your speakers are definitely not keeping up with the rest of the rig!

[catch 81]

22 hours ago, epower said:

Example in pic below. Note the shocking absence of bourbon holder mid left.

I did note the bourbon tumbler was empty. Stout fellow. That is the best way, in my experience, to avoid inconvenient spills and the expense of a holder.

As for the 'pit, it is one of the cleanest and uncluttered I have ever seen ! Obviously shows a tidy and refined chap. Top hole.

Now, Roger is good. But Charles Chaplin is better. Particularly his Mutual and Essanay 2 reelers made during the Great War and much beloved by the troops. I'm a bit of a fan of the man. I make no apologies for that.

[Burning Beard 14]

That should be a scotch tumbler.

[+epower 23]

19 minutes ago, Burning Beard said:

That should be a scotch tumbler.

BB - My my, aren't we judgy.    Truth is I was long a fan of the single malts, Oban and Talisker being my favorites but as I grew older, the morning brain dwarf with the ice pick started showing up.  No idea why.  Good old "Murican Bourbon on the other hand treats me more gently the next day.

Catch - Look closer, the tumbler isn't quite empty... Funny you should mention CC.  You'll appreciate this.  When I was a lad in the early 70s, my father would take me to an old theater in the Fairfax section of Los Angeles.  It was run by an elderly couple who maintained, apparently, an archive of original newsreels, celluloid prints of old Laurel and Hardy, Charlie Chaplin and Buster Keaton films among others.  Talk about time Machine!  I don't recall seeing any of the great war 2 reelers though.

Rick Rawlings - Oh, I think you'd be surprised by how much oomph those Pebble V3 speakers pack.  In any event, I fly with Arctis 7 Steelseries headphones for the important missions like those of the DID Campaign.  As for the Sopwith grip, it has completely transformed WOFF flying on a number of levels, not the least of which is the added immersion factor when it comes time to reload the Lewis gun. 

Edited May 18, 2021 by epower

[Rick Rawlings 133]

Yes, I suppose keeping your knees together is good advice in any number of circumstances!

[catch 81]

CHARLIE CHAPLIN | Skating Scene - YouTube

 

[TROOPER117 146]

Brilliant mate!  

[+epower 23]

Classic stuff.  Now you've done it , Catch, luring me down another rabbit hole.  HERE is a link to the complete film "The Rink" (1916)

Sir Cecil Seltzer, C.O.D.  Sounds like a good name for a Wing Commander.

 

[catch 81]

I think we may be of a similar vintage epower although at opposite ends of the world. I burst into my teens pretty much at the beginning of the '70's and it was around this time that a tv station began broadcasting all of Chaplin's Mutual films from 1916/17 including "The Rink" of course. They blew me away and the guys genius in understanding the human condition has stayed with me ever since where you can laugh and cry at the same time. Some people hate him which I can't quite understand. I also love Buster Keaton. He was pretty amazing too.

It's also very interesting to see LA as it was back then in the outdoor scenes. Fashions, cars, landscape etc.

Edited May 18, 2021 by catch