FE2 Updates

[kurdistan1 61]

Hi Buddies!!!.how are you?may i ask a2 question about First Eagles 2?last Update of SF2 refer on Jul 2013 but in FE2 I have general game with no updates (Jul 2010)...is it true?we have not any updates for amazing FE2?!

and my second question : one of my favourite key of SF2 series is "Action View " or F12.i can drink a cup of tea or coffiee and seat back and watch an action movie!! but it is not work on FE2 series! is there any way to activated in game?

sorry about that. Somebody in CA  probably have an idea....I WISH...

[+VonS 1,424]

Last update patch for FE2 is dated July, 2010. SF2 received another couple of updates after that, sometime around 2012, and then a last patch in 2013. So, technically, SF2 received two or three more patches than FE2. I am assuming that the additional patches offered for SF2 were regarding DX10 shader upgrades. FE2 also has DX10 shaders, but they are not as fully implemented, for all effects, as in SF2. If I've missed some information, I'm sure that any patch update specialists lurking on these forums will be willing to pitch in with more technical details.

In terms of the action view (from SF2), I don't think that it works in FE2. It is easy to test, though; simply copy the action view setting from your SF2 Controls/Default.ini file into the same file in FE2, choose a key combination for the entry, save, and test. I may have tested that out a few years ago but I don't think that I had any results - otherwise I would have posted regarding the test.

Cheers,

Von S

[kurdistan1 61]

Tnx Von S.but it isnt work

[+Trotski 936]

F12 dont not work, I have experimented with it, and its a non starter, unfortunatley FE is not as "developed" as SF, which is a crying shame, as it is crying out for much love and attention,  if they both worked off the same engine, then they could be combined, however, TK in his short sighted wisdom, has abandoned FE snd SF which is a travesty. I totally get where you are coming from with the F12 issue too, as it would be well cool if it had that option. 

[FalconC45 162]

SF2 july update locked few .CAT files if I remember correctly due to fews bad actors who stole few .LODs for a Civ game and took credit for the models. TK locked few .CAT files the .LOD files were in including the EFX files. So be lucky the FE2 CAT are true open structured.

Since then TK didn't trust modders.

Falcon

[kurdistan1 61]

Ok Falcon .but original FE2 Plane and ground objects belong to original CAT of FE2.you mean we can combine FE2's aircraft or groundobjects with SF2 game ? to create something like WWII Mod of SF2 series ?but this time A SPECIAL GREAT WAR version?!! is it true?

[+Trotski 936]

Yes you can adapt FE aircraft terrains etc. To work with SF, however, the AI behaviour, and the FM of the aircraft in SF work , or are coded differently, so when you use FE aircraft etc in SF, they can act erratically, I have experienced the aircraft refusing to take off, or instead of taking off, and flying to the next waypoint, they taxi there instead. There are other issues too I expect, but I haven't explored the whole concept thoroughly as it is a pointless exercise. 

[kurdistan1 61]

Yes.its true.there are many problems in this way .but yet I think its worth the effort...

[+Trotski 936]

I think thiswould be a " desireable " thing  too, however, as it is such a monumental task, and as of now, no one has even attempted it, I think it unlikely to ever be something attempted or completed. Pretty much everything would have to be converted to the SF engine, from the ground up, and, as FE works just fine as it stands, al be it with some restrictions, I know of no one who would be willing to undergo this process, without a large team of modders and testers to accomplish it. 

[kurdistan1 61]

3 hours ago, trotski00 said:

I think thiswould be a " desireable " thing  too, however, as it is such a monumental task, and as of now, no one has even attempted it, I think it unlikely to ever be something attempted or completed. Pretty much everything would have to be converted to the SF engine, from the ground up, and, as FE works just fine as it stands, al be it with some restrictions, I know of no one who would be willing to undergo this process, without a large team of modders and testers to accomplish it. 

its absoulotly true.....

[+VonS 1,424]

Interesting points gents - as far as I remember, "wilmartson" attempted to incorporate several FE/FE2 aircraft into SF2 a few yrs. ago -- a gallery of representative pics. is located over here (scroll right to see the rest of the pics.).

While there may be some action-view benefits to that, you lose the higher-res terrain and more subtle lighting/sfumato effects, cloud effects and whatnot, of FE2, by moving everything over to the SF2 engine.

One other (oddity?) to keep in mind is that the FM engine in SF2 is not identical to the one in FE2 (for example, the F4U post-WWII Corsair has a top speed in the 750s kph in SF2; throwing the same data ini into FE2 gives an inaccurate top speed in the 880s kph). In short, air density seems to be modeled differently in FE2, to display better the lighter-handling qualities of WWI aircraft. Theoretically, it is possible to upgrade all FE2 FMs for SF2. I have, for example, upgraded the FE2 data ini for Geezer's Mk.I Gladiator for SF2, for one of my early WWII FM packs - but I would certainly not bother upgrading the 220+ data inis in my big FE2 FM packs, for SF2 - not worth the trouble in my opinion since I fly FE2 (and WoFF) mostly, anyway.

General rule of thumb - the SF2 FM engine is better suited for jet aircraft, but may be made "to work" acceptably for WWII prop aircraft and 1930s stuff too. The period from the dawn of flight up to about 1920s barnstormers is better modeled (the floating quality of wooden aircraft, etc.) in FE2. I think that there were some (beta-stage) attempts to create inter-war scenarios for FE2 too several years ago (Geezer made some 1930s bomb packs, etc., also the Gladiator and one or two other aircraft) -- but as far as I know there was no further development in those areas. It's of course possible that some users are flying early WWII (or inter-war) scenarios in FE2.

I've gone in the other direction, of keeping such scenarios for SF2, since many of the data inis for WWII aircraft were done for SF2 anyway (less work that way, to tweak things within the sim they were initially tweaked for).

Cheers all and happy flying (in FE2 and SF2),

Von S

Edited June 18, 2022 by VonS
Edited post.

[+Trotski 936]

I have flown some FE aircraft in SF, and they seemed to work ok, but not all of them will, and as you point out, the FM's are totally different. The long and short of it is, as I previously stated, whilst the idea is desirable, it is not really feasible, without huge amounts of coding and fiddling around, which is just really not worth it, especially when there are more up to date WWI sims available, such as BH&H which blows FE out of the water, not of course that I am saying FE is not worth bothering about, as that is far from the case, however, if like myself and Eagle114th are working on a new "campaign" or story line, which starts in WWI and then flows through to modern day, we are utilising both FE, and SF independently of each other. To do a full on merging of FE and SF, is a pointless and ridiculously time consuming exercise, which, considering the age of the engine, and the limitations of crossover from FE to SF, is futile. Yes things like the F12 issue are a bit irritating, but not really deal breaking in the great scheme of things, I have learned to live with it personally.

[kurdistan1 61]

Tnx VonS and of course  trotski00 and Dear FalconC45

The reason I'm interested in this is the smaller nature of the Air Force. For example, in the Imperial Iranian Air Force(IIAF), some planes flew at a time when the great powers were obsolete in the Air Force.for example : Adax, Fury,  Hawker Hind, and Bréguet 14 and 19 of the great war planes in Iran flew around the 1940s and '50s,, or the Thunderbolt and Hurricane  were active in the 1960s, or even the T-33 at the end of the Iran-Iraq war  .....It was removed and continued to be used for training flights.

Another reason is the possibility of using the key F12 as i said first, which is contrary to the usability in SF2 not in FE2.

[+Trotski 936]

I totally understand your desire, however, I see no real way around the issue, sometimes we have to work with the tools we are given. However in this case, we are looking at a rather unique set of circumstances, where obsolete equipment is in general use when more advanced types are in general issue. I dont know how one could address this problem satisfactorily to be honest, it would be brilliant to be able to merge both FE and SF into one, however, it is not really a viable option, without huge amounts of tinkering and modification "under the hood" Unfortunately, due to TK's silly stance on this, we are not able to get to the core of the 2 sims , or rather not in enough detail, to be able to re calibrate the whole thing and make it "better" 

On one side of the coin, I sort of understand TK's attitude, it is his intellectual property after all, however, there are also arguments to be made that as the 2 sims are getting on in years now, and that any modification to the whole setup, would not be a financial issue for TK. But this is a long standing conversation, and one it would seem, that has no logical solution to it. Waiting for TK to extractum digitum, is a vain hope, we are still awaiting his promise of updating SF to bring it into Win 10 added compatibility, another forlorn hope methinks !!