Crashing During CAP missions in mercenary campaign on desert map

[petrouvis 3]

Greetings anyone who sees this topic, i have been having problems while playing the 1975 Desert Fury campaign as a mercenary. To be precise when i do a close air protection mission regardless of aircraft or weapons when i order my wingmen to engage after a bit the game crashes to desktop and this happens 100% of the cases on two different installs, in two different computers. I tried stock SF2 and I tried installing again and nothing has changed, the problem persists. My game version is July 2013 with the expansion packs and no DLC, any help is appreciated.

[UllyB 1,206]

Did the game , when it crashes, give any error ? If it does, which is it ? If you wanna get help, you have to let us know all the data available to a better asses of the matter.

If the game gives no error, which would be odd, then the problem could get messy. It needs every corner of your installation checked, any recent changes, any new plane, weapon or mod added, any filed edited, any strange behavior previously reported etc

Sometimes people assume to know to "transform" a SF1 environment plane to SF2 one, but they could missed something. Sometimes one can edit a file and write down, let's say a LARGE airstrip, for a large plane, but on the ground there isn't one and then game crashes when you try to pilot that large plane.It could be many things...

One more thing: when you do changes, make them gradually (checking FIRST that things work before implementing new changes), especially in SF2 environment and if you don't quite know what you're doing, take notes, you might need them if things go sideways. :)

Edited April 11, 2023 by UllyB

[petrouvis 3]

26 minutes ago, UllyB said:

Did the game , when it crashes, give any error ? If it does, which is it ? If you wanna get help, you have to let us know all the data available to a better asses of the matter.

If the game gives no error, which would be odd, then the problem could get messy. It needs every corner of your installation checked, any recent changes, any new plane, weapon or mod added, any filed edited, any strange behavior previously reported etc

Sometimes people assume to know to "transform" a SF1 environment plane to SF2 one, but they could missed something. Sometimes one can edit a file and write down, let's say a LARGE airstrip, for a large plane, but on the ground there isn't one and then game crashes when you try to pilot that large plane.It could be many things...

One more thing: when you do changes, make them gradually (checking FIRST that things work before implementing new changes), especially in SF2 environment and if you don't quite know what you're doing, take notes, you might need them if things go sideways. :)

Thanks for answering the game when it crashes gives no error it just goes to desktop also i have no mods added I am running the game stock and on my other computer that i have mods everything works perfectly except that mission type on that map and campaign.

[Righteous26 70]

The base game does not appear to be written for modern multicore processors. When you merge and order your wingmen to engage the computer does the same with nearby enemies. This increase in loading on the CPU can cause a crash. SF2 likely can not use the full power of your CPU. I have had similar problems. You may try moving the game to an SSD or a drive connected to your motherboard if it is on a USB drive. The increased data transfer rates may help.

[petrouvis 3]

11 minutes ago, Righteous26 said:

The base game does not appear to be written for modern multicore processors. When you merge and order your wingmen to engage the computer does the same with nearby enemies. This increase in loading on the CPU can cause a crash. SF2 likely can not use the full power of your CPU. I have had similar problems. You may try moving the game to an SSD or a drive connected to your motherboard if it is on a USB drive. The increased data transfer rates may help.

Okay but why it always happens in the mercenary campaign on the desert map particularly it seems odd to me when everything else is fine.

[Righteous26 70]

It depends on what it has to load. There could be more units in that campaign. That means more in the air at one time.

[petrouvis 3]

23 minutes ago, Righteous26 said:

It depends on what it has to load. There could be more units in that campaign. That means more in the air at one time.

I see well thanks for the reply I will try other campaigns and see if I have problems there.

[UllyB 1,206]

14 hours ago, Righteous26 said:

The base game does not appear to be written for modern multicore processors. When you merge and order your wingmen to engage the computer does the same with nearby enemies. This increase in loading on the CPU can cause a crash. SF2 likely can not use the full power of your CPU. I have had similar problems. You may try moving the game to an SSD or a drive connected to your motherboard if it is on a USB drive. The increased data transfer rates may help.

I disagree. I run it on a Win 10 system. I ran it on a Win7 system, too and NEVER crashed because of one core story. It's not that. Maybe the system has less RAM , VRAM, corrupted files, you name it etc.

Edited April 12, 2023 by UllyB

[UllyB 1,206]

18 hours ago, petrouvis said:

Thanks for answering the game when it crashes gives no error it just goes to desktop also i have no mods added I am running the game stock and on my other computer that i have mods everything works perfectly except that mission type on that map and campaign.

Well if it's not that tell us what system exactly you have. Is it a laptop (I hope not), is it Win 10 , Win XP ? I already said that you have to give here all the data if you expect anyone to help. It's the last time I will inquire about that, next time you are on your own if you will provide insufficient data.

1975 Desert Fury campaign is a stock  one ? I never heard of it. If it's not, than  why do you say there is nothing modded ?

Edited April 12, 2023 by UllyB

[Righteous26 70]

1 hour ago, UllyB said:

I disagree. I run it on a Win 10 system. I ran it on a Win7 system, too and NEVER crashed because of one core story. It's not that. Maybe the system has less RAM , VRAM, corrupted files, you name it etc.

Strange, I run it on Windows 10 x64 and I have had what he describes happen. The CPU clearly bogs down if too many entities are active and the game will crash. I have plenty of RAM, VRAM and no corrupted files. Some of these campaigns are clearly more than the game was designed to handle.

[petrouvis 3]

2 hours ago, UllyB said:

Well if it's not that tell us what system exactly you have. Is it a laptop (I hope not), is it Win 10 , Win XP ? I already said that you have to give here all the data if you expect anyone to help. It's the last time I will inquire about that, next time you are on your own if you will provide insufficient data.

1975 Desert Fury campaign is a stock  one ? I never heard of it. If it's not, than  why do you say there is nothing modded ?

Sorry for not being forthcoming with details, I have two personal Computers, the one I am currently using is an HP laptop(I am away from home) with an i7-8565U that reaches 4.6GHz,4GB of Ram,125GB SSD,1TB HDD and a MX130 2GB Vram graphics Card, my  other computer has a Ryzen 7 3600x,16GB Ram,1 TB SSD ,RTX3060 12GB graphics card. Both computers play SF2 stock and modded with no problems except the one I have about the mercenary campaign. The screenshot is the campaign I am having problems with  and the settings and plane that I am using and the campaign is stock i didn't add it through any mods and i am not running any mods.

Edited April 12, 2023 by petrouvis
lack of details

[UllyB 1,206]

2 hours ago, petrouvis said:

Sorry for not being forthcoming with details, I have two personal Computers, the one I am currently using is an HP laptop(I am away from home) with an i7-8565U that reaches 4.6GHz,4GB of Ram,125GB SSD,1TB HDD and a MX130 2GB Vram graphics Card, my  other computer has a Ryzen 7 3600x,16GB Ram,1 TB SSD ,RTX3060 12GB graphics card. Both computers play SF2 stock and modded with no problems except the one I have about the mercenary campaign. The screenshot is the campaign I am having problems with  and the settings and plane that I am using and the campaign is stock i didn't add it through any mods and i am not running any mods.

 

 

Well the second rig is very good but if you say it also crashes on it, the first won't matter to debate about it. I checked, the campaign you are referring to is stock (though I never tried it and never heard about it, it happens) . I tried it, with the mercenary team and it works) The first screenshot is after the game loads and I switched to autopilot for taking off (notice the mercenary insignia on the F-4 fuselage). So for me it works. My guess is that somewhere, there on your computer/installation the path to those mercenary aircraft is not where it should be, so the game, when starts can't find it and of course it crashes. Take a screenshot of your windows explorer interface installation "X:\...\Objects\Aircraft\" folder. The second screenshot included shows mine as it should look.(Ignore other folders that are not default YELLOW). Do you have, there, the folders I encircled with red ? If you don't, bring them there or bring there/copy the folder is missing (with anything that is inside it). If you do have them exactly like in the picture, then it has to be something else, we'll figure out then, after you check what I suggested.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 12, 2023 by UllyB

[UllyB 1,206]

3 hours ago, Righteous26 said:

Strange, I run it on Windows 10 x64 and I have had what he describes happen. The CPU clearly bogs down if too many entities are active and the game will crash. I have plenty of RAM, VRAM and no corrupted files. Some of these campaigns are clearly more than the game was designed to handle.

I pump to it a lot more than you think you have on your computer in matter of details and quantities and it (still) works, it doesn't bog at all so I disagree, again. I have a I-7 8700 3.2 Ghz CPU, 16 GB RAM,  RTX 3080 Ti 12GB VRAM. I had an older the system , without the new CPU and the new graphics card (with a MSI GTX 1070-OC, 4GB VRAM graphics card and a i-7 3770 CPU) and it still worked as I mentioned before without a flaw on Win 7 x64 and Win 10 64x.

My guess is that something is wrong with... YOUR configuration/computer and not the other way around, but I might be wrong...:)

Edited April 12, 2023 by UllyB

[Righteous26 70]

25 minutes ago, UllyB said:

I pump to it a lot more than you think you have on your computer in matter of details and quantities and it (still) works, it doesn't bog at all so I disagree, again. I have a I-7 8700 3.2 Ghz CPU, 16 GB RAM,  RTX 3080 Ti 12GB VRAM. I had an older the system , without the new CPU and the new graphics card (with a MSI GTX 1070-OC, 4GB VRAM graphics card and a i-7 3770 CPU) and it still worked as I mentioned before without a flaw on Win 7 x64 and Win 10 64x.

My guess is that something is wrong with... YOUR configuration/computer and not the other way around, but I might be wrong...:)

Not at all. I have all settings maxed out and it has not happened for months. It is rare, but I can see that the CPU bogs down in certain instances because the game is slowing down and it's not just the graphics. The engine is having problems keeping up with everything. It sorts itself out most of the time but it has crashed sometimes as well. I moved it to an SSD and that seemed to help. My CPU is an i5 8700 at 2.8GHz with 16GB RAM and the video card is an RTX 3060 with 8GB VRAM. The SF2 textures and shaders aren't taxing either of these cards. Hence, it's not a graphics issue.

[petrouvis 3]

2 hours ago, UllyB said:

 

Well the second rig is very good but if you say it also crashes on it, the first won't matter to debate about it. I checked, the campaign you are referring to is stock (though I never tried it and never heard about it, it happens) . I tried it, with the mercenary team and it works) The first screenshot is after the game loads and I switched to autopilot for taking off (notice the mercenary insignia on the F-4 fuselage). So for me it works. My guess is that somewhere, there on your computer/installation the path to those mercenary aircraft is not where it should be, so the game, when starts can't find it and of course it crashes. Take a screenshot of your windows explorer interface installation "X:\...\Objects\Aircraft\" folder. The second screenshot included shows mine as it should look.(Ignore other folders that are not default YELLOW). Do you have, there, the folders I encircled with red ? If you don't, bring them there or bring there/copy the folder is missing (with anything that is inside it). If you do have them exactly like in the picture, then it has to be something else, we'll figure out then, after you check what I suggested.

 

 

 

 

I have those files exactly where they should be although my problem is not with the start of the campaign  but with CAP missions in the campaign. The campaign starts normally and I can play CAS and strike missions but when I play a CAP mission and I order my wingmen to engage the game crashes to desktop with no error.

[UllyB 1,206]

2 hours ago, Righteous26 said:

Not at all. I have all settings maxed out and it has not happened for months. It is rare, but I can see that the CPU bogs down in certain instances because the game is slowing down and it's not just the graphics. The engine is having problems keeping up with everything. It sorts itself out most of the time but it has crashed sometimes as well. I moved it to an SSD and that seemed to help. My CPU is an i5 8700 at 2.8GHz with 16GB RAM and the video card is an RTX 3060 with 8GB VRAM. The SF2 textures and shaders aren't taxing either of these cards. Hence, it's not a graphics issue.

i-5 ? i-5 it's a kind of no horse but not donkey either, it's a shitty CPU, there is NO comparison between i-5 and i-7 class. Of course, that's my opinion after 35 years of hardware engineering. i-5 it's a i-7 wannabe built to reduce the costs, it has its cache halved etc.  i-7 is a TITAN rivaling even with today's CPUs. It NEVER crashed on those system I told you about, NOT EVEN ONCE in 10-15 years with this game, so that instability you're experiencing, even from time to time, is not FROM THE GAME, it's from your system whatever it might be. I didn't see how you set up your rig to tell you what is going wrong there, but I'm telling you, it's not what you think it is.

As you, yourself said/admitted/pointed out, it's NOT a graphics issue.

I don't mind if you dislike my commentaries but If you dislike them so much why bother answer them ? ;)

Edited April 12, 2023 by UllyB

[Righteous26 70]

8 minutes ago, UllyB said:

i-5 ? i-5 it's a kind of no horse but not donkey either, it's a shitty CPU, there is NO comparison between i-5 and i-7 class. Of course, that's my opinion after 35 years of hardware engineering. i-5 it's a i-7 wannabe built to reduce the costs, it has its cache halved etc.  i-7 is a TITAN rivaling even with today's CPUs. It NEVER crashed on those system I told you about, NOT EVEN ONCE in 10-15 years with this game, so that instability you're experiencing, even from time to time, is not FROM THE GAME, it's from your system whatever it might be. I didn't see how you set up your rig to tell you what is going wrong there, but I'm telling you, it's not what you think it is.

As you, yourself said/admitted/pointed out, it's NOT a graphics issue.

I don't mind if you dislike my commentaries but If you dislike them so much why bother answer them ? ;)

I doubt SF2 spends much processing time in the space between an i5 and an i7. It's not designed to use either chip to its maximum performance. Hence, you won't see an increase in performance. SF2 is not a high end game requiring that sort of horsepower.

Please note I claimed it happens only rarely and I can't replicate the issue even now.

[UllyB 1,206]

26 minutes ago, Righteous26 said:

I doubt SF2 spends much processing time in the space between an i5 and an i7. It's not designed to use either chip to its maximum performance. Hence, you won't see an increase in performance. SF2 is not a high end game requiring that sort of horsepower.

Please note I claimed it happens only rarely and I can't replicate the issue even now.

Ok then. If you can replicate just randomly, then it could be a lot of things, agree ? Are you familiar with Ocama blade's theory ? Between two explanations , one sofisticated , the other simplier, the odds to be right for the second one it's much higher than for the the first one.

And you are wrong about dimsissing that double the cache for a CPU it wouldn't count. It's the cache that makes the difference (plus the frequency of course the core works, but let's say they have the same core frequency for the argument) between two CPUs, one with full cache and the other with half of it. So saying that processing time (between i-5 and i-7) is insignifiant is a little far fetched. The more the load, the less time spent by the full cache CPU to  process the data to the motherboard bus, so a full cache CPU wins everytime by far a race with a halved one. That is why a full cache CPU is so expensive comparing with a no horse/no donkey one. :)

Edited April 12, 2023 by UllyB

[UllyB 1,206]

1 hour ago, petrouvis said:

I have those files exactly where they should be although my problem is not with the start of the campaign  but with CAP missions in the campaign. The campaign starts normally and I can play CAS and strike missions but when I play a CAP mission and I order my wingmen to engage the game crashes to desktop with no error.

Oh, It seems that I got it all wrong. My apologies. I think you realize that I don't have time to play all the campaign to see which one is a CAP, don't you ? If that's the case, check first what planes types are into your formation. Check if you have them in those folder. If they are where they were supposed to be, then check if they are MERCENARY (country=MERCENARY). Maybe they aren't. If they are, check if you have the base accordingly to your planes requirements. Maybe the airstrip you are taking off with a wingman's plane that requires a medium strip is not..medium, it's a small one. In this case game will crash. But to check them you have to deflate the archive of the game where the campaign files are located. Do you know how to do that with SF2 ?

Edited April 12, 2023 by UllyB

[petrouvis 3]

14 minutes ago, UllyB said:

Oh, It seems that I got it all wrong. My apologies. I think you realize that I don't have time to play all the campaign to see which one is a CAP, don't you ? If that's the case, check first what planes types are into your formation. Check if you have them in those folder. If they are where they were supposed to be, then check if they are MERCENARY (country=MERCENARY). Maybe they aren't. If they are, check if you have the base accordingly to your planes requirements. Maybe the airstrip you are taking off with a wingman's plane that requires a medium strip is not..medium, it's a small one. In this case game will crash. But to check them you have to deflate the archive of the game where the campaign files are located. Do you know how to do that with SF2 ?

All my wingmen are F-4D's just like my plane  and the runway is long enough so no problems on take-off or crashes there.Also i have no idea how to deflate the games archive. But thanks for the help until now.

Edited April 12, 2023 by petrouvis

[Righteous26 70]

28 minutes ago, UllyB said:

Ok then. If you can replicate just randomly, then it could be a lot of things, agree ? Are you familiar with Ocama blade's theory ? Between two explanations , one sofisticated , the other simplier, the odds to be right for the second one it's much higher than for the the first one.

And you are wrong about dimsissing that double the cache for a CPU it wouldn't count. It's the cache that makes the difference (plus the frequency of course the core works, but let's say they have the same core frequency for the argument) between two CPUs, one with full cache and the other with half of it. So saying that processing time (between i-5 and i-7) is insignifiant is a little far fetched. The more the load, the less time spent by the full cache CPU to  process the data to the motherboard bus, so a full cahce CPU wins everytime by far a race with a halved one. That is why a full cache CPU is so expensive comparing with a no horse/no donkey one. :)

It's called Occam's Razor.

I said the processing difference does not matter for SF2 as it can't take advantage of it. Besides a lot of benchmarks put i5 and i7 performance at about a 10% difference even when performing timed tasks.

[Righteous26 70]

Is the CAP mission the first or second mission you flew?

If it is the second, were you successful on the first?

[UllyB 1,206]

15 hours ago, petrouvis said:

All my wingmen are F-4D's just like my plane  and the runway is long enough so no problems on take-off or crashes there.Also i have no idea how to deflate the games archive. But thanks for the help until now.

A runway is not LONG, MEDIUM etc  because YOU consider it's enough LOL. It has a designation in airstrip files (TERRAINNAME_targets.ini file, see the pictures!) ! If it says there that it's a SHORT one, and in your plane's file it says it needs a MEDIUM one, the game will crash. That was what I was saying. Take a careful look to how things are going in the following phrases please.

 

This is the short rundown to have a picture in your mind about airstrip sizes:

Sizes for runaways (See targets.ini file in each terrain!)

runaway 1 (MEDIUM - 2500m)
runaway 2 (MEDIUM SMALL* - 2500m)
runaway 3 (SMALL - 1200m)
runaway 4 (LARGE - 3000m)
runaway 5 (MEDIUM - 2500m)
runaway 6 (MEDIUM - 2500m)

 

Game, the whole game, has archives hulks ("CAT" extensions). In it , except planes 3D models and sounds (I think !?) you can find EVERYTHING this game has, from decals to terrains. There is a special archive software , you can find it in the download section (make a little research on your own if you want to learn things nad make , generally, things easier for you).

The TERRAINNAME_target.ini file, for EACH MAP, is in the X:\...\StrikeFighters2\Terrains\TERRAINNAME folder!

Data for each aircraft is in its AIRCRAFTNAME_DATA.INI file ! Look for the line:

MinBaseSize=MEDIUM/SMALL/LARGE (There will be just one of them, not all three!)

It's tough isn't it ? And you ain't seen nothing yet...:D

Edited April 13, 2023 by UllyB

[UllyB 1,206]

15 hours ago, Righteous26 said:

Is the CAP mission the first or second mission you flew?

If it is the second, were you successful on the first?

None of them, at least for me. I played two of them and there was no CAP yet. They are randomized. Missions type in a campaign are given by the percentage allocated in the campaign files by the user who made/created the campaign. If there is 10% CAPs chances fixed in its file, then , in the unfolding of the current campaign , there will be 1 in 10 chances to get a CAP mission etc.The same for the other types of missions.

Edited April 13, 2023 by UllyB

[UllyB 1,206]

16 hours ago, Righteous26 said:

It's called Occam's Razor.

I said the processing difference does not matter for SF2 as it can't take advantage of it. Besides a lot of benchmarks put i5 and i7 performance at about a 10% difference even when performing timed tasks.

You are confusing POWER, raw power given by a full cache with...threads thecnology which mean NOTHING for older 32 bit games of course. Also you are forgetting an important factor, old 32 bit games, especially flight simulators are very dependable on the CPU raw power (bigger is better, so, again, you are wrong) rather than the graphics card.

At the same clock frequency, the differece between a i-5 and a i-7 is bigger than you say there. It's not 10%, it's at least 50% depending on the frequency (the more the frequency, the more tha gap between them, keep that in mind). I am talking here about THE SAME CPU frequency !  So, again, you are wrong. You are a persistent person in being wrong instead of proving me wrong aren't you ? Rememeber that if one goes forward from a wrong presumption, its conclusion will be, you guessed, wrong, too ;) Maybe you learn something here after all. :)

PS - Ocam's blade is the same with Ocam's razor. Potatoes, patatoes ;)

Edited April 13, 2023 by UllyB