building a team ?

[names 8]

Hello,

When someone buys the rights to the SF 2 pc for the further development of Strike Fighters 2, do you think it would be difficult to find a team to do this job? I see that there are many people who are hoping for improvements in basic subjects such as graphics, terrain, avionics, but was it possible to find people who have the necessary knowledge and desire to achieve this job? It's very exciting to plan this job. Basically, is it possible to find a team to add a VR add-on to SF2,improve the graphics as much as possible, make them compatible with current systems?

(no, I'm not kidding) 

I am making some improvements, the results I have received make me hopeful. 

 

[names 8]

[Stratos 3,181]

No idea of what improvements you did, but buying the "rights" or even better the "source code" is very unlikely, unless you plan to expend a good amount of money.

[names 8]

47 minutes ago, Stratos said:

No idea of what improvements you did, but buying the "rights" or even better the "source code" is very unlikely, unless you plan to expend a good amount of money.

To be honest, I wonder if there will be a team that can do the job before I make them an offer. I can pay them the required amount within my means.

[Stratos 3,181]

No, you don't get what I mean. If you can get the Source code there are lot of modders that will keep improving the game for free like they did after all those years, what you will not be able to pay is the source code from TK, SF2 author and rights owner.

[+daddyairplanes 9,700]

time is the biggest aspect of getting the modders here on board. we got the skills, but most of the modders are in some state of retirement and are not willing to do this as "a job" for any amount of money. and those that contribute for free would do so on their schedule, not anyone else's

my thoughts on this (as a lottery daydream everytime powerball gets near $! Billion) are to get a few modders on board as more of a manager/mentor role, then head hunt college Game Development  students for the other jobs.

some aspects could even be done free to developer, having students compete for a position by doing a game task (most likely pit or aircraft models). winner gives IP from contest up but also secures a job

but i very much agree with Stratos, you'd need to be willing to pay TK a huge sum to get rights to his original products. not buy an island sums, but probably buy a really really nice 12 bedroom house in Austin nice. with cash left for a Maserati and dinner.

[+Erik 1,768]

9 hours ago, names said:

To be honest, I wonder if there will be a team that can do the job before I make them an offer. I can pay them the required amount within my means.

Since you're asking for blind commitments from the known talent here, should we also qualify you to see what is "within your means" to purchase the source code and fund development? Keep in mind that GTA V had a $265,000,000.00 (two hundred sixty-five million dollar) invested budget to bring it to market. Another well-known title, Destiny had a $500,000,000.00 (five hundred million dollar) invested budget to bring it to market. The below figures are 2% or less of the Destiny budget.

1.  $25,000.00 - $50,000.00
2.  $50,000.01 - $100,000.00
3.  $100,000.01 - $150,000.00
4.  $150,000.01 - $250,000.00
5.  $250,000.01 - $500,000.00
6.  $500,000.01 - $1,000,000.00
7.  $1,000.000.01 - $3,000,000.00
8.  $3,000,000.01 - $5,000,000.00
9.  $5,000,000.01 - $10,000,000.00

Do you plan to make this an online multiplayer experience or keep it a solo experience?

Sources: https://elevenlabs.io/blog/economics-of-video-game-development

 

[names 8]

1 hour ago, Erik said:

Since you're asking for blind commitments from the known talent here, should we also qualify you to see what is "within your means" to purchase the source code and fund development? Keep in mind that GTA V had a $265,000,000.00 (two hundred sixty-five million dollar) invested budget to bring it to market. Another well-known title, Destiny had a $500,000,000.00 (five hundred million dollar) invested budget to bring it to market. The below figures are 2% or less of the Destiny budget.

1.  $25,000.00 - $50,000.00
2.  $50,000.01 - $100,000.00
3.  $100,000.01 - $150,000.00
4.  $150,000.01 - $250,000.00
5.  $250,000.01 - $500,000.00
6.  $500,000.01 - $1,000,000.00
7.  $1,000.000.01 - $3,000,000.00
8.  $3,000,000.01 - $5,000,000.00
9.  $5,000,000.01 - $10,000,000.00

Do you plan to make this an online multiplayer experience or keep it a solo experience?

Sources: https://elevenlabs.io/blog/economics-of-video-game-development

 

Don't think of it as a commitment, I just want to find out if there is an environment where I can get into this job. 

 Before discussing the wage issue with the authorities, I wanted to ask if I could set up a team to start this business.Of course, I haven't discussed a fee with them yet, and I don't know how much they will ask for.

What do you think the cost of getting into this business is ?

For a start, a cost that could compete with the DCS World would actually be too much for me.

Also, as things are going well, it will be better for me to grow the business even more, for this it would be more correct to start with single player.

[+Erik 1,768]

6 minutes ago, names said:

Don't think of it as a commitment, I just want to find out if there is an environment where I can get into this job. 

 Before discussing the wage issue with the authorities, I wanted to ask if I could set up a team to start this business.Of course, I haven't discussed a fee with them yet, and I don't know how much they will ask for.

What do you think the cost of getting into this business is ?

For a start, a cost that could compete with the DCS World would actually be too much for me.

Also, as things are going well, it will be better for me to grow the business even more, for this it would be more correct to start with single player.

Your answer is minimally researched and disingenuous on its face. I started my numbers with $25,000.00 because that's the bare minimum I think it would take to buy the source code. The development of that source code to include new features and to modernize it is a bare minimum of $50,000.00. Without producing a single thing you're $75,000.00 invested with nothing to show. The talent alone starts at $90,000.00 per year per person and that doesn't include the investment in licensing for the software to write and produce your source into production. Relating this to building an Indie game, something cute and folksy like a farming game you run on an Android or iPhone, would be a mistake. A kludging production of something like that with budget artists and coders could come together for around $15,000.00 - $20,000.00 but a full blown Win11 production is not an Indie Game.  Fundamentally, if we're not talking about the same quantity of financial investment this conversation is pointless. No offense meant or implied.

 

[names 8]

40 minutes ago, Erik said:

Your answer is minimally researched and disingenuous on its face. I started my numbers with $25,000.00 because that's the bare minimum I think it would take to buy the source code. The development of that source code to include new features and to modernize it is a bare minimum of $50,000.00. Without producing a single thing you're $75,000.00 invested with nothing to show. The talent alone starts at $90,000.00 per year per person and that doesn't include the investment in licensing for the software to write and produce your source into production. Relating this to building an Indie game, something cute and folksy like a farming game you run on an Android or iPhone, would be a mistake. A kludging production of something like that with budget artists and coders could come together for around $15,000.00 - $20,000.00 but a full blown Win11 production is not an Indie Game.  Fundamentally, if we're not talking about the same quantity of financial investment this conversation is pointless. No offense meant or implied.

 

I started by asking questions here, so you might have thought I wasn't being sincere. If I first make an offer to the 'SF 2 pc' rights holders and make a contract with them and I can't find a good team, it would be the wrong way. Because I think the basis of everything is to find a good team.I've researched what it takes to make games very superficially before. After setting up the right team and allocating financial resources, I don't think it will be difficult to do what is necessary for things. I can allocate a few million dollars or more resources for this job. I just wanted to know if it would be difficult to build an experienced and willing team where I could achieve the desired result.

 

However, this is not a commitment,it is just a status roll call !

[+Erik 1,768]

30 minutes ago, names said:

I started by asking questions here, so you might have thought I wasn't being sincere. If I first make an offer to the 'SF 2 pc' rights holders and make a contract with them and I can't find a good team, it would be the wrong way. Because I think the basis of everything is to find a good team.I've researched what it takes to make games very superficially before. After setting up the right team and allocating financial resources, I don't think it will be difficult to do what is necessary for things. I can allocate a few million dollars or more resources for this job. I just wanted to know if it would be difficult to build an experienced and willing team where I could achieve the desired result.

 

However, this is not a commitment,it is just a status roll call !

You are attempting to find talent without a product. You don’t know what you’ll need at the basic of most basic levels so how can you look for a team? For example, do you know if you’ll need coders for C#, MSV, DirectX, Azure, GM, Unreal, etc.? Maybe TK wrote everything in some obscure portable language only he knows, then what? Are you going to need modelers and artists? Will you sell your new game yourself online? Are you going to need web designers and a full blown e-commerce backend? Will you need lawyers to handle licensing, contracts, copyrights, trademarks, employment? Will you need tax advisers and accountants? What country will you be releasing this in and how are you going to pay for this worldwide team of employees? The list is endless and it’s the reason I find your replies youthfully represented and disingenuous. You can’t produce a release putting the cart before the horse, it doesn’t work, it has never worked that way, ever.

There are no rolls to call. The best you can offer in your current state of development in a forum like this is to ask if there are people present. The answer to that question is unequivocally, YES. Take that for what it is, I think that’s as far as you will get. However, my opinion is based on the information supplied and I admit I am not always right.

Kindly,

[+daddyairplanes 9,700]

names,

to be honest unless you post something from a trade magazine/blog/forum announcing that Thirdwire has sold the rights to the SF2 series and showing that you are now the HMFIC over the stock version, you wont get too much interest in here

lots will chime in with how it would be great to add this or do that. but as i said earlier, everyone here does this on their schedule. the few that were willing to do it as a job have pretty much left SF2 and are doing it as a job elsewere (looking at you Sea Power team!)

best be would be to either get said rights to his IP, get a team pulled out of school, or both then ask. 

right now the thread does have the appearance of a stranger walking up and asking everyone in a established group if they want to do a pot luck dinner this week

that church group/work group/study group/ whatever might like the idea, but will be wondering who you are and what youre bringing to the table before they commit.

[+Erik 1,768]

5 minutes ago, daddyairplanes said:

…

HMFIC

…

looking at you Sea Power team!

…

if they want to do a pot luck dinner this week

…

There’s no such thing, there’s only an appearance of HMFIC

SPTeam, the shade is blinding 

Pot luck dinner, I’m dead 

[+daddyairplanes 9,700]

nothin but love for the SP team. the Polish member did swear on FB that it was not in fact the second coming of SF2

[+EricJ 4,094]

36 minutes ago, Erik said:

You are attempting to find talent without a product. You don’t know what you’ll need at the basic of most basic levels so how can you look for a team? For example, do you know if you’ll need coders for C#, MSV, DirectX, Azure, GM, Unreal, etc.? Maybe TK wrote everything in some obscure portable language only he knows, then what? Are you going to need modelers and artists? Will you sell your new game yourself online? Are you going to need web designers and a full blown e-commerce backend? Will you need lawyers to handle licensing, contracts, copyrights, trademarks, employment? Will you need tax advisers and accountants? What country will you be releasing this in and how are you going to pay for this worldwide team of employees? The list is endless and it’s the reason I find your replies youthfully represented and disingenuous. You can’t produce a release putting the cart before the horse, it doesn’t work, it has never worked that way, ever.

There are no rolls to call. The best you can offer in your current state of development in a forum like this is to ask if there are people present. The answer to that question is unequivocally, YES. Take that for what it is, I think that’s as far as you will get. However, my opinion is based on the information supplied and I admit I am not always right.

Kindly,

Exactly, trying to recruit a team without knowing the requirements isn't effective team building, you gotta find the niches and so on. I mean I've been reading this topic and not sure if it's even legit in my opinion. I mean we can all hope it's real and so on, but the way it's been brought up leaves little desire to get on board with it.

[+Erik 1,768]

17 minutes ago, EricJ said:

Exactly, trying to recruit a team without knowing the requirements isn't effective team building, you gotta find the niches and so on. 
…

Agree, it’s like saying I am going to build an office building. I see one office building I like, I’ve had some success with decorating the offices inside, and now I want to find a team to help me build it. You go out and find the best steel workers, masons, plumbers, electricians, and mechanical guys with a promise of something big to come when you buy the plans. You buy the plans and find out your building is designed with rammed mud-earth, solar power, on well water. You just wasted all your and their time for nothing.

[+EricJ 4,094]

1 minute ago, Erik said:

Agree, it’s like saying I am going to build an office building. I see one office building I like, I’ve had some success with decorating the offices inside, and now I want to find a team to help be build it. You go out and find the best steel workers, masons, plumbers, electricians, and mechanical guys with a promise of something big to come when you buy the plans. You buy the plans and find out your building is designed with rammed mud-earth, solar power, on well water. You just wasted all your and their time for nothing.

Yeah dude's gotta have the source files before making a move.

[names 8]

My main goal is to improve the product that already exists (SF 2). I would like to see much more realistic graphics, terrains, weather events,3d clouds, 3d trees, moving wind turbines, rippling water bodies, VR compatibility, many improvements such as adding telemetry.  Instead of buying the SF 2 pc rights completely, should I offer to make the improvements I want to the SF 2? (i.e., as a kind of sponsor or business partner). Basic things (such as company affairs, sales affairs and tax tracking) will belong to them. Because we will already have done business within the structure of a company but if I turn to a method where I will control things and contribute to improvements (such as producing land tiles, increasing the graph)? If I assume an acceptable part or all of the expenses. How about this situation?

[+daddyairplanes 9,700]

you wont do any of that without alot rework to the source code.

for that you need TK.

i'm very sure he's heard alot of offers like yours over the last 11 years (since he last patched ).

not saying dont try,  the answer to the unasked question is always no.

but you need to ask him, not us.

[names 8]

26 minutes ago, daddyairplanes said:

you wont do any of that without alot rework to the source code.

for that you need TK.

i'm very sure he's heard alot of offers like yours over the last 11 years (since he last patched ).

not saying dont try,  the answer to the unasked question is always no.

but you need to ask him, not us.

What does TK mean?

[FalconC45 158]

TK is the creator of the SF series and the sim European Air War and other classic gems

 

Falcon

[names 8]

3 minutes ago, FalconC45 said:

TK is the creator of the SF series and the sim European Air War and other classic gems

 

Falcon

How can I reach him ?

[+daddyairplanes 9,700]

https://www.thirdwire.com/support.htm

https://www.thirdwire.com/community.htm

 

----------------------------------------------

i must say tho, that asking who TK is rather highlights my observation of outsider asking the established group

it would be akin to a "Soldier" getting confused when you ask their MOS. every Soldier since WW2 can answer that one.....

Edited August 12 by daddyairplanes

[+Erik 1,768]

1 hour ago, names said:

My main goal is to improve the product that already exists (SF 2). I would like to see much more realistic graphics, terrains, weather events,3d clouds, 3d trees, moving wind turbines, rippling water bodies, VR compatibility, many improvements such as adding telemetry.  Instead of buying the SF 2 pc rights completely, should I offer to make the improvements I want to the SF 2? (i.e., as a kind of sponsor or business partner). Basic things (such as company affairs, sales affairs and tax tracking) will belong to them. Because we will already have done business within the structure of a company but if I turn to a method where I will control things and contribute to improvements (such as producing land tiles, increasing the graph)? If I assume an acceptable part or all of the expenses. How about this situation?

Unfortunately, I don't think this is going to work out like you think. I think we should drop this discussion entirely.

[names 8]

Thank you all, let's see if I can get a result.