Herr Prop-Wasche

Brief update: I am working on the FM, but have been slowed down by various side projects and real-life thingies. I have also been slowed by trying to decide how and what to work on first. The FM is a big deal and takes a lot of planning, modding, and testing. I think the first thing I will try and work on will be to reduce the dive speed for several of the aircraft. Currently, the Tripe and the Pup both can dive in excess of 255 mph. I would like to slow this down to the low 200's if possible to make them more consistent with the other aircraft. Again, does anyone have data on the dive speed of WWI aircraft? Actually, the first aircraft I will probably release for evaluation will be the N28. Stay tuned.

Hmm, the weight of the evidence seems to be that versions of my DM since 1.1 may be responsible for this problem. Sorry. It's weird, because all I did was change my pilot settings in Workshop to pilot never dies in order to test out the damage model because I was tired of creating new pilots all the time after getting killed! Unfortunately, I will have to reinstall OFF in order to reset my pilot settings and test the DM because I violated the first rule of modding and forgot to save a backup version of my aircraft folder--actually, I had a backup of the aircraft folder but lost it somewhere along the way. So, the fix will probably be a few days off. Again, I apologize for the inconvenience.

Currently, my FM files only work for QC battles--and I only released those to a few who volunteered for testing. I suspect that is what you have, von O. Right now, I am gathering data and studying NACA files and reading websites about aircraft performance. One thing I found that was interesting--the Camel in OFF apparently represents the 150 HP Bentley engine instead of the 130 Clerget, perhaps explaining the top horizontal speed of 116 in the game. Perhaps this is why it out runs the DrI so easily in the game. The good news is that I can probably create a 130 HP version and a 150 HP version. In fact, I can most likely do this for other planes, such as the 185 HP Fokker DVIIF and the 225 HP DVIIF. The player could then insert the correct plane according to the time period in the game. I may have also cracked the code for altering the .air files. It seems that editing the .air file with AirEdit will not allow the plane to be used in the campaign. HOWEVER, if you directly edit the hex code, it appears the plane WILL work in the campaign! The question now is whether I will have to manually change all 477 .air files via hex editing or simply be able to edit one and copy it to all of the other plane folders for that plane type. Editing the hex code will allow me to directly change several factors such as drag, G loading in turns, dive speed, etc. Fortunately, because of the excellent research and hard work of the developers, there is not a lot I will want to change on most of the planes. My main goals are to 1) reduce dive speed of some ot the planes in the game while increasing it for some of the others (BTW, does anyone have any good figures for how fast a typical WWI aeroplane should be able to dive? As of now, planes in OFF can achieve speeds between 155 and over 270 mph in a dive. Cutting back the throttle does also does not seem to have any effect ) 2) adjusting the top speed of several planes. 3) Adjusting the turning radius of some planes, particularly the Alb DIII's. 4) Reducing the climb rate somewhat for most of the planes. 5) Other?

Don't know when I will have a working beta. The FM is individual to each specific plane, so the mod will likely come out in dribs and drabs, with one or two planes at a time. Later, as i get more of a handle on it, I should be able to turn out more planes in less time, fingers crossed! In the meantime, do you (or anyone else) have any preferences to which planes you think are "most' in need of modding? I plan to first work with scouts and move on to the two-seaters later. My candidates, in no particular order are: Sopwith Tripe and Pup (excessive cruise and dive speeds) Albatros DIII (relatively poor turn performance, not appreciably better than DII, loses wings in turns instead of dives) Camel (too fast, too docile) N28 (snap spins, difficult to handle) Fokker EIII (too "draggy" poor climb (accurate) combined with poor dive (most likely inaccurate) May be very difficult to change. Fokker DrI (advanced project, needs improved turn, perhaps slightly reduced climb) Also difficult to change. Others? Should I post a poll?

As you can see from the thread title, I am pleased to announce that I will be working on an FM mod that WILL eventually be able to be used in the full OFF campaign. At first, this will largely be an experimental project to get an idea of how feasible it will be to make changes to the current FM without mucking it all up, but I hope to eventually be able to create a full, working FM mod for all of the planes currently available in OFF. There may be a few limitations to some aspects of the mod due to being able to work only with the .cfg files, but at least the changes will work in the campaign as well as in QC. I plan to keep note of my progress in this thread, as well as to hopefully stimulate (polite) conversation about what people would most like to see in a revised FM. Of course, since this is my project, any FM work that does come out of it will be my own interpretation of the flight model for the various aircraft we have, and it most likely will not agree with everyone else's interpretation for every single aircraft. Of course, anyone else is free to create their own FM if they find that they don't care too much for my efforts. I have already started some preliminary work on the new FM. As an example, I went ahead and created two separate FM's for the Sopwith Pup--a 80 HP version and a 110 HP version. Testing confirms that both models work in QC and the campaign--but not at the same time, as yet! Each model has slightly different performance characteristics, with the 80 HP version both slower in level flight and not as good a climber as the 110 version. I still have more adjustments I want to make to both models in order to distinguish them more from the stock FM models, but I will release them for testing not too long from now, assuming everything goes right. I welcome any questions, comments, advice, and even criticism about my work on this project, so don't be shy about speaking up. Also, if anyone would like to volunteer to be a guinea-pig, er, tester, be sure to let me know via a reply to this thread or by PM.

Oh, I should also point out that the article claims that the Sopwith Pup and the DrI had the best turn rates of any fighters of the war, with a theoretical (based on known information and mathematical calculations) turn rate of around 82 degrees per second. Following these are the Sopwith Triplane (just under 80 degrees/sec), the Snipe (79 degrees/sec), the Camel (76 degrees/sec), the DVII (75 degrees/sec), the Se5a (73.5 degrees/sec) and (surprisingly) the Spad XIII (just under 73 degrees/sec). Notably, the author claims that the DVIII Razor, with the 110 HP Oberursel, had a turn rate of only 69 degrees/sec, lower than the Pfalz DXII! He speculates that the turn performance of the Razor would likely have been much higher had more of them had access to the 145 HP Obersursel III engine.

Attached is a .pdf file containing an article about the calculated drag characteristics of several important WWI aircraft. The name of the article is Performance Analysis and Tactics of Fighter Aircraft from WWI by Scott Eberhardt. Following are a few quotes from the article. Comments? Here is the most interesting quote, for obvious reasons:

Good to hear from you, Mark. Hmm, are you sure that Airwrench resets the parasitic drag setting if you change it in the .cfg file? Personally, I have nevver seen it do that. Of course, whether it effects the air performance of the airplane in question is another story. I have noticed that changing the parasitic drag setting in .cfg seems to effect the top speed, max climb rate, and dive speed--at least as shown by Airwrench. On the other hand, changing the induced drag setting seems to have little effect on anything that I can see besides a very small change in top speed. Of course, one article on drag effects on WWI aircraft I read stated that induced drag is not much of a factor on planes with such high drag as most WWI crates had. The performance factor I would most like to see altered in OFF currently is the excessively high dive speeds of most of the planes. For example, the Sopwith Tripe has a dive speed of over 270 mph and does not suffer any ill effects from diving at this speed. The Tripes drag setting is around 56, I think. The lowest dive speed of any of the planes is around 155 mph for the EIII, but it has the highest drag setting in the game--a whopping 271*, I believe! Personally, I think the lowest drag setting for ANY of these planes should be in the 85-100 range, with the highest at around 175. Along the same topic, I was recently reading an article that argued that rotaries, with their large engines and cowlings, probably suffered from higher drag than "equivalent" aircraft with inline engines. Not to mention the high drag necessarily created by multiple wings, struts, bracing wires, poor airfoils, fuselage shape and length, and exposed landing gear, among other factors. I guess what I am (humbly) arguing for is that drag should be one of the first factors to consider when revising the FM, rather than just one of many that are used to adjust some of the more troublesome aspects of the flight model of each individual aircraft. * edited to show correct drag setting of 271 for EIII.

In the immortal words of your Avatar, WM, "Woof, woof!"

Somebody has to say it, so it might as well be me: what are your system specs? Is your system home-built or a Dell, etc? If a name brand, tell us which it is and how old it is. Also, what CPU are you using, AMD or Intel? What model and speed? Does it have an after-market fan/cooler or is it the one that came with the computer? What brand and model is your video card? Who is the manufacturer of the motherboard? Again, give us the brand and model, if you know what it is. Finally, brand of memory sticks and how many Gigs. While you are at it, tell us the name and power rating of your power supply. Any (or none) of the above information might prove helpful in discovering the source of your problems.

Some effects (tracer effects) have had their mod incorporated directly into the game, while other effects (different colored flak for Allied and German guns) that were originally in a 3rd party mod have seen the devs adopt the effect without directly using the 3d party mod. If the devs would like to consider using either my damage mod or some of the FM ideas and tweaks I have come up with to this point, they certainly have my permission to do so.

The "dummy" pylons sounds like the best idea for reducing the speed difference between human and AI flown aircraft. Winston, could you give a brief tutorial on adding such pylons or send me a PM regarding same? There are several .cfg edits that can alter the speed, climb, and turn of various aircraft, but there are too many to list and they all tend to interact with one another, so tweaking the FM can take quite a while. I've done some of this in the past, but because of the problem getting .air file changes to work in the campaign I would basically have to start over again working only with the .cfg files. Following are just some settings in the .cfg file that can effect speed, climb, etc: Estimated RPM's Propellor Gear Ratio Climb Weight Turn Weight Parasitic drag Engine thrust ratio Propellor thrust ratio etc. Then you have to play around with these and other settings and test them in QC battles.

I also have the problem of intermittent, but continuing, CTD's when running the OFF campaign. System specs are AMD X2 2.3 GHz 4500+ CPU with a NVidia 8600 video card. I have found the only solution that reduces (but does not completely eliminate) the CTD problem is not to overclock the CPU and to slightly overclock the video card.

Without sounding too harsh, the parasitic drag settings in the .air files for most of the aircraft in OFF are, well, "off." For example, the drag for the DrI is set lower than the drag for the Spad XIII. Unfortunately, you can't edit the .air file and still be able to use the plane in the campaign (it still works in QC, however). There is an indirect way to alter the parasitic drag in the .cfg file, but it is relatively crude compared to changing the .air file setting. I sincerely hope the devs will take a look at revising the .air file drag settings for P4 or in a "realistic FM pack" addition sometime in the future. I would also like the recovery from most spins to be a little more difficult than it is now currently. Those are my only real 'complaints" about the FM. Considering all the real life factors that go into a flight model and the inherent limitations of the CFS3 engine, the OFF devs have done an outstanding job overall, IMO.

A beautiful piece of craftmanship. Did you notice how close the pilot sits to the butt of the guns?

NB stands for North Bridge controller. It's a chip that controls memory functions, etc. and can get almost as hot as the CPU, but frequently does not have a fan on it. You can usually find NB heatsinks and fans for sale at various computer stores. Memory settings and timings can be found in the BIOS when you start the computer. Look for DRAM settings or something similar in the BIOS menus.

I don't think that my HPWDM2.3 is to blame, but I will take a look into it. During development and testing, I set my realism settings to pilot never dies. Perhaps I should have reset it to Hard/Historical after I was finished testing??

Thanks for the report. I'll take a look at the Pup and some of the Nieuport's tonight. The solution looks like a combination of changes to the damage model (DM), as well as some changes to the flight model (FM).

It seems as long as I only edit the .cfg file, the changes will work in both QC and the campaign. Changing the .air file is what seems to create the conflict. For the most part, not being able to edit the .air files seems to have no major effects on the flight characteristics of the aircraft. The only major problem is that I cannot directly change the amount of parasitic drag set for each aircraft type in the .air file. This is unfortunate, because the drag setting is the major factor that controls the cruising speed and maximum dive speed of each aircraft type. This is why the Tripe has a level flight speed of 125 mph and has the fastest maximum dive speed in the stock game! I can alter this a bit by editing the .cfg file, but editing the .air file would be better. I still think there are some changes I can make to the .cfg file that will enable me to adjust the turn radius, cruising speed, and stall behavior of some of the 'problem" aircraft in OFF, at least to some extent. My ultimate hope is that the devs will reconsider the parasitic drag settings of some of the aircraft in OFF, like the Tripe for instance, in P4.

Well, the N16 was a notorious under-performer compared to the N11 and reportedly nose-heavy, so I am hesitant to mess with it too much. Let's just say it's low on my list of FM improvements at the moment. I want to start out slow with obvious fixes, like the Albs "backwards sliding" problem first. For others who are interested in trying my Albs fix, here is the zip file. This only changes the sliding problem and does not address any other FM issues at this time. Also remember you have to use JSGME in order to install the fix.

Sorry to hear of your 'puter problems, Olham. looks like we are stuck in the same proverbial boat! WM--glad to hear you are sorted. Cheers!

Good to hear from you, vonOben! Let me know how you like the update. Olham, I think the Pup and Nieuport problem is an FM problem similar to the Albs problem. If so, it probably can be fixed with a simple change to the empty weight CoG setting in the .cfg file. If anyone is interested in testing the same change to the CoG setting for the Albatros series of planes, just reply to this thread. Note: you will need JSGME to install the mod. This FM fix WILL work in the campaign, but it is still in the preliminary phase. Basically, the change makes the Albs slightly more "nose heavy" by moving the center of gravity forward an inch or two. The AI seems to fly a little better and doesn't hang on the aeroplane's prop so much with this change. Any effects on human pilots seems to be minor, but additional feedback from other humans would help.

HPWDM 2.3 update View File The 2.3 update for my DM is now ready! What was once a fairly minor change has morphed into something a little larger. Here are the major highlights: 2.3 --Hit points for elevator and rudder cables reduced in all aircraft. --Probability of "hit" to aileron cables reduced in all aircraft. Hit points on aileron cables also reduced. --Hit points for observer/rear-gunner reduced slightly. --Hit points for central fuel tank increased slightly in several aircraft, particularly Nieuport's, DR1, and DH5. --Rate of fuel loss due to hits to central fuel tank adjusted in all aircraft. --Adjusted frequency of oil leaks from damage to nose and oil reservoir in several aircraft. --Spad's, DH2's, SE5a, and all Albatros and Nieuport types somewhat less likely to catch fire. Roland, Hannover, and DFW somewhat more likely to catch fire. --Probability of "hit" to left and right gear reduced slightly in all aircraft, hopefully reducing number of crashes due to collapsed landing gear just a bit. --Hit points to wings and wingtips of Fokker Triplane reduced slightly. --Corrected error in DH2_early models which caused central fuel tank to be only half-strength. Submitter Herr Prop-Wasche Submitted 10/24/2010 Category Aircraft Models

New DM sent for approval! Look for it in the downloads section. The update is meant to replace previous updates. Here is a look at the additions in the new update: