Kind of new to SF2 - with questions

[Mr_Tayto 32]

Hi all, 

 

I've owned SF2 for a few years now, but couldn't get on with it. Let me explain; I've been a flight sim guy for 30-odd years, having played my first flight sims on Atari STE. I've been a WW2 pilot flying Spitfires, P-51s, B-17s... Jumping to F-16s, F-14s, A-7s. My real interest has always been in "non-glass" cockpit combat jets, but sims didn't really exist for them as far as I could see. Until SF2. The reason I couldn't deal with SF2 was that I didn't have the physical set-up with my PC; it's a sim where you need to look at instruments (no HUD) and around you for SAMs and muzzle flashes, so I set about buying an IR tracker (Delanclip) and some brackets for my HOTAS. I was ready./

 

I came to SF2 late, having only even heard about it a few years ago. You couldn't believe my glee when I saw it was based around Korean- and Vietnam-war aircraft and on until the early 80s. I love the plethora of mods and the tight community, even for such an old game.

 

I have questions though; while I understand the game is not a strict "cold start" type sim (like DCS), on the other hand it holds no hands. I know - in theory - how to land on a boat, but the game still needs me to know the gear, flaps and landing speed of a lot of aircraft, and doesn't signpost this anywhere. I guess I'm looking for a resource somewhere.

 

Same with bombing; I love that most aircraft don't have a CCIP (although I downloaded Migbuster's DIANE mod for the A-6, a plane I love), I struggle with bombing. Flying the F-105 I looked at some 1960's resources and managed it in Hi-Lo-Hi missions from Thailand, but that was dive bombing. Flying through flak at <500ft and popping up into radar controlled flak and SAMs makes it a bit trickier and I've missed a lot more than I've hit. I'd love someone experienced in A4s and F4s to teach me there.

 

Then there's mission types; flak suppression in aircraft without an RWR seems nuts, and ridiculously difficult, even with the ability to look out the cockpit. I'd like to "turn off" the HUD one day but I'd never find the targets without it (not to mention managing airspeed on carrier landings).

 

So if anyone is still playing regularly and wants to help me with the above, I'd be very grateful. 

[+EricJ 3,954]

Devin Horner has a good tutorial on YouTube for the Vietnam era planes, or the users here can give you tips. I'd suggest going to the Downloads section and in the SF2 Terrains section, download The Range map. It's an enemy free map where you can practice with weapons and the like without getting shot at and so on. It has a Red Range too for the Russian/enemy planes, etc. A lot of it is finding resources as TK despite his faults, as I understand was an aeronautical engineer, or something like that anyway, so a lot of the stuff you find in manuals can be used in the game. But it also helps us to know what you're flying so we can help you better too. There's so many planes, and default planes that narrowing it down will help us help you.

[Mr_Tayto 32]

29 minutes ago, EricJ said:

Devin Horner has a good tutorial on YouTube for the Vietnam era planes, or the users here can give you tips. I'd suggest going to the Downloads section and in the SF2 Terrains section, download The Range map. It's an enemy free map where you can practice with weapons and the like without getting shot at and so on. It has a Red Range too for the Russian/enemy planes, etc. A lot of it is finding resources as TK despite his faults, as I understand was an aeronautical engineer, or something like that anyway, so a lot of the stuff you find in manuals can be used in the game. But it also helps us to know what you're flying so we can help you better too. There's so many planes, and default planes that narrowing it down will help us help you.

Thanks for the reply.

 

Finding Devin Horner has helped me a lot, I've been glued to his videos for a couple of months now, and learned a lot about how to fly and fight from them. I will look at The Range map, I've been crying out for training missions to be honest, so that seems a good place to start. Somewhere to practice with a carrier  would be ideal.

 

I'm comfortable with land-based planes, pretty much. Even before the IR Tracking etc. I was happily running missions into NVN with 105s, having read enough about missions to know - just about - what to do. Carrier Ops is the dream, though. I want to fly the whole arsenal of Vietnam-era aircraft from ships. I've been most successful with the A-6 so far, I guess because she's pretty tame at landing speed (even though I bolter at least once per trap!)

[+EricJ 3,954]

The F-4 is a pain in the ass to trap. I learned by dropping flaps and watching my speed. I do it by eye since I zoom in for landings (just so I can watch the deck and stuff). it sinks pretty bad but once you figure out how to land it, it's not hard to trap. I stick with the Super Hornet (modern era flyer here), so it's not that difficult to land, once you figure everything out it's fairly easy, given the modern era flight controls and how the plane is setup and so on. But the F-4 is just about maintaining speed so you don't sink too much really. Other than that it's somewhat easy to fly. I don't like flying the F-4 because it's a flying brick, and the Super Hornet, depending on its version, isn't that much fast on most throttle settings, but it has it's charms and I stick with that. I've never done a Skyhawk so I can't offer any tips with that, you'll have to ask some other people about the Skyhawk, but the A-6 is a nice plane, I give it two thumbs up on how it flies and so on, always liked flying it though.

[Mr_Tayto 32]

So @EricJ I watched the Devin video on bombing tactics - it was already watched so I must have seen it several years ago, which explains my Hi-Lo-Hi instincts on the 105. Makes a lot more sense with a regular reflex sight now.

[+EricJ 3,954]

I guess so, I honestly don't mess with the Vietnam-era planes (I have an ambivalent view of the war itself), but I'm spoiled by modern CCIP and the like. it's good that you viewed it though I'm sure it was a good refresher. I'm sure if I took some time to learn the Vietnam-era planes I could expand my knowledge, but then again I haven't flown in a few months, so there's that.

[Mr_Tayto 32]

1 minute ago, EricJ said:

I guess so, I honestly don't mess with the Vietnam-era planes (I have an ambivalent view of the war itself), but I'm spoiled by modern CCIP and the like. it's good that you viewed it though I'm sure it was a good refresher. I'm sure if I took some time to learn the Vietnam-era planes I could expand my knowledge, but then again I haven't flown in a few months, so there's that.

I don't know why, but I'm drawn to them. I'm a historian by education, and the Vietnam war really appeals to me as a subject. In aviation terms it seems like such an inflection point in technology and tactics; for example NFWS being instigated due to experiences in VN, and also things like the first showing of SAMs, and how hard it was to counter even the SA2. Add to that analogue cockpits and tactical nuclear bombers being repurposed as CAS aircraft (two things that couldn't be further apart)... I'm not American, actually I'm Scottish, so no hangups on the war here, just a studied interest in the men and machines.

[+EricJ 3,954]

1 minute ago, Mr_Tayto said:

I don't know why, but I'm drawn to them. I'm a historian by education, and the Vietnam war really appeals to me as a subject. In aviation terms it seems like such an inflection point in technology and tactics; for example NFWS being instigated due to experiences in VN, and also things like the first showing of SAMs, and how hard it was to counter even the SA2. Add to that analogue cockpits and tactical nuclear bombers being repurposed as CAS aircraft (two things that couldn't be further apart)... I'm not American, actually I'm Scottish, so no hangups on the war here, just a studied interest in the men and machines.

That's fair and I think a lot of players here look at the Vietnam war as a pinnacle of aviation, and support the aviation side. My beef somewhat is the high rate of civilian casualties on the ground, I'm a former US Army Soldier, and I so far haven't killed a civilian between two combat deployments, so I have a sort of stuck up personality of the war. Anyway, it's mainly the tech that keeps me away. A lot of things were only done because of the level of tech. I have flown in the map at least with modern planes, and it's an interesting thing (imagine Hanoi with SA-10s and the like, yeesh!) given the technology ot today versus SA-2s and the like. It was a good thing that the SA-2 was what it was, and thankfully didn't down too many planes during that war.

[Mr_Tayto 32]

I agree wholeheartedly about the civilian casualties, and it's one (of many) reasons that both our countries are better off with professional armed forces. It's also in a weird way why I want to be better at bombing; the way the game works I can order my wingman to hit the target and if he is sufficiently skilled he will complete my mission for me, but I want to hit the target, and if I'm downtown I don't want to hit a civilian centre by mistake. If that makes sense.

 

I've also been taking advantage of the fantastic mod community here, and have downloaded the Falklands '82 and WOK mods. Next is Desert Storm 30AE, because that's the war I grew up with on TV and the one which started the fire of aviation for me (that and the Soviets in Afghanistan).

[+daddyairplanes 8,776]

one thing on the SAMs gents is the Rules of Engagement often kept the SAM crews safer than teh fighter crews. at least until 1972 by which time the defense were built up pretty thick

Desert Storm, gloves were off, if it radiated it was eating a HARM (to include the occasional BUFF tail gun!) it was more a DEAD fight than SEAD (destruction vs suppression)

go back to Allied Force and a strict ROE once again. while only 2 aircraft were downed over Serbia, sites werent allowed to be prosecuted unless they were absolutely sure that it was a SAM or AAA and that there would be no civilian casualties. but Allied tactics and tech did keep the Serb SAM crews on their toes and shut down most of the time so suppression did work

[+EricJ 3,954]

12 hours ago, Mr_Tayto said:

I agree wholeheartedly about the civilian casualties, and it's one (of many) reasons that both our countries are better off with professional armed forces. It's also in a weird way why I want to be better at bombing; the way the game works I can order my wingman to hit the target and if he is sufficiently skilled he will complete my mission for me, but I want to hit the target, and if I'm downtown I don't want to hit a civilian centre by mistake. If that makes sense.

 

I've also been taking advantage of the fantastic mod community here, and have downloaded the Falklands '82 and WOK mods. Next is Desert Storm 30AE, because that's the war I grew up with on TV and the one which started the fire of aviation for me (that and the Soviets in Afghanistan).

Yeah this is by far the best place for content. I mean there's DAT,  but then again the policies and the weird nature of the place turns me off, as while I haven't applied there, I stick mainly to here due to less drama and the like.

[Wrench 9,505]

Quote

I stick mainly to here due to less drama and the like.

and we have punch and pie!!!

[+Muesli 2,151]

The fun thing is... we're all here for flying AND for the sh*ts and giggles!

Enjoy SF and CA!

[Mr_Tayto 32]

So after some experimentation (and because I've always loved the plane), I decided to start "learning" carrier ops with the A-1, flying Steel Tiger missions - because again, they're pretty cool.

 

My first mission (with a new pilot, following the "Dead is dead" principle) was a milk run to the Vinh PT Boat base, which I dispatched fairly easily by rippling my entire load of M117s all over it. Took some HMG fire from the PTs themselves as I dropped in, but nothing that affected the plane, so I flew home and trapped (first time!). In the de-brief it seems I was "injured", so spent some time in Subic chasing nurses. 5 months, it seems 

 

Next mission was a looong flight from Yankee to the SVN/Laos border, (south of Da Nang) to deal with a HCMT camp, which I did with bombs, took fire again from the jungle so circled and rocketed a couple of squads before coming home. On the way back I noticed a right roll, looking out of the cockpit I see that my right flap had been shot off, but nothing major as it was easy enough to counter with light pressure left on the stick. Get all the way back to the ship, and despite her manoeuvring like she was dodging torpedoes I trap again on the first attempt, sans flaps!

 

 

 

Now, as pleased as I was with myself for a successful mission and a good trap, I wasn't prepared for what came next: Apparently for my work deleting a camp and a couple of VC squads in what was a fairly permissive environment, I received the Medal of Honour  Has anyone else had this before? Was it purely for a good mission, or was the fact I landed the Spad something to do with it? Score for the mission was 3000 I think.

Edited February 21 by Mr_Tayto

[+EricJ 3,954]

I've gotten the Medal Honor on The Range, but not sure how they come up with the way to award people.

[Wrench 9,505]

points accrued from targets destroyed

[Mr_Tayto 32]

2 hours ago, Wrench said:

points accrued from targets destroyed

CMH seems excessive for a few infantry squads on top of a camp. Mind you, they were very well hidden.